Political Crossfire Forums

[Sam Spades]

Last week I had an interesting discussion with a fellow that said that the spirit world, or the place where our spirits will reside until such a time that we are judged and admited to the kingdom of heaven, or that other place for those of us who have not been what we should have been, is actually here on earth.

That the spirits of those that have died and have not yet been judged and resurected are actually among us, just living in a diferent plane so to speak.

So that brings up an interesting thought if this earth is the holding place, where is heaven?

And how will we know when we get there?

[feederband]

As a Atheist I have no real concept on heaven...Also my mind tells me this is it so make your own heaven here....But for some reason there is a little tiny part of me that says this ain't it and that we will all end up in another place...Not a heaven per- say but just maybe another step in the scheme of things...Altough this is probably wishfull thinking...As far if we were ever to have to be judged by something I would be judge as a good person that does not believe in god, so does that mean I don't get to goto heaven if there is such a place....? I'm sure there are many who believe in god and say they are going to heven but have don't some really bad things in their life...I think I'm safe whatever happens...

[Mailech]

Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

[Sam Spades]

Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

But the problem is that I believe in physical resurrection, in other words my soul or spirit will one day be reunited with my body, and hopefully I will go to heaven and since heaven is were G-d resides, it should be a physical place, but where?

[Sam Spades]

feederband wrote: As a Atheist I have no real concept on heaven...Also my mind tells me this is it so make your own heaven here....But for some reason there is a little tiny part of me that says this ain't it and that we will all end up in another place...Not a heaven per- say but just maybe another step in the scheme of things...Altough this is probably wishfull thinking...As far if we were ever to have to be judged by something I would be judge as a good person that does not believe in god, so does that mean I don't get to goto heaven if there is such a place....? I'm sure there are many who believe in god and say they are going to heven but have don't some really bad things in their life...I think I'm safe whatever happens...

Ok, going with that small part of you that believes, that we will end up in another place, puting aside any discussion of the judgement, how would we get to this other place and where is it? And have those that passed on already there now? To you is it a physical place or a spiritual (in the non religious way) place?

Remember I believe in a literal resurrection that will reunite my body and spirit so it has to physically go somewhere but where? I am just wondering where that place is now.

[feederband]

Sam Spades wrote: feederband wrote: As a Atheist I have no real concept on heaven...Also my mind tells me this is it so make your own heaven here....But for some reason there is a little tiny part of me that says this ain't it and that we will all end up in another place...Not a heaven per- say but just maybe another step in the scheme of things...Altough this is probably wishfull thinking...As far if we were ever to have to be judged by something I would be judge as a good person that does not believe in god, so does that mean I don't get to goto heaven if there is such a place....? I'm sure there are many who believe in god and say they are going to heven but have don't some really bad things in their life...I think I'm safe whatever happens...

Ok, going with that small part of you that believes, that we will end up in another place, puting aside any discussion of the judgement, how would we get to this other place and where is it? And have those that passed on already there now? To you is it a physical place or a spiritual (in the non religious way) place?

Remember I believe in a literal resurrection that will reunite my body and spirit so it has to physically go somewhere but where? I am just wondering where that place is now.


That little part is saying in a physical place...How would get there? Die...
Those that have passed on are there and maybe passed on from their and continuing some sort of journey...Maybe we are like a Caterpillar that will eventually be a butterfly..Just a example...Where is it? Hmmm may be a different dimension kind of thing....But remember 99% of me still feels we live, die ,we rott, thats it....Kind of s*cks....I think the 1% is just some sort of hope...But 0 % in a God...

[eynon]

Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

and you'll like it.......that and what Mailech said is all I need to know :wink:

[Mailech]

Sam Spades wrote: Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

But the problem is that I believe in physical resurrection, in other words my soul or spirit will one day be reunited with my body, and hopefully I will go to heaven and since heaven is were G-d resides, it should be a physical place, but where?

