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BassistVIV · Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 847 Location: Florida

I have been doing alot of research on Luciferian lately, but can anyone point out what the difference is between Luciferian and Modern Satanism?

wormwood · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 2373 Location: The P-Brane

The difference is: Luciferian belief is that there are fallen angels, but they have been misrepresented by most cultures. Satanism (as in the Church of Satan) does not believe in super natural beings, but believes that in religion, "Satan" personifies how man should be to some extent. Any "modern" Luciferians (a.k.a. the left hand path) is based more on Satanism than traditional Luciferianism.

Does that clear it up at all?

Korimyr the Rat · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 983 Location: Wyoming

Essentially, Satanism is a secular ethical philosophy based on selfishness. Not necessarily a bad thing, though I disagree with it, like other selfish moral ethical philosophies.

Luciferianism is the actual reverence of the supernatural/quasi-deific being once referred to as Lucifer and most commonly referred to as Satan. Whether nor not this is a bad thing depends on how you interpret Biblical passages referring to his exile from Heaven-- and how honest you believe that YHWH is on the topic.

They're both prone to flouting the moral conventions of society in distasteful displays, intended to demonstrate their freedom from being constrained by them. This is the chief source of my disapproval of them.

wormwood · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 2373 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: They're both prone to flouting the moral conventions of society in distasteful displays, intended to demonstrate their freedom from being constrained by them Doesn't this really make them just as constrained by the same social conventions? If they were truly unconstrained they would not consider the moral conventions at all when making a choice.

This reminds me of a friend I had that hated "posers" and "poser" music. So if people started listening to his favorite bands he would stop listening to them...if someone he knew had the cd before him, he refused to go buy it. He was trying to show how public opinion didn't effect him, but all he really demonstrated was how controlled by public opinion he really was.

Korimyr the Rat · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 983 Location: Wyoming

wormwood wrote: Doesn't this really make them just as constrained by the same social conventions? If they were truly unconstrained they would not consider the moral conventions at all when making a choice.

Yes. Pointing this out to them is one of my rare few joys in this world.

wormwood · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 2373 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: Yes. Pointing this out to them is one of my rare few joys in this world We need to get you some strippers buddy :wink: :lol:

Darth Tiberius · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 2001 Location: Oxford

Here's a nice site. Accuirately descreibes Christianity as well.

http://www.lucifer.com/lucifer.html

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6549 Location: US

Darth Tiberius wrote: Here's a nice site. Accuirately descreibes Christianity as well.

http://www.lucifer.com/lucifer.html
That is a totally inacurate description of Christianity.

Darth Tiberius · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 2001 Location: Oxford

superchick wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Here's a nice site. Accuirately descreibes Christianity as well.

http://www.lucifer.com/lucifer.html
That is a totally inacurate description of Christianity.

How so.

Kt · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3806

superchick wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Here's a nice site. Accuirately descreibes Christianity as well.

http://www.lucifer.com/lucifer.html
That is a totally inacurate description of Christianity.
Sounds about right to me...

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6549 Location: US

Darth Tiberius wrote: superchick wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Here's a nice site. Accuirately descreibes Christianity as well.

http://www.lucifer.com/lucifer.html
That is a totally inacurate description of Christianity.

How so.

lucifer.com wrote:

"It's so much easier to just not try to think, to sit back and let other people tell you what you should do, what to believe, and where to give your money. Why, if I had to think for myself I would have to face the fact that I might be wrong. Horrors! I would have to think carefully about my life and the reality that I live in carefully and that would take a lot of work. No, it's much easier to have faith, to accept, to believe, to obey." Yet, the entire passage is dedicated to selfish indulgences, and thoughtless acts, needs and desires, without thinking of the consequences, other people or anything.
lucifer.com wrote:
God also hates us to enjoy ourselves, If we let ourselves experience too much pleasure then we might lose interest in obeying him. We might start running our own lives to bring us positive rewards rather than directing ourselves to avoid his wrath. We might become focussed on pursuing the positive instead of avoiding the negative. That would result in the downfall, of religious and state authority, so God has to stamp out such tendencies." You have the free will to have lots of sex, but with that comes children, and if you sleep with tons of different people, that gives you lots of children, with lots of people.

