Political Crossfire Forums

[F'losrix]

I wasn't really sure where to put this poll, so I won't cry if it's moved.

I would be interested in the creation of a forum for serious discussion and debate surrounding various entertainments (music, movies, TV, etc.), perhaps under "Culture" or as a subforum of "Society". Threads related to those things seem to get moved to the Lounge (which isn't for serious debate) whenever the discussion isn't purely political in nature.

I'm thinking of something much more in depth than the kind of mild arguments over which genre or performing group is better, posting of people's favorite lyrics or movie quotes, etc. that we see in the Lounge. Something where we can debate the cinematic elements that go into making a movie good/bad, or the writing/production/instrumentation etc. that make a person love/hate a particular song or musical group, etc.

With that in mind, please respond to the poll.

(edited for spelling)

[spearsy23]

It would be interesting, especially some of the debates over song lyrics and deeper meanings to songs. The question is, is this really political enough to add it under society.

[F'losrix]

The Underground wrote: It would be interesting, especially some of the debates over song lyrics and deeper meanings to songs. The question is, is this really political enough to add it under society.
The thing is, we have separate forums for "Politics & Government" vs. the "Culture" forums. I view what I'm suggesting as 'cultural debate' rather than 'political debate'. Not that the two don't sometimes overlap - one need only consider the existance of the concept of a 'culture war' to see this.

[spearsy23]

Well we should give it a cooler name then entertainment it should be "The Arts"

[F'losrix]

The Underground wrote: Well we should give it a cooler name then entertainment it should be "The Arts"
How about "Arts & Entertainment"?

[John Galt]

We do discuss here a host of things outside of politics that may or may not have political implications and those threads are moved to their appropriate forums, whether it be related to science, philosophy, abortion, etc., or in the case of threads about the arts, the Lounge unless there is political implications where we would probabbly move it to "society." I will make sure the admins consider this as I do not have a large problem with this, but I cannot speak for the owner.

However, I would like to ask what would prevent people from discussing the arts in exactly the same manner as they currently do in the Lounge?

[F'losrix]

John Galt wrote: We do discuss here a host of things outside of politics that may or may not have political implications and those threads are moved to their appropriate forums, whether it be related to science, philosophy, abortion, etc., or in the case of threads about the arts, the Lounge unless there is political implications where we would probabbly move it to "society." I will make sure the admins consider this as I do not have a large problem with this, but I cannot speak for the owner.

However, I would like to ask what would prevent people from discussing the arts in exactly the same manner as they currently do in the Lounge?
Peer pressure and requests from those actively monitoring the forum to have non-debate threads moved to the Lounge where they belong. You can tell the difference between a Lounge-type thread vs. one aimed at serious debate from the structure:

Thesis Statement
Supporting facts
Conclusion

A thread is recognizable as being aimed at serious debate when it's begun with those elements - whether or not the content that goes into those elements is political in nature.

[Melchior]

Skeptical Mystic wrote: The Underground wrote: Well we should give it a cooler name then entertainment it should be "The Arts"
How about "Arts & Entertainment"?

How about Media or Pop Culture?

[F'losrix]

Aeolus Gestahl wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: The Underground wrote: Well we should give it a cooler name then entertainment it should be "The Arts"
How about "Arts & Entertainment"?

How about Media or Pop Culture?
Mmm - no, I don't think so. 'Pop culture' strikes me as too narrowly defined - no place to debate about stuff that might be interesting despite not being popular. Once you say 'Media', then you're going to get all kinds of political debate about media bias, etc. That's not at all what I'm after.

But thanks for offering up an idea.

[John Galt]

Skeptical Mystic wrote: John Galt wrote: We do discuss here a host of things outside of politics that may or may not have political implications and those threads are moved to their appropriate forums, whether it be related to science, philosophy, abortion, etc., or in the case of threads about the arts, the Lounge unless there is political implications where we would probabbly move it to "society." I will make sure the admins consider this as I do not have a large problem with this, but I cannot speak for the owner.

However, I would like to ask what would prevent people from discussing the arts in exactly the same manner as they currently do in the Lounge?
Peer pressure and requests from those actively monitoring the forum to have non-debate threads moved to the Lounge where they belong. You can tell the difference between a Lounge-type thread vs. one aimed at serious debate from the structure:

Thesis Statement
Supporting facts
Conclusion

A thread is recognizable as being aimed at serious debate when it's begun with those elements - whether or not the content that goes into those elements is political in nature.