Well I cannot speak from a Christian perspective, but in Judaism there are two things, one is Heaven (Gan Eiden) and one is the World to Come (Alom Habah).

in Heaven there is no physicallity. Eventually the end of days will arive and then your soul will be reunited with you resurrected body and you will live somewhere, that I guess is physical.

[Saracen]

Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

Indeed. :tu:

[feederband]

Saracen wrote: Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

Indeed. :tu:

I need to know a whole bunch more...Just can't take someones word for it....

[Mailech]

feederband wrote: Saracen wrote: Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

Indeed. :tu:

I need to know a whole bunch more...Just can't take someones word for it....

I didn't say you have to take my word for it, I am saying that you can't really know the specifics of Heaven until you get there. If you die first, give me a holler and tell me what it is like, ok?

[feederband]

Mailech wrote: feederband wrote: Saracen wrote: Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

Indeed. :tu:

I need to know a whole bunch more...Just can't take someones word for it....

I didn't say you have to take my word for it, I am saying that you can't really know the specifics of Heaven until you get there. If you die first, give me a holler and tell me what it is like, ok?

I have died...A few times...I can't tell you what its like...I guess they didn't want me in either place... :wink:

[eynon]

feederband wrote: Mailech wrote: feederband wrote: Saracen wrote: Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

Indeed. :tu:

I need to know a whole bunch more...Just can't take someones word for it....

I didn't say you have to take my word for it, I am saying that you can't really know the specifics of Heaven until you get there. If you die first, give me a holler and tell me what it is like, ok?

I have died...A few times...I can't tell you what its like...I guess they didn't want me in either place... :wink:

eh? :-|

[feederband]

Eynon81 wrote: feederband wrote: Mailech wrote: feederband wrote: Saracen wrote: Mailech wrote: Well since our souls are not physical objects, but rather spiritual, there is no physical place that it will be in.

Heaven is with G-d, that is all you need to know.

Indeed. :tu:

I need to know a whole bunch more...Just can't take someones word for it....

I didn't say you have to take my word for it, I am saying that you can't really know the specifics of Heaven until you get there. If you die first, give me a holler and tell me what it is like, ok?

I have died...A few times...I can't tell you what its like...I guess they didn't want me in either place... :wink:

eh? :-|


Maybe to be more technical "flat line a few time"...

[Sam Spades]

Mailech wrote:

Well I cannot speak from a Christian perspective, but in Judaism there are two things, one is Heaven (Gan Eiden) and one is the World to Come (Alom Habah).

in Heaven there is no physicallity. Eventually the end of days will arive and then your soul will be reunited with you resurrected body and you will live somewhere, that I guess is physical.

So basically what you are saying is that the place where our bodies will eventually end up has not yet been created? And will not exist until the end of days. So technically currently Heaven as a place to reside with G-d does not exist.

[Mailech]

Sam Spades wrote: Mailech wrote:

Well I cannot speak from a Christian perspective, but in Judaism there are two things, one is Heaven (Gan Eiden) and one is the World to Come (Alom Habah).

in Heaven there is no physicallity. Eventually the end of days will arive and then your soul will be reunited with you resurrected body and you will live somewhere, that I guess is physical.

So basically what you are saying is that the place where our bodies will eventually end up has not yet been created? And will not exist until the end of days. So technically currently Heaven as a place to reside with G-d does not exist.

No as I said Heaven is where it is, but it is in no place physical, so to say that it is on Earth is meaningless. As to the other place, where our physical bodies will be reunited with our souls, that maybe Earth, it may not be, I have no idea.

[Sam Spades]

feederband wrote:

That little part is saying in a physical place...How would get there? Die...

But that would only take care of the separation of the body from our spirit or soul, not the means for a resurrected body to arrive at a new place. And that is what I am wondering, where is that place, and how are we going to get there.

feederband wrote:
Those that have passed on are there and maybe passed on from their and continuing some sort of journey...Maybe we are like a Caterpillar that will eventually be a butterfly..Just a example...Where is it? Hmmm may be a different dimension kind of thing....But remember 99% of me still feels we live, die ,we rott, thats it....Kind of s*cks....I think the 1% is just some sort of hope...But 0 % in a God...