Wow, maybe that is the reason behind not having orgies, and why it is said we should wait until marriage to have sex.
Hmm....
Or you can just have an abortion everytime, which at the very least, I think we can agree is not a healthy practice probably on the 6th or 7th time. Or you can just give them up for adoption everytime. Im not sure how the world would be if we all followed that thought process. Pretty great I suppose. Maybe if we like alcohol we shouldn't deny ourselves of that pleasure either while we are pregnant. Why not?

You can use drugs, persue everything your little heart desires. That is the pleasure we are speaking of? Or what is it.......?

A certain respect for a creator should be given. I think that is a no brainer. Do you not respect your parents? Do you not understand that their love, not their pride and need for worship was given to you in their guidance? That is what God is offering, it's not out of arrogance that respect is expected. I am going on the assumption that since you revere Lucifer, you also accept that there is God, Jehovah, and he is your creator. Wether you like it or not, a world without Christians would be very bad indeed. 90% of charities are either churchs, or church based. Of course, humanity is much better off with PETA...

Which will probably bring the conversation to the point that the author doesn't believe God exists. Well that is a lame scapegoat. I don't get into a conversation to say something like:
"Hey Lex Luther is way better than Superman! All the stupid people in Metropolis are silly to think he is great! Lex Luther is the real hero!"
Then when someone makes a point about something Superman may have said or done that was good my retort is Wha? Superman isn't real!

It's very annoying having a conversation/debate with someone who will exalt Lucifer, but then say God doesn't exist, what is the point ?

Babylon_Horuv · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 2065

BassistVIV wrote: I have been doing alot of research on Luciferian lately, but can anyone point out what the difference is between Luciferian and Modern Satanism?

Luciferians tend to be intellectuals, in favor of freedom and rational thought. Not smash things up rebels like most satanists. My wife is essentially a luciferian

BassistVIV · Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 847 Location: Florida

superchick wrote: You have the free will to have lots of sex, but with that comes children, and if you sleep with tons of different people, that gives you lots of children, with lots of people.

Wow, maybe that is the reason behind not having orgies, and why it is said we should wait until marriage to have sex.
Hmm....
Or you can just have an abortion everytime, which at the very least, I think we can agree is not a healthy practice probably on the 6th or 7th time. Or you can just give them up for adoption everytime. Im not sure how the world would be if we all followed that thought process. Pretty great I suppose. Maybe if we like alcohol we shouldn't deny ourselves of that pleasure either while we are pregnant. Why not?

Haven't you ever heard of a condom?

Quote: You can use drugs, persue everything your little heart desires. That is the pleasure we are speaking of? Or what is it.......?

Satanism is all about controlled indulgence. I know people who do drugs, but don't let it affect their personal lives outside because they know the meaning of the words "self-control". Satanism promotes controlled indulgence, not wild drug-sex orgies 24/7.

Quote: A certain respect for a creator should be given. I think that is a no brainer. Do you not respect your parents? Do you not understand that their love, not their pride and need for worship was given to you in their guidance?

Of course I respect my parents. However, I wouldn't respect them unless they were respectable people. Can you honestly say that you would have respect for your parents if they (hypothetically) beat and abused you regularly for no reason JUST because they are your parents? I give respect to those who deserve respect.

Quote: That is what God is offering, it's not out of arrogance that respect is expected. I am going on the assumption that since you revere Lucifer, you also accept that there is God, Jehovah, and he is your creator. Wether you like it or not, a world without Christians would be very bad indeed. 90% of charities are either churchs, or church based. Of course, humanity is much better off with PETA...

I revere what Lucifer stands for, not an actual entity named Lucifer. I do not believe in any god, not Satan, not Lucifer, not the Christian God.

Quote: Which will probably bring the conversation to the point that the author doesn't believe God exists. Well that is a lame scapegoat. I don't get into a conversation to say something like:
"Hey Lex Luther is way better than Superman! All the stupid people in Metropolis are silly to think he is great! Lex Luther is the real hero!"
Then when someone makes a point about something Superman may have said or done that was good my retort is Wha? Superman isn't real!

