Political Crossfire Forums

demosthenes67 · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: Religion

One of my close friends and I recently had a discussion about religion as a base of control, and a shortcut to explanation. I don't deny the existence of God, but then I also don't personally believe in the existence of a higher power. I think that religion, and God, was created to explain the unexplainable, and to control people by convincing them that God wants what they want. I don't believe that life on this earth was created, it was a coincidence, random connections formed between elements and other substances that led to consciousness. I have many other theories but they are, for the most part, difficult to explain like this. If you want to discuss things, PM me.

Agent Orange · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 42 Location: Etobicoke

Religion. Hmmmm. Personally I'm agnostic. I have nothing against religion or its concept and the ideals of god(s). I think that religion on its own with no contradictions to human nature etc is perfect. Imagine a world where everyone obeyed the first of the ten commandments. No one killed, No one was killed. No loved one sent to war. No military or death inflicted by other people etc. What a great idea... what a perfect world... but then communism is also a great idea on paper. In theory religion is perfect. But people's interpretation of religion can cause very very bad things. Look at extremism, terrorism, genocide's, war, aggression etc. But then again about everything has caused pain in some form or another. Thats why I'm indifferent and neutral towards religion. It is a personal choice (may be it a wrong choice) and my choice is to be agnostic. I don't believe though that religion was ORIGINALLY intended to be a form of control for people. Just like karl marx did not originally create communism/socialism to be the tyrant of the world.

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

I believe in God, but I don't nec. believe that the Bible, as written by people, is an accurate view of God's wants for us. I have been religiously (no pun intended) watching a show on TLC or Discovery Channel called SCIENCE OF THE BIBLE. It has opened my eyes to A LOT of biblical issues, the historically proven significance of the Bible & how certain people had influence in the church. I don't believe most people can actually have an understanding of God based upon the KJV or NIV version of the 66 books of the modern Bible.

Kt · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3806

I believe in gods, so I didn't answer your poll :-/

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:30 am Post subject:

I think that there is the definite possibility of a power or consciousness greater than man. Whether it is an entity, is omnipotent, is moral, I cannot say. Whether or not it is the God of Western religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), I believe that it is not. Based on the available evidence, religions are institutions of man, not of God.

So, holding these opinions, I consider myself to be a "weak" atheist. I do not buy the theistic (Western) conception of God, but I do not absolutely deny that some sort of divine power might exist.

thebreadloaf2003 · Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 213 Location: Texas

demosthenes67 wrote: One of my close friends and I recently had a discussion about religion as a base of control, and a shortcut to explanation. I don't deny the existence of God, but then I also don't personally believe in the existence of a higher power. I think that religion, and God, was created to explain the unexplainable, and to control people by convincing them that God wants what they want. I don't believe that life on this earth was created, it was a coincidence, random connections formed between elements and other substances that led to consciousness. I have many other theories but they are, for the most part, difficult to explain like this. If you want to discuss things, PM me.

that is an often debated topic, and some universities or colleges have classes about the history and creation of religion that expains how rulers used religion to control the people like you said. its a very interesting subject

demosthenes67 · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject:

Quote: I believe in gods, so I didn't answer your poll :-/

I should've been more clear, what I meant to ask is if you believed in god(s) and/or a higher power/consciousness. That's my fault.

Quote: I think that there is the definite possibility of a power or consciousness greater than man. Whether it is an entity, is omnipotent, is moral, I cannot say. Whether or not it is the God of Western religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), I believe that it is not. Based on the available evidence, religions are institutions of man, not of God.

So, holding these opinions, I consider myself to be a "weak" atheist. I do not buy the theistic (Western) conception of God, but I do not absolutely deny that some sort of divine power might exist.

If you believe the possibility of God, then you're not atheist. From what I can tell you seem to be more of an agnostic.

