Political Crossfire Forums

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

EWTN Is Propagandist Garbage. I don't know if many here have seen this brainwashing garbage or not, and I'd like to hear what you think...

So's the 700 club...

So's all MSM...

Todd D. · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject:

...it's the Catholic Television Network. I'm not sure what you were expecting here. I'm not sure I'd call it so much "Propoganda" anymore than I would call BET or Lifetime "propoganda". I think it's more a case of "Target Demographics".

ricarn · Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 45 Location: Geneseo, NY

I wouldn't say that it's propaganda. As Todd said it has a particular demographic that views it. It's not spreading lies or brainwashing anyone, it's just religious media.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

They breed lies, and try to make their listeners believe that all morality is wholly and universally objective, and not subjective, and that's collectivistic religious propaganda, period. They used those (Morality is Objective a never Subjective) exact words when I was watching today.

adrenalinejunkie · Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 398 Location: Plains, Kansas

EugenicHegemony wrote: They breed lies, and try to make their listeners believe that all morality is wholly and universally objective, and not subjective, and that's collectivistic religious propaganda, period. They used those (Morality is Objective a never Subjective) exact words when I was watching today.

And why is that a lie? Your evidence please that it is an actual lie and not simply another opinion....

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

adrenalinejunkie wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: They breed lies, and try to make their listeners believe that all morality is wholly and universally objective, and not subjective, and that's collectivistic religious propaganda, period. They used those (Morality is Objective a never Subjective) exact words when I was watching today.

And why is that a lie? Your evidence please that it is an actual lie and not simply another opinion....

Easy, they aren't preaching any of this as their "opinion" they're preaching this as absolute law.

adrenalinejunkie · Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 398 Location: Plains, Kansas

EugenicHegemony wrote: adrenalinejunkie wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: They breed lies, and try to make their listeners believe that all morality is wholly and universally objective, and not subjective, and that's collectivistic religious propaganda, period. They used those (Morality is Objective a never Subjective) exact words when I was watching today.

And why is that a lie? Your evidence please that it is an actual lie and not simply another opinion....

Easy, they aren't preaching any of this as their "opinion" they're preaching this as absolute law.

Yes, that is their opinion. Their opinion is morality is objective in the same way my opinion is the earth is very old. In fact, they have a basis for their opinion based on the existence of God, and what God has said through the Bible as they interpret it. To them, morality is objective because God sets the morality. You believe morality is subjective based on the fact people have different ideas of morality?

If so then, you're right and that would be true, but the Catholics aren't disagreeing with that. They are saying God makes the right and wrong ultimately whether we want to believe it or not, whether people want to follow it or not, and everyone will have to give God an account when their life is over, and while the atheist will be surprised, he'll still stand before God. It's their opinion, their view. That's why I wouldn't call it a lie.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

adrenalinejunkie wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: adrenalinejunkie wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: They breed lies, and try to make their listeners believe that all morality is wholly and universally objective, and not subjective, and that's collectivistic religious propaganda, period. They used those (Morality is Objective a never Subjective) exact words when I was watching today.

And why is that a lie? Your evidence please that it is an actual lie and not simply another opinion....

Easy, they aren't preaching any of this as their "opinion" they're preaching this as absolute law.

Yes, that is their opinion. Their opinion is morality is objective in the same way my opinion is the earth is very old. In fact, they have a basis for their opinion based on the existence of God, and what God has said through the Bible as they interpret it. To them, morality is objective because God sets the morality. You believe morality is subjective based on the fact people have different ideas of morality?

If so then, you're right and that would be true, but the Catholics aren't disagreeing with that. They are saying God makes the right and wrong ultimately whether we want to believe it or not, whether people want to follow it or not, and everyone will have to give God an account when their life is over, and while the atheist will be surprised, he'll still stand before God. It's their opinion, their view. That's why I wouldn't call it a lie.

Am I wrong in that "belief", and do people not agree on what's moral and immoral. Hell, some think Halloween is immoral, and it's not objective, and never will be.

OK, I won't call it a "lie" then it's all conjecture, and I think they like to call that "faith". Sorry, it doesn't fly with me and other individualist independent thinking/questioning people...

As long as their "faith" stays private, and out of others lives, then I really don't care...

adrenalinejunkie · Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 398 Location: Plains, Kansas

EugenicHegemony wrote:
As long as their "faith" stays private, and out of others lives, then I really don't care...

Ah, you pretty much okay with the Catholics. It's evangelicals like me that will drive you crazy on that one. :wink:

And no you're not wrong to say people have different ideas of morality. Of course they do. A faith based person like a Catholic or me, believes that regardless of what anyone believes, God sets the standard for morality. So if me and God disagree on right or wrong, well He wins. And even if I really think I'm right and He's wrong, doesn't matter cuz He makes the rules, and will judge the world.

So naturally I want to convince you to believe in Jesus so you don't get judged!

Yeah, I'm hopeless, I know.