I think you're misunderstanding a couple of things.

Quote: It's very annoying having a conversation/debate with someone who will exalt Lucifer, but then say God doesn't exist, what is the point ?

The qualities Lucifer represents are much more respectable (to me) then that qualities that the Christian god represents. While I understand your point, I don't believe in either God or Satan. Lucifer is more of a representation of what we want to achieve, not the object of worship.

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6549 Location: US

BassistVIV wrote: superchick wrote: You have the free will to have lots of sex, but with that comes children, and if you sleep with tons of different people, that gives you lots of children, with lots of people.

Wow, maybe that is the reason behind not having orgies, and why it is said we should wait until marriage to have sex.
Hmm....
Or you can just have an abortion everytime, which at the very least, I think we can agree is not a healthy practice probably on the 6th or 7th time. Or you can just give them up for adoption everytime. Im not sure how the world would be if we all followed that thought process. Pretty great I suppose. Maybe if we like alcohol we shouldn't deny ourselves of that pleasure either while we are pregnant. Why not?

Haven't you ever heard of a condom?

Quote: You can use drugs, persue everything your little heart desires. That is the pleasure we are speaking of? Or what is it.......?

Satanism is all about controlled indulgence. I know people who do drugs, but don't let it affect their personal lives outside because they know the meaning of the words "self-control". Satanism promotes controlled indulgence, not wild drug-sex orgies 24/7.

Quote: A certain respect for a creator should be given. I think that is a no brainer. Do you not respect your parents? Do you not understand that their love, not their pride and need for worship was given to you in their guidance?

Of course I respect my parents. However, I wouldn't respect them unless they were respectable people. Can you honestly say that you would have respect for your parents if they (hypothetically) beat and abused you regularly for no reason JUST because they are your parents? I give respect to those who deserve respect.

Quote: That is what God is offering, it's not out of arrogance that respect is expected. I am going on the assumption that since you revere Lucifer, you also accept that there is God, Jehovah, and he is your creator. Wether you like it or not, a world without Christians would be very bad indeed. 90% of charities are either churchs, or church based. Of course, humanity is much better off with PETA...

I revere what Lucifer stands for, not an actual entity named Lucifer. I do not believe in any god, not Satan, not Lucifer, not the Christian God.

Quote: Which will probably bring the conversation to the point that the author doesn't believe God exists. Well that is a lame scapegoat. I don't get into a conversation to say something like:
"Hey Lex Luther is way better than Superman! All the stupid people in Metropolis are silly to think he is great! Lex Luther is the real hero!"
Then when someone makes a point about something Superman may have said or done that was good my retort is Wha? Superman isn't real!

I think you're misunderstanding a couple of things.

Quote: It's very annoying having a conversation/debate with someone who will exalt Lucifer, but then say God doesn't exist, what is the point ?

The qualities Lucifer represents are much more respectable (to me) then that qualities that the Christian god represents. While I understand your point, I don't believe in either God or Satan. Lucifer is more of a representation of what we want to achieve, not the object of worship.

Soo...what you are saying is even though both are "pretend characters", if they were real, the character of Lucifer is way better and the way we should choose to live our lives vs. Jesus Christ and the way he lived his life?

BassistVIV · Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 847 Location: Florida

superchick wrote: BassistVIV wrote: superchick wrote: You have the free will to have lots of sex, but with that comes children, and if you sleep with tons of different people, that gives you lots of children, with lots of people.

Wow, maybe that is the reason behind not having orgies, and why it is said we should wait until marriage to have sex.
Hmm....
Or you can just have an abortion everytime, which at the very least, I think we can agree is not a healthy practice probably on the 6th or 7th time. Or you can just give them up for adoption everytime. Im not sure how the world would be if we all followed that thought process. Pretty great I suppose. Maybe if we like alcohol we shouldn't deny ourselves of that pleasure either while we are pregnant. Why not?

Haven't you ever heard of a condom?

