Political Crossfire Forums

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject:

oneofthem wrote: Why don't YOU? If you can't even see your own argument then what are you doing?

I'm not going to explain this in detail, figure it out yourself.

Clue, check your assumption.

Oneofthem, that isn’t how it works. You want to take something away from someone. You want to take away the right for a women to control her body. We have as an axiom that a person has a right to control their body, unless you advocate slavery. Given this axiom, we must have a reason to eliminate this right. It is not up to me to justify that this right be maintain in the absence of any reason to take it away, it is up to you to justify the taking away of this right based on good grounds.

Otherwise, I could simply come to your house, and take your computer. You don’t have to say “No, you get to keep my computer unless I can give you a good reason why I should get to keep it.” I have to say “This is why I am taking your computer”

It is your assumption that needs verification. You must take responsibility for your claim that a woman’s right her to body should be compromised.

I will be nice and not use an ad hominum on you, but perhaps when you get to college and take a course in informal logic, you will understand the burden of proof.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

Here we go again..

"What gives you the right to kill a fetus?"

"prove it"

"Prove what, what are you talking about?"

"Prove it"

"Answer the question."

"dont have to if I dont wanna"

"What gives you the right to kill a fetus, Mr S?"

"prove it"

"prove what?"

"Prove IT"

"OK your girlfriend has an abortion. You do know that is killing a human, correct?"

"Prove it"

(raging lawyer) "WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???????????????"

"prove it"

(defense attorney) "Your honor, can we please call for a recess? I need to confer with my client."

"OK" "Take 10."

....etc....

hahahaa

"Prove it?"

Is that all youve got? ROTFLMAO!

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: Here we go again..

Well, I just want a justification to take things away, that’s all. Is that so unreasonable?

And don't worry Sailor, I'm not gonna be around as much in the future, I'm thinking of retiring from abortion and spending more time on the Computer Graphics and other fun stuff. It's all the same here, and I'm bored.

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22910 Location: ZzZzZzZz

Liek zomg

Sorry you had to type that much without thinking.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: Here we go again..

Well, I just want a justification to take things away, that’s all. Is that so unreasonable?

Isnt that what we all want? :lol: "I need a justification for you killing your fetus" "prove it" "prove what?" .......

The question is not philosophical, its rhetorical.

Quote: And don't worry Sailor, I'm not gonna be around as much in the future, I'm thinking of retiring from abortion and spending more time on the Computer Graphics and other fun stuff. It's all the same here, and I'm bored.

What would make you say "Dont worry, Sailor..." ?

Sorry, honey, but I believe that I have a much better poker face than you do.. I'll give you this- You certainly know when to fold em.

:-D

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22910 Location: ZzZzZzZz

I'll give you 10 bucks if you explain what a circular argument is.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject:

oneofthem wrote: I'll give you 10 bucks if you explain what a circular argument is.

A Circular Argument is where a person assumes as a premise, the very conclusion they are trying to prove. It is unconvincing and a fallacy because if a person is not convinced of a conclusion, they are hardly going to be convinced of a premise used to support such a conclusion. The argument cannot advance because it is chasing itself.

I'm going to PM you with my address to send the money, and I am dead serious. You said you would give ten bucks to someone who can tell you what a circular argument is, and I did so without cheating or looking anything up. :-|

And so, I daresay you'll not be able to hold cogent your claim which I know is forthcoming that my argument is circular.

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22910 Location: ZzZzZzZz

:rotf: then you have not explained it.

Dude seriously think.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

Yeah- That wasnt explaining a circular argument, that was explaining an unconvincing argument.

So, One of them wins the 10... Got paypal??

:lol: !!!!

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: Here we go again..

Well, I just want a justification to take things away, that’s all. Is that so unreasonable?

Isnt that what we all want? :lol: "I need a justification for you killing your fetus" "prove it" "prove what?" .......

Who said anything about killing fetuses? Abortion can remain legal to a point without fetuses being killed.

And in order for you to need justification for the pro-choicer to kill something that is "a life" it needs to be demonstrated that that thing, first off, is in fact a life.

Sailor Moon wrote: The question is not philosophical, its rhetorical.

Quote: And don't worry Sailor, I'm not gonna be around as much in the future, I'm thinking of retiring from abortion and spending more time on the Computer Graphics and other fun stuff. It's all the same here, and I'm bored.

