Political Crossfire Forums

[George W Bush]

Without evil, GOD would logically have no value.

Evil is needed, then, to inspire value.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but its all a simple case of logic.

[mojo]

George W Bush wrote: Without evil, GOD would logically have no value.

Evil is needed, then, to inspire value.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but its all a simple case of logic.

Evil is the absense of God. God is perfectly relevant in an absolutely perfect society because he would be absolute.

[Saracen]

I think GWB has a point, but God has the Will to create Good and Evil.

[mojo]

Saracen wrote: I think GWB has a point, but God has the Will to create Good and Evil.

No evil is the absense of God. Whether that evil is the result of people failing to choose God or the lack of the holy spirit all together.

[sLiPpY]

George W Bush wrote: Without evil, GOD would logically have no value.

Evil is needed, then, to inspire value.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but its all a simple case of logic.

God would exist in the absence of evil.

Almost every human being that is born, eventually ask the questions of why...how? and what is my purpose?

God is simply an attempt to answer those questions, among many others...about the context of human experience and living?

[anselfir]

You are noob. Learn that God defines evil, not the other way around. Evil is defined as a departure from an optimum/goal/ideal, which is defined by God.

Learn to appreciate thinking!

[anselfir]

sLiPpY wrote: George W Bush wrote: Without evil, GOD would logically have no value.

Evil is needed, then, to inspire value.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but its all a simple case of logic.

God would exist in the absence of evil.

Almost every human being that is born, eventually ask the questions of why...how? and what is my purpose?

God is simply an attempt to answer those questions, among many others...about the context of human experience and living? No. That's changing what God is meant by the OP.

[sLiPpY]

oneofthem wrote: You are noob. Learn that God defines evil, not the other way around. Evil is defined as a departure from an optimum/goal/ideal, which is defined by God.

Learn to appreciate thinking!

If you'd take a moment to read the New Testiment, and observe what the main character Jesus has to say on the subject. You might come to a differing understanding...and realize that in context to Jesus's own Jewishness. His main Heresey was in unequivocably stating, that man in fact defines sin.

Considering that you seem to have difficulty in refraining from imature characterizations. We'll give you another twenty years, to more fully absorb the subject.

[John]

sLiPpY wrote: oneofthem wrote: You are noob. Learn that God defines evil, not the other way around. Evil is defined as a departure from an optimum/goal/ideal, which is defined by God.

Learn to appreciate thinking!

If you'd take a moment to read the New Testiment, and observe what the main character Jesus has to say on the subject. You might come to a differing understanding...and realize that in context to Jesus's own Jewishness. His main Heresey was in unequivocably stating, that man in fact defines sin.

Considering that you seem to have difficulty in refraining from imature characterizations. We'll give you another twenty years, to more fully absorb the subject.

Yes...I agree. God doesn't "define" evil...as if evil is a relative issue. God tells us something is evil because it IS evil.

[sLiPpY]

John wrote: sLiPpY wrote: oneofthem wrote: You are noob. Learn that God defines evil, not the other way around. Evil is defined as a departure from an optimum/goal/ideal, which is defined by God.

Learn to appreciate thinking!

If you'd take a moment to read the New Testiment, and observe what the main character Jesus has to say on the subject. You might come to a differing understanding...and realize that in context to Jesus's own Jewishness. His main Heresey was in unequivocably stating, that man in fact defines sin.

Considering that you seem to have difficulty in refraining from imature characterizations. We'll give you another twenty years, to more fully absorb the subject.

Yes...I agree. God doesn't "define" evil...as if evil is a relative issue. God tells us something is evil because it IS evil.

*hat's off* The statement you've forwarded seems very clear to me. I hope to remember it well enough, to quote John in class.

Edited* to quote, in checking our shared perception against the instructors. :wink:

[BassistVIV]

politicalmojo wrote: Saracen wrote: I think GWB has a point, but God has the Will to create Good and Evil.