Quote: You can use drugs, persue everything your little heart desires. That is the pleasure we are speaking of? Or what is it.......?

Satanism is all about controlled indulgence. I know people who do drugs, but don't let it affect their personal lives outside because they know the meaning of the words "self-control". Satanism promotes controlled indulgence, not wild drug-sex orgies 24/7.

Quote: A certain respect for a creator should be given. I think that is a no brainer. Do you not respect your parents? Do you not understand that their love, not their pride and need for worship was given to you in their guidance?

Of course I respect my parents. However, I wouldn't respect them unless they were respectable people. Can you honestly say that you would have respect for your parents if they (hypothetically) beat and abused you regularly for no reason JUST because they are your parents? I give respect to those who deserve respect.

Quote: That is what God is offering, it's not out of arrogance that respect is expected. I am going on the assumption that since you revere Lucifer, you also accept that there is God, Jehovah, and he is your creator. Wether you like it or not, a world without Christians would be very bad indeed. 90% of charities are either churchs, or church based. Of course, humanity is much better off with PETA...

I revere what Lucifer stands for, not an actual entity named Lucifer. I do not believe in any god, not Satan, not Lucifer, not the Christian God.

Quote: Which will probably bring the conversation to the point that the author doesn't believe God exists. Well that is a lame scapegoat. I don't get into a conversation to say something like:
"Hey Lex Luther is way better than Superman! All the stupid people in Metropolis are silly to think he is great! Lex Luther is the real hero!"
Then when someone makes a point about something Superman may have said or done that was good my retort is Wha? Superman isn't real!

I think you're misunderstanding a couple of things.

Quote: It's very annoying having a conversation/debate with someone who will exalt Lucifer, but then say God doesn't exist, what is the point ?

The qualities Lucifer represents are much more respectable (to me) then that qualities that the Christian god represents. While I understand your point, I don't believe in either God or Satan. Lucifer is more of a representation of what we want to achieve, not the object of worship.

Soo...what you are saying is even though both are "pretend characters", if they were real, the character of Lucifer is way better and the way we should choose to live our lives vs. Jesus Christ and the way he lived his life?

Basically, yes. Don't confuse him with the Christian Satan though, the two are totally different.

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6549 Location: US

BassistVIV wrote: superchick wrote: BassistVIV wrote: superchick wrote: You have the free will to have lots of sex, but with that comes children, and if you sleep with tons of different people, that gives you lots of children, with lots of people.

Wow, maybe that is the reason behind not having orgies, and why it is said we should wait until marriage to have sex.
Hmm....
Or you can just have an abortion everytime, which at the very least, I think we can agree is not a healthy practice probably on the 6th or 7th time. Or you can just give them up for adoption everytime. Im not sure how the world would be if we all followed that thought process. Pretty great I suppose. Maybe if we like alcohol we shouldn't deny ourselves of that pleasure either while we are pregnant. Why not?

Haven't you ever heard of a condom?

T Quote: You can use drugs, persue everything your little heart desires. That is the pleasure we are speaking of? Or what is it.......?

Satanism is all about controlled indulgence. I know people who do drugs, but don't let it affect their personal lives outside because they know the meaning of the words "self-control". Satanism promotes controlled indulgence, not wild drug-sex orgies 24/7.

Quote: A certain respect for a creator should be given. I think that is a no brainer. Do you not respect your parents? Do you not understand that their love, not their pride and need for worship was given to you in their guidance?

Of course I respect my parents. However, I wouldn't respect them unless they were respectable people. Can you honestly say that you would have respect for your parents if they (hypothetically) beat and abused you regularly for no reason JUST because they are your parents? I give respect to those who deserve respect.

Quote: That is what God is offering, it's not out of arrogance that respect is expected. I am going on the assumption that since you revere Lucifer, you also accept that there is God, Jehovah, and he is your creator. Wether you like it or not, a world without Christians would be very bad indeed. 90% of charities are either churchs, or church based. Of course, humanity is much better off with PETA...

I revere what Lucifer stands for, not an actual entity named Lucifer. I do not believe in any god, not Satan, not Lucifer, not the Christian God.