What would make you say "Dont worry, Sailor..." ?

Because Sailor, whether you want to admit it or not, you enjoy my presence here. You grow stronger by fighting with me, and vice versa. Heat and friction keep the edge of a blade sharp, with without it, the blade will dull. My good Sailor, I am your friction, and so you too are mine. Despite our hatred for each other, which I daresay is deeper than just a simple internet forum, we have benefited from each other. I said don’t worry, because despite the fact you do not want to admit it, when I leave, a valuable opponent will be lost to you forever. I know you will say I am not valuable. You do not have to.

Sailor Moon wrote: Sorry, honey, but I believe that I have a much better poker face than you do.. I'll give you this- You certainly know when to fold em. :-D

Nah, it isn' giving up. It's I've won so many times I'm tired of the lack of challenge. I'm bored. Think about it. Who wants to argue on an abortion forum forever?

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22910 Location: ZzZzZzZz

Dude. The point of this whole circus is for you to learn humility, and now consider this

When you say I cannot take away the woman's right to choose without assessing the identity of the child, you assume that the woman had the right to choose what happens with the child. This right cannot be assessed without assessing the identity of the child. This is a classical circular argument.

You assumed the woman had a right, which is dependent on the identity of the other party. This is clear, no?

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: Here we go again..

Well, I just want a justification to take things away, that’s all. Is that so unreasonable?

Isnt that what we all want? :lol: "I need a justification for you killing your fetus" "prove it" "prove what?" .......

Who said anything about killing fetuses? Abortion can remain legal to a point without fetuses being killed.

And in order for you to need justification for the pro-choicer to kill something that is "a life" it needs to be demonstrated that that thing, first off, is in fact a life.

[struggling with TGM1] If it can die, it is a life. [/struggling]

Quote: Sailor Moon wrote: The question is not philosophical, its rhetorical.

Quote: And don't worry Sailor, I'm not gonna be around as much in the future, I'm thinking of retiring from abortion and spending more time on the Computer Graphics and other fun stuff. It's all the same here, and I'm bored.

What would make you say "Dont worry, Sailor..." ?

Because Sailor, whether you want to admit it or not, you enjoy my presence here. You grow stronger by fighting with me, and vice versa. Heat and friction keep the edge of a blade sharp, with without it, the blade will dull. My good Sailor, I am your friction, and so you too are mine. Despite our hatred for each other, which I daresay is deeper than just a simple internet forum, we have benefited from each other. I said don’t worry, because despite the fact you do not want to admit it, when I leave, a valuable opponent will be lost to you forever. I know you will say I am not valuable. You do not have to.

WOW you really are psychic!!!! Tell me.. What color will I paint my nails tonight? :lol: --Good riddance..

Quote: Sailor Moon wrote: Sorry, honey, but I believe that I have a much better poker face than you do.. I'll give you this- You certainly know when to fold em. :-D

Nah, it isn' giving up. It's I've won so many times I'm tired of the lack of challenge. I'm bored. Think about it. Who wants to argue on an abortion forum forever?

[struggling reconvenes] BUT YOU KEEP RESPONDING! [/reconvene]

:lol:

If you were really walking away undefeated, then why do you have this death grip on the forum still?

"prove it"... ??

HAHA

K

::::Sailor wins the pot!::::

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject:

oneofthem wrote: :rotf: then you have not explained it.

Dude seriously think.

*sigh* You are only hurting yourself oneofthem. I have givin you an explaination of a circular argument, and you deny what is obvious. This time I did go get you a link, because you cannot realize an obvious definition.
Circular Argument.

Wow, just about exactly what I said. :lol:

However, here, lets do this. Did you mean you want an illustration of a Circular Argument? Very well. Here we go.

Suppose your opponent is trying to prove the existence of God and offers the following argument:

The Bible is the word of God
The Bible says that God exists
----------------------------------
Therefor, God exists.

The evidence for the existence of god is a set of statements in the Bible. When questioned as to why we should believe the Bible, our opponent argues that (1) God, be definition, is truthful, and (2) the Bible is, be f\definition, the world of God. Now, even if I accept the first definition, there is no reason for accepting the second. If I did not already believe in God, I would hardly accept as evidence he definition that the Bible is the world of God. The argument is circular in that is assumes what is it trying to prove. We also say that the argument is question begging since it begs, (assumes) the very thing it is trying to prove. The whole controversy hinges on the definition.