No evil is the absense of God. Whether that evil is the result of people failing to choose God or the lack of the holy spirit all together.

How can god be absent if he is omnipresent? Evil is not the absence of god, it is the lack of good. I believe that good and evil are based on perception, so what may seem evil to you may not be evil to me.

And the subject of dualism brings me to another thought: How can god have the ability to love without having the ability to hate?

[Kt]

You know where I stand.

Obviously jehova benefits from a world with "evil" in it.

[adrenalinejunkie]

Helena` wrote: You know where I stand.

Obviously jehova benefits from a world with "evil" in it.

Benefits in the sense that He Himself suffered and died to demonstrate His love and sympathy toward His creation?

Benefits isn't the right word in my opinion. He deals with evil in a way where ultimately, good can result.

[BassistVIV]

adrenalinejunkie wrote: Helena` wrote: You know where I stand.

Obviously jehova benefits from a world with "evil" in it.

Benefits in the sense that He Himself suffered and died to demonstrate His love and sympathy toward His creation?

Benefits isn't the right word in my opinion. He deals with evil in a way where ultimately, good can result.

But he didn't HAVE to suffer. I'm sure an all powerful and all knowing god could have figured out another way to go about saving humanity. Perhaps he just liked making it a bit more dramatic? Besides, what is a bit of pain to god? Nailed to a cross is practically nothing for a perfect being. He benefits because one third of the earth worships him.

[Gilbert1908]

BassistVIV wrote: politicalmojo wrote: Saracen wrote: I think GWB has a point, but God has the Will to create Good and Evil.

No evil is the absense of God. Whether that evil is the result of people failing to choose God or the lack of the holy spirit all together.

How can god be absent if he is omnipresent? Evil is not the absence of god, it is the lack of good. I believe that good and evil are based on perception, so what may seem evil to you may not be evil to me.

And the subject of dualism brings me to another thought: How can god have the ability to love without having the ability to hate?

You continue to consider God in the limited and cramped confines of human perception. As long as you do, you will percieve the Creator of the universe as somehow similar or relative to form, thought and experience. No wonder you don't believe.

[BassistVIV]

Gilbert1908 wrote: BassistVIV wrote: politicalmojo wrote: Saracen wrote: I think GWB has a point, but God has the Will to create Good and Evil.

No evil is the absense of God. Whether that evil is the result of people failing to choose God or the lack of the holy spirit all together.

How can god be absent if he is omnipresent? Evil is not the absence of god, it is the lack of good. I believe that good and evil are based on perception, so what may seem evil to you may not be evil to me.

And the subject of dualism brings me to another thought: How can god have the ability to love without having the ability to hate?

You continue to consider God in the limited and cramped confines of human perception. As long as you do, you will percieve the Creator of the universe as somehow similar or relative to form, thought and experience. No wonder you don't believe.

No. It defies simple logic for one who is omnipresent to NOT be somewhere. If he does not exist somewhere, then he is not omnipresent.

[mojo]

BassistVIV wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: BassistVIV wrote: politicalmojo wrote: Saracen wrote: I think GWB has a point, but God has the Will to create Good and Evil.

No evil is the absense of God. Whether that evil is the result of people failing to choose God or the lack of the holy spirit all together.

How can god be absent if he is omnipresent? Evil is not the absence of god, it is the lack of good. I believe that good and evil are based on perception, so what may seem evil to you may not be evil to me.

And the subject of dualism brings me to another thought: How can god have the ability to love without having the ability to hate?

You continue to consider God in the limited and cramped confines of human perception. As long as you do, you will percieve the Creator of the universe as somehow similar or relative to form, thought and experience. No wonder you don't believe.

No. It defies simple logic for one who is omnipresent to NOT be somewhere. If he does not exist somewhere, then he is not omnipresent.

Present within exactly which realm of the world. The world of the soul or the world of the body.