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject:

demosthenes67 wrote: Quote: I believe in gods, so I didn't answer your poll :-/

I should've been more clear, what I meant to ask is if you believed in god(s) and/or a higher power/consciousness. That's my fault.

Quote: I think that there is the definite possibility of a power or consciousness greater than man. Whether it is an entity, is omnipotent, is moral, I cannot say. Whether or not it is the God of Western religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), I believe that it is not. Based on the available evidence, religions are institutions of man, not of God.

So, holding these opinions, I consider myself to be a "weak" atheist. I do not buy the theistic (Western) conception of God, but I do not absolutely deny that some sort of divine power might exist.

If you believe the possibility of God, then you're not atheist. From what I can tell you seem to be more of an agnostic.

Sorry, the difference is in the language used. I don't believe in "God," a personal entity who created and rules the world. This conception is called the "theistic God" in the literature, so I would be termed an atheist. I do not deny the possibility of some sort of life force or pantheism, the idea that everything is part of God. But mostly I think that people invent religions in order to make themselves feel better about the fact that their life will, eventually end.

I won't split hairs over whether you think I'm an atheist or agnostic based on word definition...my definition is really only one side of an ongoing debate.

nrhy · Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 697 Location: Spain

I believe in a supernatural power, but i don´t believe that facilities like the church, or concepts such as religion will aid us in "praising" this power, instead it causes differences among the people, who really should be united under one god, instead under their seperate religions...

_reticentness · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 11

I want to believe in a higher power because it's what I've known since I was born. Since I've started to really question things about religion I haven't found too many answers. What I find points me in a completely different direction than the traditional christian faith. It makes me confused so I put that I'm not sure.

hotbacon · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 3 Location: Indiana

demosthenes67 wrote: Quote: I believe in gods, so I didn't answer your poll :-/

I should've been more clear, what I meant to ask is if you believed in god(s) and/or a higher power/consciousness. That's my fault.

Quote: I think that there is the definite possibility of a power or consciousness greater than man. Whether it is an entity, is omnipotent, is moral, I cannot say. Whether or not it is the God of Western religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), I believe that it is not. Based on the available evidence, religions are institutions of man, not of God.

So, holding these opinions, I consider myself to be a "weak" atheist. I do not buy the theistic (Western) conception of God, but I do not absolutely deny that some sort of divine power might exist.

If you believe the possibility of God, then you're not atheist. From what I can tell you seem to be more of an agnostic.

No, it's entirely possible to be atheist and still believe in the possibility of god. It's called soft or weak atheism (as opposed to hard/strong atheism, which says god DOES NOT exist).
Theism comes from the greek word theos which means belief in god. A in greek means not or without, so atheism is just not or withought a belief in god. A lack of a belief is not necessarily taking it to the extreme of denying the belief. For example, I don't believe that the universe was created 5 seconds ago by the Easter Bunny, but I do know that it's possible. So I don't deny it.
Theism and atheism exhaust all possiblities.
Agnostocism is going even further by saying that there will NEVER be evidence for god (most self proclaimed agnostics are atheist).
Atheists (soft atheists) are smart enough to realize that it's possible for there to be proof of god at some point. But there's not enough now.

Shemmykins · Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject:

I don't believe in any of that supernatural stuff.

frunabulax · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 132

nrhy wrote: I believe in a supernatural power, but i don´t believe that facilities like the church, or concepts such as religion will aid us in "praising" this power, instead it causes differences among the people, who really should be united under one god, instead under their seperate religions...

The belief in one single deity can in and of itself be devisive. If your reasoning for rejecting churches is because it causes differences among people, then you should also consider the possibility of more than one god.

Super Conservative! · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 41 Location: Somalia

Helena` wrote: I believe in gods, so I didn't answer your poll :-/

Marginalized again.

Super Conservative! · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 41 Location: Somalia

Wow, one monotheist option and two atheist options.

This is the kind of poll I can get behind.

Personally, I'm an atheist, so like most atheists I put "not sure."