Quote: Which will probably bring the conversation to the point that the author doesn't believe God exists. Well that is a lame scapegoat. I don't get into a conversation to say something like:
"Hey Lex Luther is way better than Superman! All the stupid people in Metropolis are silly to think he is great! Lex Luther is the real hero!"
Then when someone makes a point about something Superman may have said or done that was good my retort is Wha? Superman isn't real!

I think you're misunderstanding a couple of things.

Quote: It's very annoying having a conversation/debate with someone who will exalt Lucifer, but then say God doesn't exist, what is the point ?

The qualities Lucifer represents are much more respectable (to me) then that qualities that the Christian god represents. While I understand your point, I don't believe in either God or Satan. Lucifer is more of a representation of what we want to achieve, not the object of worship.

Soo...what you are saying is even though both are "pretend characters", if they were real, the character of Lucifer is way better and the way we should choose to live our lives vs. Jesus Christ and the way he lived his life?

Basically, yes. Don't confuse him with the Christian Satan though, the two are totally different.

Did he or his disciples write a book that I am not aware of that shed a different light on who he is/was....I mean in another pretend sort of way?
So what you are saying is that
The Bible is a work of fiction and Jesus didn't exist, and Satan doesn't exist, but if he did, his story would be totally different and it shouldn't be confused with the pretend Satan in Christianity.
So to summarize:
The Bible is a work of fiction and in this work of fiction is a fictious account of a ficticious character, Satan. However, this ficticious character was not portrayed truthfully and honestly in this ficticious work. This ficticious character was factually portrayed in some other_____________ .....something and that account of Satan is to be taken seriously, although this character doesn't exist in reality.
...and you think I am the brainwashed, simple minded one?

scoobysnack · Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject:

Some New Age leaders believe that the Fall (in garden of eden) was really man's ascent into knowledge, assisted by Lucifer - whom they hail as the bringer of light and wisdom. These New Age teachers expect an imminent, apocalyptic transformation that will lead humanity into the New Age. By acts of men or by an act of "spirit," earth will be cleansed of those who refuse to evolve. In the New Age, there will be world government; the economy will be remade to Promote "sharing." Traditional morality and traditional families will disappear. Orthodox religions - especially Christianity and Judaism - are considered "separative" and "obsolete"; in the New Age, they too will vanish.

Blavatsky says, "It is but natural ... to view Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he who was the 'Harbinger of Light,' bright radiant Lucifer, who opened the eyes of the automaton created by Jehovah."[50] According to Alice Bailey, the revolt of the angels against God was part of "the divine plan of evolution;" the fallen angels "descended from their sinless and free state of existence in order to develop full divine awareness upon earth."[51] Spangler, like Blavatsky, praises Lucifer as "the angel of man's evolution. He is the angel of man's inner light."[52] He says that "Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness,"[53] and "as we move into a new age", "each of us in some way is brought to that point which I term the Luciferic initiation."[54] Spangler sees this as "an initiation into the New Age. It is an initiation of leaving the past and moving into the new, shedding our guilts and fears ... and becoming whole and at peace because we have recognized our inner light and ... the light of God."

Spangler says, "Christ is the perfect balance to Lucifer."[62] Like Matthew Fox, Spangler proposes to replace Jesus with the "cosmic Christ;" "any old Christ will not do, not if we need to show that we have something better than the mainstream Christian traditions. It must be a cosmic Christ, a universal Christ, a New Age Christ. ... The Christ is universal. It is cosmic.

With the New Religion, there will be spiritual totalitarianism. New Age leaders agree that the last 2,000 years - the Age of Pisces - were a time for development of individual identity and personality. According to occult thought, the Piscean Age has as its foundation the male-centered energies that characterize Christianity. The Aquarian Age, on the other hand, is an attempt to bring balance back into the evolutionary process by introducing female energies into our understanding. Those who have embraced this new-age understanding of humanity believe that all of the problems that man faces are a direct result of Christianity and its perceived male- centered belief system.

