Political Crossfire Forums

Creamxec · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: The Decline of Islam

What led to the decline of Islam?

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Whoa... you scared me with the topic title for a while there.

Anyways, I think you're meaning the Islamic empire of the Ottomans and the Moors of Spain.

The Moors of Spain, who were actually Muslim, Christian and Jewish Arabs who were living there at the time (but under the rule of an Islamic Empire), were driven out by the Spaniards and Franks, I believe, back to Northern Africa.

The Ottoman Empire had many footholds in Turkey, large parts of the Middle East and Europe. The tyrannical rule of the Ottomans was resisted in many places including Greece, Cyprus, Austria and large parts of the Arabian Penninsula. Palestine was taken by the Brits after WW1. Mustafa Kamal Ataturk led a resistance to take over the Ottoman government, and secularized Turkey. The Islamic Empire was then no more.

Here's a detailed chronology and history of the Islamic Empire from the time of the Prophet (PBUH):

http://www.al-bab.com/arab/history.html

Hope that helps. I'm in a bit of a rush. If you need anything else, let me know. :)

eynon · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject:

How much of an impact did the Mongol invasions have on Islamic civilization? I know that dozens of advanced and wealthy Muslim cities were destroyed and that large tracts of land were totally depopulated by Temujin and his decendents.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Eynon81 wrote: How much of an impact did the Mongol invasions have on Islamic civilization? I know that dozens of advanced and wealthy Muslim cities were destroyed and that large tracts of land were totally depopulated by Temujin and his decendents.

That too. Man, I need you around here more. Looks like you're a better history expert on this more than I am. :wink:

Zeeman · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:05 am Post subject:

Eynon81 wrote: How much of an impact did the Mongol invasions have on Islamic civilization? I know that dozens of advanced and wealthy Muslim cities were destroyed and that large tracts of land were totally depopulated by Temujin and his decendents.

I know they killed alot but whats worse is that they burned lots of books.ALot of important work got lost also as a result...

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1642

i agree with you zeeman

it was and still is a greta loss!

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

I think the oroginal question was asking why Islamic countries fell behind, the obvious answer applies to historic China aswell. The cultures turned inward looking, and benfited not at all from other area's developements whilst others benefited from theirs.

pharaoh · Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:12 am Post subject:

Reason wrote: I think the oroginal question was asking why Islamic countries fell behind, the obvious answer applies to historic China aswell. The cultures turned inward looking, and benfited not at all from other area's developements whilst others benefited from theirs.

Or maybe hundreds of years of occupation was the big reason for the decline of muslim states?

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Or maybe hundreds of years of occupation was the big reason for the decline of muslim states?

Hundreds of years? You mean the Ottomans? Or the Persians? I'm not quite sure I understand.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

pharaoh wrote: Reason wrote: I think the oroginal question was asking why Islamic countries fell behind, the obvious answer applies to historic China aswell. The cultures turned inward looking, and benfited not at all from other area's developements whilst others benefited from theirs.

Or maybe hundreds of years of occupation was the big reason for the decline of muslim states?

Yes indeed. Ottoman... Seljuk... Britian... then Israel.

snow · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 669

Reason wrote: I think the oroginal question was asking why Islamic countries fell behind, the obvious answer applies to historic China aswell. The cultures turned inward looking, and benfited not at all from other area's developements whilst others benefited from theirs.

Not an expert on Muslim countries, but definitely an accurate analysis of China.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Yes indeed. Ottoman... Seljuk... Britian... then Israel.

The Ottomans and Seljuks were Muslims, Britain only occupied areas in the Middle East for about 30 years (Hong Kong didn't do so badly out of 50 years) and Israel occupies what? the West Bank and Gaza? You can't blame the sorry state of anywhere else but those two areas on Israel - that's absurd.

pharaoh · Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: Yes indeed. Ottoman... Seljuk... Britian... then Israel.

The Ottomans and Seljuks were Muslims, Britain only occupied areas in the Middle East for about 30 years (Hong Kong didn't do so badly out of 50 years) and Israel occupies what? the West Bank and Gaza? You can't blame the sorry state of anywhere else but those two areas on Israel - that's absurd.

I consider the Ottomans as occupiers. They occupied the arabs lands by force you see and not just because they invited their fellow muslims to form an empire no no no. Besides, the Ottoman empire was pretty much secular, I mean that their way in governing things werent exactly Islamic. You see the Ottoman empire was very brutal and harsh in its dealings with the occupied people. They treated the arabs as their slaves and not as their muslim brothers. It is indeed under the Ottoman rule that the muslims began to lose any advantage they still had over the western countries. The Ottoman rule was backwards and brutal so all kinds of advancements froze, unfortunately. Then we had the British and French and Italian occupation that lasted more than 100 years in many countries. All these reasons were directly responsible to the decline of the muslim countries.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: I consider the Ottomans as occupiers.

As would I, but I'd obviously misundertood this:

Or maybe hundreds of years of occupation was the big reason for the decline of muslim states?

Quote: All these reasons were directly responsible to the decline of the muslim countries.

WHat do you think are the reasons for the initial success?

pharaoh · Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: I consider the Ottomans as occupiers.

As would I, but I'd obviously misundertood this:

Or maybe hundreds of years of occupation was the big reason for the decline of muslim states?

Quote: All these reasons were directly responsible to the decline of the muslim countries.

WHat do you think are the reasons for the initial success?

Reasons for the initial success? Humm...more freedom...less corruption...less radicals and extremists.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Reasons for the initial success? Humm...more freedom...less corruption...less radicals and extremists.

That's what I gather from reading about it. Unfortunately over here in the West (perhaps you're from the West, I'm not sure) we appear to be going in the opposite direction still it's not like the trend is irreversible.