We cannot tell people what they should say here and just because people do seem to use the Lounge for meaningless discussion it does not mean that it cannot be used for other things. Furthermore, monitoring an arts and entertainment forum to start splitting off posts from people that did not follow your above structure, which seems to be what you are asking, is not something most, if any, of the staff would enjoy doing. That would be the only way to prevent people from turning it into another lounge -- just a place to talk about music and movies -- because you will still get people that want to talk about one aspect of it and not this full reasoned argument about the movies themselves. Movies and music are entertaining -- and that's what every thread on any movie itself turns into if it is not a political thread. It does not for very long revolve about cinematic elements and other things you want to talk about.

[F'losrix]

John Galt wrote: We cannot tell people what they should say here and just because people do seem to use the Lounge for meaningless discussion it does not mean that it cannot be used for other things.
It's not supposed to be the place for serious debate though, which is why I'm seeking a separate forum.

Quote: Furthermore, monitoring an arts and entertainment forum to start splitting off posts from people that did not follow your above structure, which seems to be what you are asking, is not something most, if any, of the staff would enjoy doing.
I'm not asking you to babysit the forum, just to be available to provide your services if we ask you to move a thread now and then.

Quote: That would be the only way to prevent people from turning it into another lounge -- just a place to talk about music and movies -- because you will still get people that want to talk about one aspect of it and not this full reasoned argument about the movies themselves.
How do you prevent this from happening in the other forums? By requiring the threads to at least start with the structure required for serious debate. When they deteriorate to the point that debate is no longer taking place, they either get locked or die naturally. This is the natural demise of all threads - including those of a political nature, which either deteriorate into name calling or casual joking - or die from disinterest.

Sticky the forum with an announcement for posting guidelines, just like the other forums.

Quote: Movies and music are entertaining -- and that's what every thread on any movie itself turns into if it is not a political thread. It does not for very long revolve about cinematic elements and other things you want to talk about.
And you know this how? Don't go trying to use the thread you moved as an example, either - because by moving it to the Lounge, you effectively signed the death notice on any serious debate taking place in it.

I've seen it happen several times in the Lounge that people start to get into a serious debate about music and get shut down by others because the Lounge isn't viewed as a place for serious debate. Just because something is entertaining, that doesn't mean there aren't people who take the elements that go into it or a comparison with other efforts seriously.

[spearsy23]

OR... Let Skep be the thread nazi of it :lol:

[John Galt]

Well I am in general favor of the idea, but I am warry of it turning into another Lounge. While you say other threads do deteriorate -- I do not deny this happens -- I fear it would happen alot sooner in this type of place you are asking. Of course, what is "good debate" on issues of entertainment is also fairly subjective. BUT one never really knows how it will turn out until you try. In any event it's not my call, nor is it a democracy here; we'll see as soon as a few certian people voice their Solomonesque judgement upon it.

[00timh]

I voted yes although most of the time the subject can be covered in the lounge. At times though there is definetly a political element in the enterainment that we watch so I think it would make for a good forum.

[John Galt]

Another question, would "Entertainment" also include the technology associated with entertainment?

Like talking about my 42" HDTV?

[F'losrix]

John Galt wrote: Another question, would "Entertainment" also include the technology associated with entertainment?

Like talking about my 42" HDTV?
I hadn't thought about that, but I think HDTV would probably be a good topic for debate. So yes, I'd be in favor of including technology issues under that umbrella.

[F'losrix]

The Underground wrote: OR... Let Skep be the thread nazi of it :lol:
Ooh, Thread Nazi - a new title to add to my list. And that one's actually a lot shorter than some of the others.

[F'losrix]

How about calling it "Debating The Arts" or "Arts & Entertainment Debate Forum" - something that emphasizes the fact that the forum is about actual debate.

[Nnamath]

no. bad idea.

look if something in entertainment makes news we have news and headlines. if its connected to politics we have p&g. everything goes to society or the lounge. enough of this forum separation. just because some of you get your undies in a bunch because some of us have a sense of humor in the lounge doesn't mean you can't discuss arts or entertainment there. what next a baseball forum so classically liberal and i can discuss the braves closer problems ad nauseum?

dumb

[spearsy23]

Are you still mad about those fire ants i left in your sock drawer?