Therefore, a change in man's thinking must occur to bring about a more equal system that will allow feminine energies to govern humanity. This female-centered system will be based on intuition and experience rather than logic and rational thought, the latter being seen as male characteristics.

In the coming Age of Aquarius, this will change. People will happily let go of individualism and merge their own goals and identity into that of the whole race. As Alice Bailey said, "Selfishness, as we now understand it, will gradually disappear, for the will of the individual will voluntarily be blended into the group will."

The New Age avatars proclaim their commitment to democracy and tolerance. However, they propose totalitarian solutions to mankind's urgent, undeniable problems. The sacrifice of freedom and the acceptance of unlimited government power will - as always - be for our own good; necessity will be the excuse of tyrants. The New Age movement uses the theory of evolution - a theory of inevitable and desirable Progress - as a justification for whatever policies are needed to drive humanity and the planet to the next great leap upward. (Can anything good ever come from applying Darwinism to society?)

Alice Bailey and her followers at the Lucis Trust have repeatedly praised revolutions and dictatorships, approving them as part of the workings of "the Plan." She viewed the dictatorships of her time as a positive part of human evolution, fostering humanity's "power to regard himself as part of a whole.

After all, according to Walsch's incubus, Hitler was doing his victims a favor by killing them; his deeds were "mistakes," not crimes: "The mistakes Hitler made did no harm or damage to those whose deaths he caused. Those souls were released from their earthly bondage, like butterflies emerging from a cocoon.

"Birth itself is a death, and death a birth. For in birth, the soul finds itself constricted within the awful limitations of a body, and at death escapes those constrictions again." This is, almost word for word, what Alice Bailey wrote: "Birth establishes the soul in the true prison, and physical death is only the first step toward liberation."

When you see the utter perfection in everything - not just in those things with which you agree, but (and perhaps especially) those things with which you disagree - you achieve mastery." The price of "mastery" is to see "utter perfection" in Auschwitz and Treblinka. "John," the disembodied spirit which Spangler has channeled for over 20 years, likewise said, "We naturally do not identify life with the physical body, consequently, to us, the loss of your physical form is not a tragedy.... The death of millions of people in itself is not a tragedy for us, for it simply means their birth into our domains."
Walsch's "God" says that Hitler does not deserve blame for his acts - the rest of humanity is responsible for allowing them to happen: "The purpose of the Hitler Experience was to show humanity to itself."

"Blame not the personalities involved.... They are only the product of the past and the victims of the present. At the same time, they are the agents of destiny, the creators of the new order and the initiators of the new civilisation; they are the destroyers of what must be destroyed before humanity can go forward along the Lighted Way. They are the embodiment of the personality of humanity. Blame yourselves, therefore, for what is today transpiring."

Nevertheless, these radical New Age leaders believe that the two World Wars were necessary for human evolution, and that the birth pangs of the New Age began with the atomic explosions in 1945. They also advocate sending those people who are unwilling to enter the New Age into oblivion, and reducing world population to 2 billion - or less. Such is the blood lust of the "compassionate."

"Nature is less concerned about individual survival, than with the evolution of the whole to ever higher degrees of freedom, union, and consciousness of God."

From the start of World War II until her death in 1949, Alice Bailey wrote that the war was necessary for the New Age to come. She believed that the New Age would be preceded by a "destructive cycle, wherein the old order passes away" and "human civilization with its accompanying institutions - is destroyed."[202] She gives credit to the "Hierarchy" of ascended spiritual masters for "their decision, taken early in this century, which precipitated ... that major destructive agency, the world war (1914-1945). (The hierarchy is the Illuminati)

"This is a time of preparation not only for a new civilisation and culture in a new world order, but also for the coming of a new spiritual dispensation.

Humanity is not following an uncharted course. There is a divine Plan in the Cosmos of which we are a part. At the end of an age human resources and established institutions seem inadequate to meet world needs and problems. At such a time the advent of a Teacher, a spiritual leader or Avatar, is anticipated and invoked by the masses of humanity in all parts of the world.

