Political Crossfire Forums

Sparse1 · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Kent

Anti-war campaigners have criticised Tony Blair after he revealed he had prayed to God when deciding whether or not to send UK troops to Iraq in 2003.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4773124.stm

As many of you are doubtless aware I can see firm geo-political impetouses supporting the War in Iraq and think these Anti-War campaigners are unscrupulous and mercenary idiots, and the whole 'Military families against War' thing is so pathetic it's laughable, but I have to wonder whether Blair has completely taken leave of his senses:

"The only way you can take a decision like that is to do the right thing according to your conscience."

He added: "In the end, there is a judgement that, I think if you have faith about these things, you realise that judgement is made by other people."

Asked to explain what he meant, Mr Blair replied: "If you believe in God, it's made by God as well."

For a start why is the Prime Minister going on a chat show?? He could at least wait until he has resigned before working on the future career!!!! But most importantly this is Britain, you can't claim God is supporting you or that you are doing God's work without looking like a complete lunatic!!

I just fail to understand how making yourself look ridiculous helps in anyway justify a controversial decision - I really think the man has had some kind of breakdown.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15233 Location: On Earth

:lol: I saw that before. It's also in the Politics and Government section. Looks like the "Coalition" is a Crusade, to say the least.

Sparse1 · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Kent

Saracen wrote: :lol: I saw that before. It's also in the Politics and Government section. Looks like the "Coalition" is a Crusade, to say the least.

Oops sorry - had a look in there but couldn't see it.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15233 Location: On Earth

Sparse1 wrote: Saracen wrote: :lol: I saw that before. It's also in the Politics and Government section. Looks like the "Coalition" is a Crusade, to say the least.

Oops sorry - had a look in there but couldn't see it.

THat's alright. Keep it here. :)

antonio62 · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:56 am Post subject:

Its his personal beleifs and I don't see a problem with it.

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1743 Location: London

antonio62 wrote: Its his personal beleifs and I don't see a problem with it.

WHAT!!! ARE YOU MAD???

We British don't do GOD. We should have known Tony Blair lost the F**KING plot, when it transpired he prayed with G.W.Bush whilst on a trip to the USA.
I dont care if it is George Bush the leader of the alleged FREE WORLD, Tony Blair, Mullah Omar, the ayatollah of Iran, Sheik Yassin, participants in the Spanish Inquisition or members of the lunatic fringe Lords resistance army in Uganda.

Whats happening to British politics? Never in my lifetime would I bet that a British P.M would invoke the God Clause.
"History & God will be my judge" If I read that in the Taliban times or heard that on Afghani Radio or watched Jihadi TV I would curl and cringe in HORROR.
As far as I am concerned Blair is just as close in rhetoric when invoking God as the Jihadi lunatics (well almost) :lol:

On a serious note, God is the easy way out when you run out of sustainable logic for your argument or to justify your position. As a longtime committed atheist, why are we atheists not so lucky? When we do something, whether it is correct, stupid or wrong. We either have to explain our position or stance with conviction and logic or look a complete idiot. But if your a member of the God squad, it makes us atheists jealous & sometimes resentful, when people people can just pull out their get out of jail free card, with the mention of one word "GOD". Its almost like Tony Blair et al saying to the public "f**k YOU MERE MORTALS, I DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOU PLEBS, I ONLY HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE MAIN MAN UPSTAIRS, AND ITS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS BETWEEN ME & HIM, SO UP YOURS" I feel like i cant reproach him anymore, now hes only answerable to God.

We atheist have to develop our own get out of jail free card. Who can we invoke when we run out of argument and reasoning? I've been thinking hard and every excuse I could use, I just sound like a damn fool. :lol:
Any suggestions from fellow atheists, I will be eternally thankful. On this one occasion I hope all us atheists will receive DIVINE intervention or a muse sent from the Greek gods themselves, to come up with our own. :lol:

Heres a links, make of it what you wish. news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article349125.ece

Sparse1 · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Kent

antonio62 wrote: Its his personal beleifs and I don't see a problem with it.

Then he should keep them personal, when you start letting your imaginary friend make policy decisions for you then you have gone too far.

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1743 Location: London

Sparse1 wrote: antonio62 wrote: Its his personal beleifs and I don't see a problem with it.

Then he should keep them personal, when you start letting your imaginary friend make policy decisions for you then you have gone too far.

I TOTALLY AGREE !

antonio62 · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:21 am Post subject:

Sparse1 wrote: antonio62 wrote: Its his personal beleifs and I don't see a problem with it.

Then he should keep them personal, when you start letting your imaginary friend make policy decisions for you then you have gone too far.

Did he say he made his decision based on his belief? All I have heard is he prayed that it would go well. What is the problem with that?

Nicholas · Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 321 Location: Rural backwater

Quote: Did he say he made his decision based on his belief? All I have heard is he prayed that it would go well. What is the problem with that?

Because God does not exist. Throw on the table the evidence that God does exists? I find it somewhat daft that he praised and prayed to God before the invasion of the Iraq war. No, we invaded Iraq purely to combat terrorism and to support our ally America, not from his or based on religion doctrines.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/04/nblair04.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/04/ixportaltop.html

He insists that God will judge him whether he did the right thing or not. I can tell you, he DID the right thing.

