Political Crossfire Forums

johnson · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 114

Although when I can close my open mind I can barely manage to understand why some people might be anti-abortion, I cannot for the life of me understand why the anti-abortionist movement comes across like a such a group of losers to the rest of us.

No offense here gang, but does the media look for the craziest most religious most zealous freakazoid in the protest, or do you generally find anti- abortionists to be religious and outspoken as a group?

Are you people embarassed by the nutcases or do you find them simple speaking from intense passion?

I have yet to see an anti-abortionist in the media who's not either screaming verses or adding in hatred of gays, jews, or this or that politician or celebrity.

Meanwhile, i wonder how anti-abortionists feel about the war overseas. Do they support us infringing on the exact type of society that bans abortion? It would seem to be the right wing religious american is not much different from the taliban, so how do you people feel about the war?

jlrobe · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 118

johnson wrote: Although when I can close my open mind I can barely manage to understand why some people might be anti-abortion, I cannot for the life of me understand why the anti-abortionist movement comes across like a such a group of losers to the rest of us.

Keep that open mind open then :).

johnson wrote: No offense here gang, but does the media look for the craziest most religious most zealous freakazoid in the protest, or do you generally find anti- abortionists to be religious and outspoken as a group?

Media blows things out of proportion on everything. I have seen some fundamentalists of course.they feel there has been a 40 million strong genocide of fetuses so that is why the are zealots. I am harsh against all extemist, but I take them case by case. I dont want a p***k like some flunky reporter telling me how to feel.

johnson wrote: I have yet to see an anti-abortionist in the media who's not either screaming verses or adding in hatred of gays, jews, or this or that politician or celebrity.

There are many. You need to tune into the right news. Read newspapers, journals, and non-prime time news. They have a strong movement that isnt so extreme. To be honest, this is why I feel so many people are MORE pro-choice. When someone tries to use extremism to convince you, they discredit themselves and their cause. I have learned more about the pro-life side through calm, rational people who tried to "EDUCATE" me, not shock me. They do exist.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

johnson wrote: Although when I can close my open mind I can barely manage to understand why some people might be anti-abortion, I cannot for the life of me understand why the anti-abortionist movement comes across like a such a group of losers to the rest of us.

No offense here gang, but does the media look for the craziest most religious most zealous freakazoid in the protest, or do you generally find anti- abortionists to be religious and outspoken as a group?

Are you people embarassed by the nutcases or do you find them simple speaking from intense passion?

I have yet to see an anti-abortionist in the media who's not either screaming verses or adding in hatred of gays, jews, or this or that politician or celebrity.

Meanwhile, i wonder how anti-abortionists feel about the war overseas. Do they support us infringing on the exact type of society that bans abortion? It would seem to be the right wing religious american is not much different from the taliban, so how do you people feel about the war?

I would like to say that I resent your comments about anti this and anti that.. what does pro life have anything to do with all that? I could easily say "Well, pro choicers in the media obviously dont care about the born any more than they do the unborn, now do they? The ones in the media are so narrow, they even support infancide"....but I am not going to say that. Thats a generalization, isnt it?
I could say this if I backed it up with something truthful- like "Planned Parenthood doesnt respect life, it seems, by only putting adoption counselors in the clinics that provide abortion, especially in the Chicago area." Well wowee gee...

I dont support the war for the reasons we WERE there.. I find all that oil stealing crud admonishable. I do think that the best weapon for Iraq, that we could give them, would be arming them, as a nation. Womens rights HAVE gone down the tubes, for the past few decades, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan, so if we had gone over there originally to fight for the women and children's rights, then I would be more supportive of it. Since Saddam has been taken out, I think we should have just left, but I can see why we stayed..

Anyways, why the war was started and why it continues are two separate issues. Both issues are about freedom.

Which brings me to the one thing that anti war mongrels seem to forget-

Without war, we would still be under parliamentary rule, and abortion would still be illegal now wouldnt it?

The Grandmaster · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject:

By and large, I would say the answer is both, though I might add....

People are often committed for talking to invisible people who aren't there.

Something to think about.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

TheGrandmaster1 wrote: By and large, I would say the answer is both, though I might add....

People are often committed for talking to invisible people who aren't there.

Something to think about.

The best magicians never reveal their secrets! <poof!>

Korimyr the Rat · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 983 Location: Wyoming

Sailor Moon wrote: I would like to say that I resent your comments...

While we're at it... as a deeply religious man, I don't care for the way he casually compares being religious with being mentally ill.

My moral values-- including the ones that lead me towards being pro-abortion-- are deeply influenced by my faith, and to diminish them on this basis is nearly as offensive as the anti-abortionists' belief that they hold a monopoly on morality.

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22861 Location: ZzZzZzZz

nobody holds a monopoly on morality except he who frames the world. But nevertheless, morality is singular. Just say this guy si wrong and that guy is right.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

oneofthem wrote: nobody holds a monopoly on morality except he who frames the world. But nevertheless, morality is singular. Just say this guy si wrong and that guy is right.

I think you mean ethics, as morality typically pertains to laws and common laws.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:43 am Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: By and large, I would say the answer is both, though I might add....

People are often committed for talking to invisible people who aren't there.

Something to think about.

The best magicians never reveal their secrets! <poof!>

:shock: Where did you go??

Æ · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:51 am Post subject:

oneofthem wrote: nobody holds a monopoly on morality except he who frames the world. But nevertheless, morality is singular. Just say this guy si wrong and that guy is right.
Exactly.