Then what is the purpose of this life, I mean why live a moral life if in the end all we will be is fertilizer. To me there has to be something more, there are just too many trials and tribulations in this life to just exist so we can die.

[feederband]

Sam Spades wrote: feederband wrote:

That little part is saying in a physical place...How would get there? Die...

But that would only take care of the separation of spirit and soul not the means for a resurrected body to arrive at a new place. And that is what I am wondering, where is that place, and how are we going to get there.

feederband wrote:
Those that have passed on are there and maybe passed on from their and continuing some sort of journey...Maybe we are like a Caterpillar that will eventually be a butterfly..Just a example...Where is it? Hmmm may be a different dimension kind of thing....But remember 99% of me still feels we live, die ,we rott, thats it....Kind of s*cks....I think the 1% is just some sort of hope...But 0 % in a God...

Then what is the purpose of this life, I mean why live a moral life if in the end all we will be is fertilizer. To me there has to be something more, there are just too many trials and tribulations in this life to just exist so we can die.


Maybe in this world your "soul" just lives in this human shell...Maybe like a parasite just to use a word...Maybe it just ends up in a different entity in some other dimension like thing...Thus leaving this earthly body to the grave forever....Remember this is just one of many ideas I could come up with but I don't believe this...


What is the purpose of this life?? To me its just to survive and live the best you can...To have a strong family...And to treat all people the same way you would want to be treated...As far as the trials of life why are we so special? Doesn't a bird , shark , tree..Don't they have trials they go though in life.... They just live and then they just die...Its how they lived is what is important...

[Sam Spades]

Mailech wrote: Sam Spades wrote: Mailech wrote:

Well I cannot speak from a Christian perspective, but in Judaism there are two things, one is Heaven (Gan Eiden) and one is the World to Come (Alom Habah).

in Heaven there is no physicallity. Eventually the end of days will arive and then your soul will be reunited with you resurrected body and you will live somewhere, that I guess is physical.

So basically what you are saying is that the place where our bodies will eventually end up has not yet been created? And will not exist until the end of days. So technically currently Heaven as a place to reside with G-d does not exist.

No as I said Heaven is where it is, but it is in no place physical, so to say that it is on Earth is meaningless. As to the other place, where our physical bodies will be reunited with our souls, that maybe Earth, it may not be, I have no idea.

So Heaven does exists, just not in a physical sence? So where are the souls of all those individuals who have died since the begining of time are they all around us or have they moved on to a better place and how?

[Jonah]

Sam Spades wrote: feederband wrote:

That little part is saying in a physical place...How would get there? Die...

But that would only take care of the separation of the body from our spirit or soul, not the means for a resurrected body to arrive at a new place. And that is what I am wondering, where is that place, and how are we going to get there.

feederband wrote:
Those that have passed on are there and maybe passed on from their and continuing some sort of journey...Maybe we are like a Caterpillar that will eventually be a butterfly..Just a example...Where is it? Hmmm may be a different dimension kind of thing....But remember 99% of me still feels we live, die ,we rott, thats it....Kind of s*cks....I think the 1% is just some sort of hope...But 0 % in a God...

Then what is the purpose of this life, I mean why live a moral life if in the end all we will be is fertilizer. To me there has to be something more, there are just too many trials and tribulations in this life to just exist so we can die.

One aspect of this is that God will rule for 1000 years and reign in the Millenial Kingdom, here on earth. Those who died in Christ will take part in the first resurrection, will rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years. This must be a physical body.

Next God will create a new heavens and a new earth. It is my opinion that we will have some sort of glorified body. I cannot be sure what it might look like, but if it looked really un-human, I'm not sure I'd like it.

All I know is if our old body is a seed, our new body will be way more amazing, just like a new plant is way more amazing than the seed it came from. God is a Spirit; if we will go to be with him, we must be like he is. (My Opinion) I could be wrong about this. If my glorified body doesn't at least resemble a human body, it might be a little too weird...