Political Crossfire Forums

Addison · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 126

Here is a subject I have been asked by my congregation, especially the yutes, often. Indulge the question for discussion, and I will provide my own answer at a later date.

Through out the Bible, the Hebrews are known as the Chosen People. Through out history, however, we see so many other civilizations with, presumably, no knowledge of the Hebrew's God. Especially on the Americas, which were crossed at the Russian-Alaskan landbridge thousands of years ago, how would they be able to know God. Since we are all God's children, shouldn't he love us equally and not have a Chosen people? Therefore, how is the seemingly flagrant disregard for the other civilizations who did not recieve any small sign that God exists justified? Shouldn't all civilizations and people, regardless of ancestral sins or forebearers iniquities, be given the chance to know and love God?
Discuss, as you please.

Shortly I will give my own answer, which I derived from scriptues and logic.

Addison · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 126

Any one?

alclarkey · Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 1360

All those who accept God are God's children. The Israelites of the Old Testament followed God's laws so they therefore were his children. The new testament changed that. Anyone who repents of their sins and accepts Jesus into their heart will go to heaven.

Addison · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 126

What about the hundreds of civilizations who were so geographically isolated that they never heard of the Israelites or their God at all? They never had a chance? How is this justified?

Cato · Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 1274 Location: Ottawa, ON

Judaism, prior to the First Temple period, was henotheistic (many gods, but one central). You see, Yahweh had, among the gods, 'chosen' the people of Israel. He was to protect them from the outside gods of foreign peoples. With the centralization of Israel, and the rise of king's Samuel and David, the face of Judaism was greatly changed. A movement scholars refer to as the 'Yahweh alonists' appearers at this time. This movement defined the history of Israel, and, amazingly, that of the western world by and large.

It is important to understand that the religious movements we know today did not just appear as they are. They are the products of a complex historical dialectic, and should be understood in that light. Yahweh was never originally alone in the cosmos; this is a later development. This is why there are discrepancies in the Bible -- it is a historical and cultural dialog, a conversation between times and people's, not a linear theological pronouncement.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

Addison · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 126

I think you might be confusing the fact that the central God, Yahweh, had something like 102 other names. That is why, in Scripture, the titles God Almighty, the Lord Your God, the Lord, God, etc. appear. They are simply translated differently. But, who knows, I never did study Hebrew history in extreme depth. However, if you could post some links of your sources, I would be obliged and eager to read them.

Cato · Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 1274 Location: Ottawa, ON

Difficult to do. I'm actually studying this at university. But, I assure you, I am not confusing Yahweh with his names. The ancient conception of gods was that they were tied to people. In fact, when one people conquered another, it was understood that the war was won on two fronts: the physical and metaphysical.

My course deals with analyzing the Bible historically and text-critically. To be sure, if you look at the work with a discerning mind, you'll find that certain things stand out. Such as, for instance, the dual creation stories of Genesis, and the reinterpretation of the Mesopotamian myth of the great flood. The former we call a 'redactional seam', and indicates editing. The latter is a clear adaptation of an older myth. Studying the Bible critically, you begin to see the thread-work that holds it together. In no way can this work be attributed to one linear movement -- of that I am sure. It's a confusing work because each new generation is refitting and reworking the myths of the older generations to suit the status-quo.

It would indeed be strange if such a work were to stay static over so many generations. It was only fully compiled with Ezra and the Second Temple period!

Addison · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 126

Much of the editing can be attributed to short shelf-life for written materials and the need for re-writing with additional information. But, on the whole, I would agree with you. I read a book about the culture assimilation of other civilizations and the adaption of their mythologies into the Greek religions. Quite interesting.

Cato · Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 1274 Location: Ottawa, ON

Quote: Much of the editing can be attributed to short shelf-life for written materials and the need for re-writing with additional information.

Indeed. The only surviving papyri documents are from desert caches, where extreme heat has preserved them.

Addison · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 126

Nag Hammadi, etc.

If ever you can find sources or books I could read about the aforementioned topics, please PM me. If you have the time, that is.

Cato · Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 1274 Location: Ottawa, ON

I would be happy to.

Addison · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 126

Much obliged.

libertynow · Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 56

Addison wrote: What about the hundreds of civilizations who were so geographically isolated that they never heard of the Israelites or their God at all? They never had a chance? How is this justified?

Justified...in this context kinda sounds like 'fair'. On the one hand, who is to tell a god that he has to be fair? On the other hand, why should a god necessarily reflect human qualities and emotions and needs (being loved, etc.).
My personal opinion agrees with your question...
Sometime in my childhood I became aware of other religions besides Christianity, and when I asked around in the Christian community the words "damned to hell" came up often for those of other faiths. No preaching violence or anything extreme, but more of a pity (poor misguided fools). I thought this grossly unfair because it is up to god where you're born and how you're raised. There is no freewill in that. Since different cultures reinforce their own beliefs, how does one resolve this quandary?
a) god wants you to be whatever religion you are raised into,
b) god doesn't care what religion you are,
c) there is no god,
d) god wants you to find christianity on your own, but makes it harder for some people than others for no reason you can know
e) god isn't fair
f) none of the above

I have no problem with the concept of a god, just the dogmatic baggage that comes with the standard memes available, including the notion of a chosen people.

Biggity Boom-Boom · Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 446 Location: The Event Horizon

Abiding by the natural and eternal laws, which are known by way of your own Heart, not through wordy books or scriptures, means you have chosen God.

God is the Spirit in all things and IS all things.

Listen to your Heart.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 8272

Organized religion in and of itself is something that cannot be explained. Yet, the idea that one peoples are favored over everyone else is something that I cannot believe. I like to believe in a world where everyone is equal, and not even "God" (quotations because I personally do not follow an organized religion) can change that.

Whether something is or isn't doesn't really matter. All that matters is your opinion on the issue, and what you believe to be the truth.