All morality is subjective. You cannot say that A > B without also defining '>'.

Gilbert1908 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 5050 Location: Boston, MA

oneofthem wrote: nobody holds a monopoly on morality except he who frames the world. But nevertheless, morality is singular. Just say this guy si wrong and that guy is right.

rhetorical question perhaps for another thread

If morality is singular how do we know what is right and what is wrong???

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

Gilbert1908 wrote: oneofthem wrote: nobody holds a monopoly on morality except he who frames the world. But nevertheless, morality is singular. Just say this guy si wrong and that guy is right.

rhetorical question perhaps for another thread

If morality is singular how do we know what is right and what is wrong???

You people are getting morality confused with ethics. Remember, Morals are standards, commonlaws or regular laws. Ethic is basically doing the best thing for us that causes the least destruction. We change morals- laws- when we figure out that the ethics behind them are destructive.

Since abortion is unethical, or destructive to the greater good, then it must be immoral, or unlawful... Many people think that homosexuality is immoral, because its unethical, but allowed- many people think that slavery is immoral- but remember, it wasnt always considered immoral..BECAUSE IT WAS NOT CONSIDERED UNETHICAL FOR A TIME...ad then we found it to be unethical, and it became immoral...

Its basically placing common sense and law on the scales of justice. Is abortion common sense? Not at all. Is it destructive to our species? Absolutely. Therefore, we HAVE to add morality to the other side of the scale, and at the very least, prevent so many from happening.

THAT is how abortion is immoral.. when something tips the scales that way, it must be.

Æ · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject:

Gilbert1908 wrote: oneofthem wrote: nobody holds a monopoly on morality except he who frames the world. But nevertheless, morality is singular. Just say this guy si wrong and that guy is right.

rhetorical question perhaps for another thread

If morality is singular how do we know what is right and what is wrong???
Comparing the morality of two people A and B is a function. There is an infinite number of ways to compare two things because there is an infinite number of ways to define '<', '>', '='.

Hecatomb · Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 46

Yes, but A and B are always differant, and we as humans have to decide which is more preferable for the most bennefit to our society. A or B.

Abortion has bad qualities too, you see, the descisions you make effect your genes.. If you have an abortion, and have a child later, your child through genes is likely to make the same mistake, this is actually related to Darwin's theory of evolution, and most pro-choice peoples advocate evolution..

Now, from an evolutionary staindpoint, is abortion a good idea?

Yes and no.

No, because killing humans, even if they aren't quite human yet is never a good idea..

Yes, because frankly, if parents are so irresponsible, idiotic, and selfish, maybe it's best those genes not be passed on.. I feel perhaps it's best legaly, that if people get abortions, they be restricted from ever having children again, and have thier tubes tied. If they want to raise a child they can always adopt, but should still be more carefuly watched cause they were willing to kill a child..

There's alot of kids out there that need homes, and it's foolish to ignore that.. so I think it's best for the children, that we have tubes tied, and lower the foster-problem..

liford · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Saint Louis

It's completely understandable why one would be pro-life. Although I don't agree with their views, it is difficult to argue when a "baby" is a "baby".

Hecatomb · Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 46

liford wrote: It's completely understandable why one would be pro-life. Although I don't agree with their views, it is difficult to argue when a "baby" is a "baby".
True, but you gotta' admit thier heart is in the right-place..

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

Thanks for the positive sentiments... :-D

Canadian_Patriot · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 323

All religeos people are crazy I mean if ones wrong aren't they all. As for abortion i think it is up to the individual their choice no one elses just like gay marrage or drug use.

Selfish_Meme · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 726

Hecatomb wrote: Yes, but A and B are always differant, and we as humans have to decide which is more preferable for the most bennefit to our society. A or B.
A = B, they are the same, Also for someone elses statement above you can imply morality from another moral, or A implies B, A torturing animals is wrong implies B torturing humans is wrong. A is greater than B can also be determined. A killing an innocent in wartime, B killing a soldier in wartime have a different moral value.

Hecatomb wrote: Abortion has bad qualities too, you see, the descisions you make effect your genes.. If you have an abortion, and have a child later, your child through genes is likely to make the same mistake, this is actually related to Darwin's theory of evolution, and most pro-choice peoples advocate evolution..
Rubbish, rubbish, rubbish...maybe, but a generalisation anyway.

Hecatomb wrote: Now, from an evolutionary staindpoint, is abortion a good idea?

Yes and no.

No, because killing humans, even if they aren't quite human yet is never a good idea..

Yes, because frankly, if parents are so irresponsible, idiotic, and selfish, maybe it's best those genes not be passed on. I feel perhaps it's best legaly, that if people get abortions, they be restricted from ever having children again, and have thier tubes tied. If they want to raise a child they can always adopt, but should still be more carefuly watched cause they were willing to kill a child..

There's alot of kids out there that need homes, and it's foolish to ignore that.. so I think it's best for the children, that we have tubes tied, and lower the foster-problem..
Again the breadth of your ignorance takes my breath away. Have you got one shred or microscopic particle of proof for that load of rubbish.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

Canadian_Patriot wrote: All religeos people are crazy I mean if ones wrong aren't they all. As for abortion i think it is up to the individual their choice no one elses just like gay marrage or drug use.

Gay marriage is unethical, because it contributes nothing to the sustainment to the species, which is why it is illegal (immoral is illegal) same with drugs....