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5578 Location: Dreamland, NC

EugenicHegemony wrote: adrenalinejunkie wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: adrenalinejunkie wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: They breed lies, and try to make their listeners believe that all morality is wholly and universally objective, and not subjective, and that's collectivistic religious propaganda, period. They used those (Morality is Objective a never Subjective) exact words when I was watching today.

And why is that a lie? Your evidence please that it is an actual lie and not simply another opinion....

Easy, they aren't preaching any of this as their "opinion" they're preaching this as absolute law.

Yes, that is their opinion. Their opinion is morality is objective in the same way my opinion is the earth is very old. In fact, they have a basis for their opinion based on the existence of God, and what God has said through the Bible as they interpret it. To them, morality is objective because God sets the morality. You believe morality is subjective based on the fact people have different ideas of morality?

If so then, you're right and that would be true, but the Catholics aren't disagreeing with that. They are saying God makes the right and wrong ultimately whether we want to believe it or not, whether people want to follow it or not, and everyone will have to give God an account when their life is over, and while the atheist will be surprised, he'll still stand before God. It's their opinion, their view. That's why I wouldn't call it a lie.

Am I wrong in that "belief", and do people not agree on what's moral and immoral. Hell, some think Halloween is immoral, and it's not objective, and never will be.

OK, I won't call it a "lie" then it's all conjecture, and I think they like to call that "faith". Sorry, it doesn't fly with me and other individualist independent thinking/questioning people...

As long as their "faith" stays private, and out of others lives, then I really don't care...

Morality itself isn't subjective it is our interpretation that is subjective.

Todd D. · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:51 am Post subject:

Quote: OK, I won't call it a "lie" then it's all conjecture, and I think they like to call that "faith". Sorry, it doesn't fly with me and other individualist independent thinking/questioning people...
What? Just because you are thinking and questioning, you can't have faith? That's funny.

Quote: As long as their "faith" stays private, and out of others lives, then I really don't care...
Um....it is staying private. Nobody is forcing you to watch EWTN.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

soldierofchrist wrote: Todd D. wrote: ...it's the Catholic Television Network. I'm not sure what you were expecting here. I'm not sure I'd call it so much "Propoganda" anymore than I would call BET or Lifetime "propoganda". I think it's more a case of "Target Demographics".
Agreed. Sorry Eugenic that a Catholic TV station doesn't pander to your particular belief system. Perhaps MTV is more suited for your level of understand? :roll:

Who cares what they pander to it's all conjecture, and they pass it of as collective law.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

politicalmojo wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: adrenalinejunkie wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: adrenalinejunkie wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: They breed lies, and try to make their listeners believe that all morality is wholly and universally objective, and not subjective, and that's collectivistic religious propaganda, period. They used those (Morality is Objective a never Subjective) exact words when I was watching today.

And why is that a lie? Your evidence please that it is an actual lie and not simply another opinion....

Easy, they aren't preaching any of this as their "opinion" they're preaching this as absolute law.

Yes, that is their opinion. Their opinion is morality is objective in the same way my opinion is the earth is very old. In fact, they have a basis for their opinion based on the existence of God, and what God has said through the Bible as they interpret it. To them, morality is objective because God sets the morality. You believe morality is subjective based on the fact people have different ideas of morality?

If so then, you're right and that would be true, but the Catholics aren't disagreeing with that. They are saying God makes the right and wrong ultimately whether we want to believe it or not, whether people want to follow it or not, and everyone will have to give God an account when their life is over, and while the atheist will be surprised, he'll still stand before God. It's their opinion, their view. That's why I wouldn't call it a lie.

Am I wrong in that "belief", and do people not agree on what's moral and immoral. Hell, some think Halloween is immoral, and it's not objective, and never will be.

OK, I won't call it a "lie" then it's all conjecture, and I think they like to call that "faith". Sorry, it doesn't fly with me and other individualist independent thinking/questioning people...

As long as their "faith" stays private, and out of others lives, then I really don't care...

Morality itself isn't subjective it is our interpretation that is subjective.

That sounds good, and it's not true. During the Christian Crusades their morality was wholly subjective, and that supposedly came from God. Murder in the name of your pathetic God. Now the U.S. government uses that same pathetic excuse, In God we kill...I mean trust. same as the Radical Muslims, and their past crusades and present dealings.

If a tree falls in the woods and no ones around, does anybody hear it? There is no (so called) morality without man, and it's all subjective. There is nothing objective about morality; it's all conjecture.

Todd D. · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject:

Quote: That sounds good, and it's not true. During the Christian Crusades their morality was wholly subjective, and that supposedly came from God.
No, that would fall safely in the "interpretation of morality" category.

Quote: Murder in the name of your pathetic God.
Was this really necessary?

Quote: Now the U.S. government uses that same pathetic excuse, In God we kill...I mean trust. same as the Radical Muslims, and their past crusades and present dealings.
I don't know of any war that we are currently involved in that is done in the name of Christianity, but that's besides the point. Again, that is INTERPRETATIONS of morality.