I use paypal. :-D

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:10 pm Post subject:

oneofthem wrote: Dude. The point of this whole circus is for you to learn humility, and now consider this

When you say I cannot take away the woman's right to choose without assessing the identity of the child, you assume that the woman had the right to choose what happens with the child. This right cannot be assessed without assessing the identity of the child. This is a classical circular argument.

You assumed the woman had a right, which is dependent on the identity of the other party. This is clear, no?

And you have just assumed there is a child in question, which is the very thing that needs to be demonstrated in order to say “I assume that the woman had the right to choose what happens with the child.”

And if we can’t accept the posit that a woman has a right to body autonomy, we can’t assume the posit she, or any child has a right to life either, and so you still lose.

The simple fact is, I am not convinced there is a child in question.

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22910 Location: ZzZzZzZz

zomg if i replace child with "entity A" that does not change s**t. I'll leave you alone to ponder on this..3

And if we can’t accept the posit that a woman has a right to body autonomy, we can’t assume the posit she, or any child has a right to life either, and so you still lose.

ZOMG WTF DUDE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE INTERACTION OF TWO ENTITIES HERE.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: Here we go again..

Well, I just want a justification to take things away, that’s all. Is that so unreasonable?

Isnt that what we all want? :lol: "I need a justification for you killing your fetus" "prove it" "prove what?" .......

Who said anything about killing fetuses? Abortion can remain legal to a point without fetuses being killed.

And in order for you to need justification for the pro-choicer to kill something that is "a life" it needs to be demonstrated that that thing, first off, is in fact a life.

[struggling with TGM1] If it can die, it is a life. [/struggling]

Well, cancer can die. So is it "a life?"

Sailor Moon wrote: Quote: Sailor Moon wrote: The question is not philosophical, its rhetorical.

Quote: And don't worry Sailor, I'm not gonna be around as much in the future, I'm thinking of retiring from abortion and spending more time on the Computer Graphics and other fun stuff. It's all the same here, and I'm bored.

What would make you say "Dont worry, Sailor..." ?

Because Sailor, whether you want to admit it or not, you enjoy my presence here. You grow stronger by fighting with me, and vice versa. Heat and friction keep the edge of a blade sharp, with without it, the blade will dull. My good Sailor, I am your friction, and so you too are mine. Despite our hatred for each other, which I daresay is deeper than just a simple internet forum, we have benefited from each other. I said don’t worry, because despite the fact you do not want to admit it, when I leave, a valuable opponent will be lost to you forever. I know you will say I am not valuable. You do not have to.

WOW you really are psychic!!!! Tell me.. What color will I paint my nails tonight? :lol: --Good riddance..

Well, if one of us is guilty of saying we know what the other is thinking, it is you. Did you try to argue with me for weeks that abstinence is better for me and my life, and all that jazz?

Sailor Moon wrote: Quote: Sailor Moon wrote: Sorry, honey, but I believe that I have a much better poker face than you do.. I'll give you this- You certainly know when to fold em. :-D

Nah, it isn' giving up. It's I've won so many times I'm tired of the lack of challenge. I'm bored. Think about it. Who wants to argue on an abortion forum forever?

[struggling reconvenes] BUT YOU KEEP RESPONDING! [/reconvene]

:lol:

If you were really walking away undefeated, then why do you have this death grip on the forum still?

Lets see, my 537 abortion posts to your over 1600? Who is more addicted to the abortion forums? :lol:

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject:

oneofthem wrote: zomg if i replace child with "entity A" that does not change s**t. I'll leave you alone to ponder on this.

And you have not demonstrated that entity A is a human being with rights. :lol: I love this.

<< Really is having fun.

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22910 Location: ZzZzZzZz

Forget this s**t, i'm through with you. I have come to the harsh conclusion that you either cannot or unalbe ot force yourself to think.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject:

oneofthem wrote: Forget this s**t, i'm through with you.

Good day. :hi:

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22910 Location: ZzZzZzZz

-_-;; Reiterate your burden of proof argument.