If evil always appeared as evil, the enticement to evil works would not be as easily "sold" to an unsuspecting population. However, if the plan of Lucifer was "sold" as a plan to develop a human community by establishing unity in diversity, how much more successful could this plan become? Furthermore, if one were aspire to create globalistic unity in diversity, what strategy would serve to unify those of diverse backgrounds, religions, and cultures?
These are excerpts from various articles

http://www.mdep.org/NewAgeComplete.html

Lucis Trust first started as Lucifer Publishing, created by Alice Bailey, who a follower of Helen Blavatsky, and both Theosophists. She changed the name from Lucifer publishing to Lucis trust to hide the true intentions. Basically they view Lucifer as God. Lucis Trust is an NGO that gives advice to the establishment, and published all work done by the United Nations. The land donated by the Rockefeller family to build the U.N. head quarters in New York, used to also house Lucis Trust.

Here's some excerpts from Alice Bailey:
“The new world order must meet the immediate need and not be an attempt to satisfy some distant, idealistic vision. The new world order must be appropriate to a world which has passed through a destructive crisis and to a humanity which is badly shattered by the experience. The new world order must lay the foundation for a future world order which will be possible only after a time of recovery, of reconstruction, and of rebuilding.

In the preparatory period for the new world order there will be a steady and regulated disarmament. It will not be optional. No nation will be permitted to produce and organize any equipment for destructive purposes or to infringe the security of any other nation.

We are concerned with only one subject, the ushering in of the new world order.

...the present world order (which is today largely disorder) can be so modified and changed that a new world and a new race of men can gradually come into being. Renunciation and the use of the sacrificial will should be the keynote for the interim period after the war (WWII), prior to the inauguration of the New Age.”

-- Alice Bailey: Quotes From Various Works

They view Lucifer as a great being because he gave mankind knowledge or enlightenmnet. They are preparing the way for the world teacher known by some as

"Lucifer is divine and terrestrial light, the ‘Holy Ghost’ and ‘Satan,’ at one and the same time..."
-Helen Blvatsky

"And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the "Lord of Phosphorus," and Lucifer, or "Light-Bearer," is in us: it is our Mind–our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and Saviour from pure animalism."
-Helen Blvatsky(Vol. 2, p. 513)

BassistVIV · Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 847 Location: Florida

superchick wrote:
Did he or his disciples write a book that I am not aware of that shed a different light on who he is/was....I mean in another pretend sort of way?
So what you are saying is that
The Bible is a work of fiction and Jesus didn't exist, and Satan doesn't exist, but if he did, his story would be totally different and it shouldn't be confused with the pretend Satan in Christianity.
So to summarize:
The Bible is a work of fiction and in this work of fiction is a fictious account of a ficticious character, Satan. However, this ficticious character was not portrayed truthfully and honestly in this ficticious work. This ficticious character was factually portrayed in some other_____________ .....something and that account of Satan is to be taken seriously, although this character doesn't exist in reality.
...and you think I am the brainwashed, simple minded one?

I think you have things a little mixed up.

There are some Theistic Satanists/Luciferians who believe that the Christian god is actually evil. He made man stupid and thoughtless just to worship him, and that Lucifer gave man knowledge because he disagreed with the evil god, and was cast out of Heaven because this made god angry. An interesting take in my opinion, but not my personal belief.

Most Satanists/Luciferians see Satan/Lucifer as the angel who questioned god's authority and was punished for it. He stood up for what he believed in. He is seen as a symbol of free thought. Lucifer literally means "light-bearer". He is also the representation of the earth, of man's earthly desires. This is also what Satanism is all about. Independent thought and (controlled) earthly indulgence. They believe that indulgences are natural, and Satan represents man's carnal nature.

If you're still confused, I suggest you read the Satanic Bible. Even if you disagree with it, it's still a very interesting and enlightening read.

EDIT: By the way, most Satanists/Luciferians don't have a holy text. The Satanic Bible and other books are interesting reads, but most true Satanists try to form their own ideas and opinions on the way things work.