Super Conservative! · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 41 Location: Somalia

demosthenes67 wrote: One of my close friends and I recently had a discussion about religion as a base of control, and a shortcut to explanation. I don't deny the existence of God, but then I also don't personally believe in the existence of a higher power. I think that religion, and God, was created to explain the unexplainable, and to control people by convincing them that God wants what they want. I don't believe that life on this earth was created, it was a coincidence, random connections formed between elements and other substances that led to consciousness. I have many other theories but they are, for the most part, difficult to explain like this. If you want to discuss things, PM me.

"Coincidence" isn't very accurate. It's more like an "eventuality."

Given the laws of physics, life was inevitable.

National geographic had an article the other day about how evolution is older than life itself: even long-chain molecules competed for resources on the lifeless Earth. And that's what we are, relatively complicated molecular compounds.

I say "relatively" in the sense that we're only complex relative to our simple brain's ability to conceive of it. And therein lies the answer to the classic question "How can such a beautiful/complex/amazing thing like life/the universe be without a creator?" The answer: it's only beautiful/complex/amazing from the perspective of our simple animal brains.

Super Conservative! · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 41 Location: Somalia

hotbacon wrote: demosthenes67 wrote: Quote: I believe in gods, so I didn't answer your poll :-/

I should've been more clear, what I meant to ask is if you believed in god(s) and/or a higher power/consciousness. That's my fault.

Quote: I think that there is the definite possibility of a power or consciousness greater than man. Whether it is an entity, is omnipotent, is moral, I cannot say. Whether or not it is the God of Western religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), I believe that it is not. Based on the available evidence, religions are institutions of man, not of God.

So, holding these opinions, I consider myself to be a "weak" atheist. I do not buy the theistic (Western) conception of God, but I do not absolutely deny that some sort of divine power might exist.

If you believe the possibility of God, then you're not atheist. From what I can tell you seem to be more of an agnostic.

No, it's entirely possible to be atheist and still believe in the possibility of god. It's called soft or weak atheism (as opposed to hard/strong atheism, which says god DOES NOT exist).
Theism comes from the greek word theos which means belief in god. A in greek means not or without, so atheism is just not or withought a belief in god. A lack of a belief is not necessarily taking it to the extreme of denying the belief. For example, I don't believe that the universe was created 5 seconds ago by the Easter Bunny, but I do know that it's possible. So I don't deny it.
Theism and atheism exhaust all possiblities.
Agnostocism is going even further by saying that there will NEVER be evidence for god (most self proclaimed agnostics are atheist).
Atheists (soft atheists) are smart enough to realize that it's possible for there to be proof of god at some point. But there's not enough now.

Yes, this is correct.

Batarang Force · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 221

demosthenes67 wrote: I don't deny the existence of God, but then I also don't personally believe in the existence of a higher power. I think that religion, and God, was created to explain the unexplainable, and to control people by convincing them that God wants what they want... I have many other theories but they are, for the most part, difficult to explain like this. If you want to discuss things, PM me.

Late one night, while patrolling,... we came across what we thought looked like the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But it was rather dark, raining, and visibility was low. But it could have been a large dog... I'm not sure. For the most part, I am a non believer.

Batarang Force

beingsrk · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 5

we have not seen him, but deep down we have felt him......atleat more than once in our life...the only thing is we have not realised that we have felt him. its ok no problem there is time left :-)

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:52 am Post subject:

No, because I'm sure about my belief, though not about its representation in reality. I think reality is much complex to be brought back to binaries. If God existed, he would do so in a form so complex we would not be able to understand or fathom. Those who reduce him to a trinity, or to some other recognisable form in whatever way, don't take their deity seriously. If someone is getting punished by some God, I think it's those arrogant fellows on the other side of the fence.

Anyway, I'm here to enjoy a good cigar, and I'm sure that if He exists, he likes cigars too.

Mr U