[BassistVIV]

politicalmojo wrote: BassistVIV wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: BassistVIV wrote: politicalmojo wrote: Saracen wrote: I think GWB has a point, but God has the Will to create Good and Evil.

No evil is the absense of God. Whether that evil is the result of people failing to choose God or the lack of the holy spirit all together.

How can god be absent if he is omnipresent? Evil is not the absence of god, it is the lack of good. I believe that good and evil are based on perception, so what may seem evil to you may not be evil to me.

And the subject of dualism brings me to another thought: How can god have the ability to love without having the ability to hate?

You continue to consider God in the limited and cramped confines of human perception. As long as you do, you will percieve the Creator of the universe as somehow similar or relative to form, thought and experience. No wonder you don't believe.

No. It defies simple logic for one who is omnipresent to NOT be somewhere. If he does not exist somewhere, then he is not omnipresent.

Present within exactly which realm of the world. The world of the soul or the world of the body.

I don't know for a fact. You're a Christian, so you tell me. I figured that when it said god was everywhere, they meant EVERYWHERE, no matter which dimension you're talking about.

[cap'n queasy]

Evil is not the "opposite" of God.

It is merely a psychological abberation common to created beings. Some of these beings are a bit more powerful or more intelligent than others but the thing they have in common is that they only exist while they serve their purpose.

[Gilbert1908]

BassistVIV wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: BassistVIV wrote: politicalmojo wrote: Saracen wrote: I think GWB has a point, but God has the Will to create Good and Evil.

No evil is the absense of God. Whether that evil is the result of people failing to choose God or the lack of the holy spirit all together.

How can god be absent if he is omnipresent? Evil is not the absence of god, it is the lack of good. I believe that good and evil are based on perception, so what may seem evil to you may not be evil to me.

And the subject of dualism brings me to another thought: How can god have the ability to love without having the ability to hate?

You continue to consider God in the limited and cramped confines of human perception. As long as you do, you will percieve the Creator of the universe as somehow similar or relative to form, thought and experience. No wonder you don't believe.

No. It defies simple logic for one who is omnipresent to NOT be somewhere. If he does not exist somewhere, then he is not omnipresent.

Of course it defies logic. If you believe that the simplicity of God is not profound then you will continue to flounder in your misunderstandings. I would suggest that as an unbeliever you approach the existence of God as you would the existence of a seperate dimension.

See if you can begin to get your logic around St. Thomas Aquinas as he describes the omnipresence of God.

"I answer that, Since place is a thing, to be in place can be understood in a twofold sense; either by way of other things--i.e. as one thing is said to be in another no matter how; and thus the accidents of a place are in place; or by a way proper to place; and thus things placed are in a place. Now in both these senses, in some way God is in every place; and this is to be everywhere.

First, as He is in all things giving them being, power and operation; so He is in every place as giving it existence and locative power. Again, things placed are in place, inasmuch as they fill place; and God fills every place; not, indeed, like a body, for a body is said to fill place inasmuch as it excludes the co-presence of another body; whereas by God being in a place, others are not thereby excluded from it; indeed, by the very fact that He gives being to the things that fill every place, He Himself fills every place. " Summa Theologica

And on the evil

"God and nature and any other agent make what is best in the whole, but not what is best in every single part, except in order to the whole, as was said above (47, 2). And the whole itself, which is the universe of creatures, is all the better and more perfect if some things in it can fail in goodness, and do sometimes fail, God not preventing this. This happens, firstly, because "it belongs to Providence not to destroy, but to save nature," as Dionysius says (Div. Nom. iv); but it belongs to nature that what may fail should sometimes fail; secondly, because, as Augustine says (Enchir. 11), "God is so powerful that He can even make good out of evil." Hence many good things would be taken away if God permitted no evil to exist; for fire would not be generated if air was not corrupted, nor would the life of a lion be preserved unless the ass were killed. Neither would avenging justice nor the patience of a sufferer be praised if there were no injustice. " Summa Theologica