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6549 Location: US

BassistVIV wrote: superchick wrote:
Did he or his disciples write a book that I am not aware of that shed a different light on who he is/was....I mean in another pretend sort of way?
So what you are saying is that
The Bible is a work of fiction and Jesus didn't exist, and Satan doesn't exist, but if he did, his story would be totally different and it shouldn't be confused with the pretend Satan in Christianity.
So to summarize:
The Bible is a work of fiction and in this work of fiction is a fictious account of a ficticious character, Satan. However, this ficticious character was not portrayed truthfully and honestly in this ficticious work. This ficticious character was factually portrayed in some other_____________ .....something and that account of Satan is to be taken seriously, although this character doesn't exist in reality.
...and you think I am the brainwashed, simple minded one?

I think you have things a little mixed up.

There are some Theistic Satanists/Luciferians who believe that the Christian god is actually evil. He made man stupid and thoughtless just to worship him, and that Lucifer gave man knowledge because he disagreed with the evil god, and was cast out of Heaven because this made god angry. An interesting take in my opinion, but not my personal belief.

Most Satanists/Luciferians see Satan/Lucifer as the angel who questioned god's authority and was punished for it. He stood up for what he believed in. He is seen as a symbol of free thought. Lucifer literally means "light-bearer". He is also the representation of the earth, of man's earthly desires. This is also what Satanism is all about. Independent thought and (controlled) earthly indulgence. They believe that indulgences are natural, and Satan represents man's carnal nature.

If you're still confused, I suggest you read the Satanic Bible. Even if you disagree with it, it's still a very interesting and enlightening read.

EDIT: By the way, most Satanists/Luciferians don't have a holy text. The Satanic Bible and other books are interesting reads, but most true Satanists try to form their own ideas and opinions on the way things work.
Understand the concept, those that follow the Bible are mindless drones to follow God. Followers/not leaders, not thinkers. Embrace rebelion, think outside the box, etc.
Im sure there isn't holy text in the satanic bible, because that would basically go against the purpose of rebellion, or following your own rules, free thought, expression etc.

I just think it's rediculous when I hear or read....
"I don't believe in God, but I think satan had the right idea, and the Bible doesn't tell the real story"
Well, you either believe or you don't.
What annoys the crap out of me, is someone saying they don't believe in God, and the Bible is fiction, but then they are creating more fiction from "fiction"aka the Bible to tell a whole entire diffierent story....that's so lame.
I believe there is satan, God/Jehovah...and if you beleive that, you know who the creator is, and it's not satan/lucifer.

It is much easier to indulge yourself than to discipline and to learn sacrifice so it's appeal is obvious.

wormwood · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 2373 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: Did he or his disciples write a book that I am not aware of that shed a different light on who he is/was....I mean in another pretend sort of way?
So what you are saying is that
The Bible is a work of fiction and Jesus didn't exist, and Satan doesn't exist, but if he did, his story would be totally different and it shouldn't be confused with the pretend Satan in Christianity.
So to summarize:
The Bible is a work of fiction and in this work of fiction is a fictious account of a ficticious character, Satan. However, this ficticious character was not portrayed truthfully and honestly in this ficticious work. This ficticious character was factually portrayed in some other_____________ .....something and that account of Satan is to be taken seriously, although this character doesn't exist in reality.
...and you think I am the brainwashed, simple minded one? :lol: I thought this was a funny tirade.

I think most people who claim to worship or exalt Lucifer are doing so in a non spiritual way. Firstly, Lucifer is a human being and not an angel.

Quote: "Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"
The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?

The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

Secondly, the Character "Satan" (which just means adversary, and isn't indicative of a name), is based on older Sumerian mythology. He has gone by many names, but the oldest on record is ENKI (literally "Lord Earth") I believe. In the original stories ENKI is the protagonist and creator of humanity. Represented by the serpent, it was ENKI who gave knowledge to humanity. This spills over into the old testament version of creation where the serpent points out Gods lie, and says, surely you will not die this day...and convinces humans to eat the fruit. It is that same element of rebelliousness that humanity has been drawn to since the beginning of written history. In that sense, some non religious people like Satan, or what he represents, and what I wrote above should explain why people claim to have different stories or versions of Satan.