Quote: If a tree falls in the woods and no ones around, does anybody hear it?
That's not how the expression goes. It's "If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around, does it make a sound?" The answer is, of course, yes.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

Todd D. wrote: Quote: OK, I won't call it a "lie" then it's all conjecture, and I think they like to call that "faith". Sorry, it doesn't fly with me and other individualist independent thinking/questioning people...
What? Just because you are thinking and questioning, you can't have faith? That's funny.

Quote: As long as their "faith" stays private, and out of others lives, then I really don't care...
Um....it is staying private. Nobody is forcing you to watch EWTN.

When you follow a specific line of thought (holy book) then your thinking is done for you. Anyone can have faith, and conjecture taken as collective law isn't independent thought. By divine definition, you're thought and morality is collective by religious design.

I don't care about EWTN or their private programming; it's the after affect, and the merging of religious law in other's lives that has no place or no right.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

Todd D. wrote: Quote: That sounds good, and it's not true. During the Christian Crusades their morality was wholly subjective, and that supposedly came from God.
No, that would fall safely in the "interpretation of morality" category.

Quote: Murder in the name of your pathetic God.
Was this really necessary?

Quote: Now the U.S. government uses that same pathetic excuse, In God we kill...I mean trust. same as the Radical Muslims, and their past crusades and present dealings.
I don't know of any war that we are currently involved in that is done in the name of Christianity, but that's besides the point. Again, that is INTERPRETATIONS of morality.

Quote: If a tree falls in the woods and no ones around, does anybody hear it?
That's not how the expression goes. It's "If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around, does it make a sound?" The answer is, of course, yes.

The Crusades was not said to be any "interpretation". It was divinity in action. If it came from God then how can it be an "interpretation", and not an objective absolute?

Yes it was.

Without man there is no (so called) morality, and everything is an interpretation including religious conjectural absolute morality.

Quote:
"God Ordered Me to End Tyranny in Afghanistan and Iraq"
~George Bush

Todd D. · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject:

Quote: The Crusades was not said to be any "interpretation". It was divinity in action. If it came from God then how can it be an "interpretation", and not an objective absolute?
IF it came from God. Most agree today that it did not.

Quote: "God Ordered Me to End Tyranny in Afghanistan and Iraq"
~George Bush
Never actually said by Bush. The source that supposedly was quoted has flat out said that he never said that.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

Todd D. wrote: Quote: The Crusades was not said to be any "interpretation". It was divinity in action. If it came from God then how can it be an "interpretation", and not an objective absolute?
IF it came from God. Most agree today that it did not.

Quote: "God Ordered Me to End Tyranny in Afghanistan and Iraq"
~George Bush
Never actually said by Bush. The source that supposedly was quoted has flat out said that he never said that.

Quote: IF it came from God. Most agree today that it did not.

So what's your point? They did then. Does God's objectivity become subjective over time?

He's said a lot more than that, and the U.S. government uses God to justify defending the homeland, and imperializing other regions. I'm sure not going to take the word of the president of the U.S. if he says he didn't say that. You can, and have fun with it.

Quote: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'.God would tell me, 'George go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did," said Shaath, who is now the Palestinian information minister.

"And then God would tell me,' George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq' And I did," said Shaath.

Todd D. · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject:

Quote: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'.God would tell me, 'George go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did," said Shaath, who is now the Palestinian information minister.

"And then God would tell me,' George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq' And I did," said Shaath.
If we had bothered to follow up on those statements:
Quote: Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has denied an account by another Palestinian official of a meeting with US President George Bush in which Bush is cited as saying he believed that God told him to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

A statement in Abbas's name released by his office said an excerpt from an interview with Palestinian Information Minister Nabil Shaath due to be broadcast by the BBC in which Shaath described a meeting with Bush in June 2003 gave a "completely false" account.

In the interview for the series, Israel and the Arabs, Shaath described the meeting, at which he said Abbas was present.

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did. And then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.' And I did,'" Shaath said.

"This report is not true," the Abbas statement said today. "I have never heard President Bush talking about religion as a reason behind the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Bush has never mentioned that in front of me on any occasion and specifically not during my visit in 2003."

Source

Oops.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

Todd D. wrote: Quote: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'.God would tell me, 'George go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did," said Shaath, who is now the Palestinian information minister.

"And then God would tell me,' George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq' And I did," said Shaath.
If we had bothered to follow up on those statements:
Quote: Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has denied an account by another Palestinian official of a meeting with US President George Bush in which Bush is cited as saying he believed that God told him to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

A statement in Abbas's name released by his office said an excerpt from an interview with Palestinian Information Minister Nabil Shaath due to be broadcast by the BBC in which Shaath described a meeting with Bush in June 2003 gave a "completely false" account.

In the interview for the series, Israel and the Arabs, Shaath described the meeting, at which he said Abbas was present.

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did. And then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.' And I did,'" Shaath said.

"This report is not true," the Abbas statement said today. "I have never heard President Bush talking about religion as a reason behind the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Bush has never mentioned that in front of me on any occasion and specifically not during my visit in 2003."

Source

Oops.

Who's lieing, who knows? Is that all you got?