Political Crossfire Forums

[Gaius]

I think its fair to say that the Catholic Church has ruined many lives. Take some of their idiotic dogmas for one thing.

Limbo - where is this mentioned in the bible?

Contraception - Where is this mentioned in the bible?

The Ascension of Mary into heaven?

There are many, many more. I was raised a catholic in a catholic area. Freethinkers aren't appreciated much there.

Besides, we can't use the bible as a proper source as the Old Testament has been altered for political means and the new testament is dodgey at best.

[Todd D.]

Quote: I think its fair to say that the Catholic Church has ruined many lives. Take some of their idiotic dogmas for one thing.
Nice to know that we're starting off unbiased.

Quote: Limbo - where is this mentioned in the bible?
Not a Catholic belief.

Quote: Contraception - Where is this mentioned in the bible?
Where is Crack Cocaine mentioned in the Bible? It's not specifically mentioned but it can be extrapolated from teachings and lessons from the Bible.

Quote: The Ascension of Mary into heaven?
Not in the Bible. Not contradicted by the Bible either, though.

Quote: There are many, many more. I was raised a catholic in a catholic area. Freethinkers aren't appreciated much there.
I'm sorry that your personal experience wasn't beneficial, but I disagree that freethinkers aren't appreciated there.

Quote: Besides, we can't use the bible as a proper source as the Old Testament has been altered for political means and the new testament is dodgey at best.
Why then would you ask for biblical support if you weren't going to accept it anyway?

[Gilbert1908]

Gaius wrote: I think its fair to say that the Catholic Church has ruined many lives. Take some of their idiotic dogmas for one thing.

Limbo - where is this mentioned in the bible?

Contraception - Where is this mentioned in the bible?

The Ascension of Mary into heaven?

There are many, many more. I was raised a catholic in a catholic area. Freethinkers aren't appreciated much there.

Besides, we can't use the bible as a proper source as the Old Testament has been altered for political means and the new testament is dodgey at best.

Todd addressed you errors let me address the subject of "free thinkers" by which I assume you mean dissenters or opposing views.

I need only use the Jesuits as the prime example with not only Catholicism but with the Orders of the Priesthood itself. If you are unaware of Georgetown University, Notre Dame, Boston College and the reputation for critical thought within such great Catholic Universities then you were not paying attention.

And anyone who knows anything about the Jesuits knows where they fit within the TRADITION of Catholic debate.

It was that very aspect of Catholic thinking that in fact brought me BACK to the Church I abandoned when I too saw myself as "limited" by an oppressive and restrictive set of "rules" set down by a controlling God.

When in fact it was I who was limiting myself by viewing God as a subject of my intellect, thereby defining His love by the selfish expectations of my desires.

[Ch33kY]

Gaius wrote: I think its fair to say that the Catholic Church has ruined many lives.

:lol:

Lovely way to start off. Couldn't agree more.

Limbo and the like were in Dante's The Divine Comedy (which includes Dante's Inferno). I think he used biblical references to make a particular detailed account of the afterlife (hell, purgatory and heaven) which has characterised Western-Christianity's conception of the afterlife.

Look up Dante Alighieri for more information concerning afterlife in the Christian doctrine, or search for pixies, goblins and unicorns if you are interested in religion.

:-D:-D

[Gaius]

I referred to the bible in that that is what all the Chritian churches base their legitimicy off, despite it been one huge altered series of books and fantasy novels.

I regard Chritianity as an admirable philosophy in which to lead ones life, but is there a God? I don't know but what I do know is that the Pope is certainly not Gods 'representative on earth' and neither is he 'infallible'

The Church has some seriously whacky problems and instead of lynching me instead you should look to adress these problems rather than conveniently ignore them.

[Gilbert1908]

Gaius wrote: I referred to the bible in that that is what all the Chritian churches base their legitimicy off, despite it been one huge altered series of books and fantasy novels.