Secondly his spin-doctor, Alastair Campbell once said "We don't do God." He is right and honest.

Thirdly, Blair pretty much answered his own question: The decision to invade Iraq 'had to be lived with alone'

antonio62 · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject:

Nicholas wrote: Because God does not exist. Throw on the table the evidence that God does exists? I find it somewhat daft that he praised and prayed to God before the invasion of the Iraq war.

Equally where is the evidence that he doesn't exist. there is no evidence either way people believe what they want to and as long as they don't try and force them on me I don't care.

Quote: No, we invaded Iraq purely to combat terrorism and to support our ally America, not from his or based on religion doctrines.

America invaded to stop him selling oil in Euros and to scare other OPEC nations into not changing to Euros and we decided to help because the dollar collapsing is not in our interests. [/quote]

Sparse1 · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Kent

antonio62 wrote:
Equally where is the evidence that he doesn't exist. there is no evidence either way people believe what they want to and as long as they don't try and force them on me I don't care.

He's the Prime Minister, unless it verifiably exists it does not concern him, his responsibility is to deal in verifiable fact. As far as I'm concerned the duty of any elected official to his/her constituents outweighs any religious obligations that they may hold - Blair has only one responsibility and that is to the best interests of the British people, the War on Iraq can be seen to have tipped the balance in our favour (you can argue that this could have been achieved without overt action on Iraq though) and starting to bring 'God' into the equation will only serve to undermine that.

Quote:
America invaded to stop him selling oil in Euros and to scare other OPEC nations into not changing to Euros and we decided to help because the dollar collapsing is not in our interests.

That doesn't make sense, the invasion of Iraq was never going to 'scare' anybody, the only country that a case could be made to invade other than Iraq is Iran - and the USA does not have the forces to wage the kind of 'clean' war that the media demand of them in Iran. How can you scare someone when they know there is nothing to be afraid of??

antonio62 · Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:08 am Post subject:

Sparse1 wrote: He's the Prime Minister, unless it verifiably exists it does not concern him, his responsibility is to deal in verifiable fact. As far as I'm concerned the duty of any elected official to his/her constituents outweighs any religious obligations that they may hold - Blair has only one responsibility and that is to the best interests of the British people, the War on Iraq can be seen to have tipped the balance in our favour (you can argue that this could have been achieved without overt action on Iraq though) and starting to bring 'God' into the equation will only serve to undermine that.

How? Because he has religious beliefs doesn't mean he cant do his duty. The people who elected him knew he was Christian and they still elected him.

Quote: That doesn't make sense, the invasion of Iraq was never going to 'scare' anybody, the only country that a case could be made to invade other than Iraq is Iran - and the USA does not have the forces to wage the kind of 'clean' war that the media demand of them in Iran. How can you scare someone when they know there is nothing to be afraid of??

Saddam was trying to convince other OPEC nations to change to Euros. They all decided not to after Iraq. All except Iran which is planning on changing soon. This means America will be desperate to invaded but you say they don't have the forces left. They will most likely use air strikes and special forces assaults to hurt them as much as possible.

Sparse1 · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Kent

antonio62 wrote:

Saddam was trying to convince other OPEC nations to change to Euros. They all decided not to after Iraq. All except Iran which is planning on changing soon. This means America will be desperate to invaded but you say they don't have the forces left.

I don't really see how changing to measure the oil price in Euros will particularly damage America, the Euro is a moderately stable, if weak currency that tends to mirror the dollar anyway so real prices will not be too badly impacted.

The invasion of Iran would actually be far more justifiable than Iraq - the geo-strategic gains for the West would be tremendous and it would reduce the threat of catastrophic conflict for decades. It's a shame that Bush couldn't wait a bit longer before over-committing US troops in Iraq. He should ask his father about the Vision thing ;).

antonio62 · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject:

Sparse1 wrote: I don't really see how changing to measure the oil price in Euros will particularly damage America, the Euro is a moderately stable, if weak currency that tends to mirror the dollar anyway so real prices will not be too badly impacted.

Well why don't you research it its pretty widely available information on the net.

Quote: The invasion of Iran would actually be far more justifiable than Iraq - the geo-strategic gains for the West would be tremendous and it would reduce the threat of catastrophic conflict for decades. It's a shame that Bush couldn't wait a bit longer before over-committing US troops in Iraq. He should ask his father about the Vision thing ;).

It would just cause more terrorism.

social · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:

Sparse1 wrote: antonio62 wrote:

Saddam was trying to convince other OPEC nations to change to Euros. They all decided not to after Iraq. All except Iran which is planning on changing soon. This means America will be desperate to invaded but you say they don't have the forces left.

I don't really see how changing to measure the oil price in Euros will particularly damage America, the Euro is a moderately stable, if weak currency that tends to mirror the dollar anyway so real prices will not be too badly impacted.

Its not about stability. It's about giving America the advantage of purchasing oil using its own currency.

CMB · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject:

He's just playing the god card to appeal to the Conservative religious people indirectly implying that he needed gods ok before he invaded the Muslim nation, G.W did the exact same thing and John Howard to a smaller degree.