I regard Chritianity as an admirable philosophy in which to lead ones life, but is there a God? I don't know but what I do know is that the Pope is certainly not Gods 'representative on earth' and neither is he 'infallible'

The Church has some seriously whacky problems and instead of lynching me instead you should look to adress these problems rather than conveniently ignore them.

Pointing out obvious errors such as the ones you added here that the Pope is God's "representative" what ever that means or that Catholics believe a Pope is infallible I would assume you find helpful.

Your belief or disbelief is your own bible or Christianity or otherwise, but if you are attempting to represent a Christian or in this case Catholic belief I and I assume Todd simply would perfer that you be accurate and not in obvious error.

I am not seeking your lynching nor am I unaware or ignoring the problems which exist in my Church in fact I am very active in attempting to help repair them in many instances.

Your assumption of both the factual nature of the beliefs or Catholicism and the nature of the Catholics is lacking, and if you wish not to have that pointed out I would suggest that it is you ignoring what you are unaware of.

[fourtysixandtwo]

Ch33kY wrote: Gaius wrote: I think its fair to say that the Catholic Church has ruined many lives.

:lol:

Lovely way to start off. Couldn't agree more.

Limbo and the like were in Dante's The Divine Comedy (which includes Dante's Inferno). I think he used biblical references to make a particular detailed account of the afterlife (hell, purgatory and heaven) which has characterised Western-Christianity's conception of the afterlife.

Look up Dante Alighieri for more information concerning afterlife in the Christian doctrine, or search for pixies, goblins and unicorns if you are interested in religion.

:-D:-D

Your kidding, right?

[Lumina]

Gilbert1908 wrote:

Todd addressed you errors let me address the subject of "free thinkers" by which I assume you mean dissenters or opposing views.

I need only use the Jesuits as the prime example with not only Catholicism but with the Orders of the Priesthood itself. If you are unaware of Georgetown University, Notre Dame, Boston College and the reputation for critical thought within such great Catholic Universities then you were not paying attention.

And anyone who knows anything about the Jesuits knows where they fit within the TRADITION of Catholic debate.

It was that very aspect of Catholic thinking that in fact brought me BACK to the Church I abandoned when I too saw myself as "limited" by an oppressive and restrictive set of "rules" set down by a controlling God.

When in fact it was I who was limiting myself by viewing God as a subject of my intellect, thereby defining His love by the selfish expectations of my desires.

I couldn't have expressed it as you did, Gilbert, but as I grew in faith, I realized that I too was defining God through the selfish, shallow expectations of my desires.

I have always found fascinating the fact that although Jesus was literate, He chose not to leave writings. Instead, His Church was founded upon the living Word, His disciples. We are all so blessed that they chose, decades later in many cases, to write...but the early Church was sustained by the "beloved," the Body of Christ.

[Gilbert1908]

Lumina wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote:

Todd addressed you errors let me address the subject of "free thinkers" by which I assume you mean dissenters or opposing views.

I need only use the Jesuits as the prime example with not only Catholicism but with the Orders of the Priesthood itself. If you are unaware of Georgetown University, Notre Dame, Boston College and the reputation for critical thought within such great Catholic Universities then you were not paying attention.

And anyone who knows anything about the Jesuits knows where they fit within the TRADITION of Catholic debate.

It was that very aspect of Catholic thinking that in fact brought me BACK to the Church I abandoned when I too saw myself as "limited" by an oppressive and restrictive set of "rules" set down by a controlling God.

When in fact it was I who was limiting myself by viewing God as a subject of my intellect, thereby defining His love by the selfish expectations of my desires.

I couldn't have expressed it as you did, Gilbert, but as I grew in faith, I realized that I too was defining God through the selfish, shallow expectations of my desires.

I have always found fascinating the fact that although Jesus was literate, He chose not to leave writings. Instead, His Church was founded upon the living Word, His disciples. We are all so blessed that they chose, decades later in many cases, to write...but the early Church was sustained by the "beloved," the Body of Christ.

"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man." Chesterton

[Plodder]

Quote: I don't know but what I do know is that the Pope is certainly not Gods 'representative on earth' and neither is he 'infallible'
From a catholic point of view why do you say that?

It clearly says in scripture that Peter was the Rock on which the Church would be built on. That kinda make him leader. And as for infallibility, Jesus told Peter that the gates of hell wouldnot prevail against him. I take that to mean that what Peter did, it would only help the Church grow.

[mojo]

Plodder wrote: Quote: I don't know but what I do know is that the Pope is certainly not Gods 'representative on earth' and neither is he 'infallible'
From a catholic point of view why do you say that?

It clearly says in scripture that Peter was the Rock on which the Church would be built on. That kinda make him leader. And as for infallibility, Jesus told Peter that the gates of hell wouldnot prevail against him. I take that to mean that what Peter did, it would only help the Church grow.

The church of Jesus Christ was infallible not Peter himself. Not necessarily the Catholic Church or any other church for that matter.

[perdidochas]

Gaius wrote: I think its fair to say that the Catholic Church has ruined many lives. Take some of their idiotic dogmas for one thing.

Limbo - where is this mentioned in the bible?

How has limbo ruined lives? People in limbo are awaiting heaven. All the people who lived good lives between the time of Adam and Eve and the death of Christ, are in Limbo. Limbo is a state of happiness, and will be replaced by going to heaven at the final judgement.

From the link below:In Matt. 8:11, it is spoken of under the figure of a banquet "with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of Heaven" (cf. Luke 8:29; 14:15), and in Matt. 25:10 under the figure of a marriage feast to which the prudent virgins are admitted, while in the parable of Lazarus and Dives it is called "Abraham's bosom" (Luke 16:22) and in Christ's words to the penitent thief on Calvary the name paradise is used (Luke 23:43).

Limbo

Gaius wrote: Contraception - Where is this mentioned in the bible? Don't know the verse, but in the story of Onan

Gaius wrote: The Ascension of Mary into heaven?

It's not Mary's ascension into heaven, but her assumption. Ascension implies it was her own power that did this. Catholics don't claim that. We claim that Jesus pulled her body into heaven, which is a different matter. Not in the Bible, as Mary was alive when the Bible was finalized. It is part of tradition. One piece of evidence for it is that no relic of part of Mary's body has ever been claimed.

Gaius wrote: There are many, many more. I was raised a catholic in a catholic area. Freethinkers aren't appreciated much there.

Besides, we can't use the bible as a proper source as the Old Testament has been altered for political means and the new testament is dodgey at best.

Besides contraception, which I can understand the argument about, how have any of the other dogmas "ruined many lives." Evidence of the ruination of one life would be a start....

[perdidochas]

Gaius wrote: I referred to the bible in that that is what all the Chritian churches base their legitimicy off, despite it been one huge altered series of books and fantasy novels.

I regard Chritianity as an admirable philosophy in which to lead ones life, but is there a God? I don't know but what I do know is that the Pope is certainly not Gods 'representative on earth' and neither is he 'infallible'

The Church has some seriously whacky problems and instead of lynching me instead you should look to adress these problems rather than conveniently ignore them.

Why don't you illuminate us, and tell us about the "whacky problems"?

[Plodder]

Quote: The church of Jesus Christ was infallible not Peter himself. Not necessarily the Catholic Church or any other church for that matter. That does not make sense from a rational point of view. Jesus told peter that he was the authority and leader of his church. If someone had a dogmatic questions, Peter would make a descision on what was right and waht was wrong. For example, in 49 AD Peter called toegther the Council of Jerusalem where all of the Apostles or their sucessors were present. The topic was if Christians were bound by the little laws of leviticus or not. Peter decided that no, we were not subject to those rules , since the law had been fulfilled.