Political Crossfire Forums

jlrobe · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 118

Sailor Moon wrote: jlrobe wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Someone please help the ol' Grandmaster here, he is confused. How can they do this?? I thought that Roe vs Wade...by the Supreme court of the United States, insured all women were allowed abortions of they so chose, and that this couldn't be overridden by the state. How are they allowed to do this?

*confused look on face...*

I belive Bush pused some new law throgh, although i dont know what kind of law or how it works exactly. Anyhow, it doesnt really matter. The state will claim that it isnt in violation of Roe v Wade at which state their will be a new court case. Maybe it will be the United States of America vs. South Dakota. Now that is a fair fight :).

The problem I see with this is that if SD gets SMASHED, does that help the pro-life movement or hurt it.

Maybe I am confused too.

Darn your grandmaster. Now you got me all confused.

Theyre doing it to prove that it can be done. This could change history. This will force the Supreme Court to assess the fetus's situation as a reality, and not just sweep it under the table as if it doesnt exist.

Ah, so it is like the classic war battles. Draw the enemy out into open battle. SD expects this to be heard before the supreme court. I hope the hire good lawyers, because I think SD would get CRUSHED if they used their own, which would be bad for the pro-life movement.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

jlrobe wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: jlrobe wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Someone please help the ol' Grandmaster here, he is confused. How can they do this?? I thought that Roe vs Wade...by the Supreme court of the United States, insured all women were allowed abortions of they so chose, and that this couldn't be overridden by the state. How are they allowed to do this?

*confused look on face...*

I belive Bush pused some new law throgh, although i dont know what kind of law or how it works exactly. Anyhow, it doesnt really matter. The state will claim that it isnt in violation of Roe v Wade at which state their will be a new court case. Maybe it will be the United States of America vs. South Dakota. Now that is a fair fight :).

The problem I see with this is that if SD gets SMASHED, does that help the pro-life movement or hurt it.

Maybe I am confused too.

Darn your grandmaster. Now you got me all confused.

Theyre doing it to prove that it can be done. This could change history. This will force the Supreme Court to assess the fetus's situation as a reality, and not just sweep it under the table as if it doesnt exist.

Ah, so it is like the classic war battles. Draw the enemy out into open battle. SD expects this to be heard before the supreme court. I hope the hire good lawyers, because I think SD would get CRUSHED if they used their own, which would be bad for the pro-life movement.

What makes you think they will get crushed?

The Grandmaster · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: jlrobe wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: jlrobe wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Someone please help the ol' Grandmaster here, he is confused. How can they do this?? I thought that Roe vs Wade...by the Supreme court of the United States, insured all women were allowed abortions of they so chose, and that this couldn't be overridden by the state. How are they allowed to do this?

*confused look on face...*

I belive Bush pused some new law throgh, although i dont know what kind of law or how it works exactly. Anyhow, it doesnt really matter. The state will claim that it isnt in violation of Roe v Wade at which state their will be a new court case. Maybe it will be the United States of America vs. South Dakota. Now that is a fair fight :).

The problem I see with this is that if SD gets SMASHED, does that help the pro-life movement or hurt it.

Maybe I am confused too.

Darn your grandmaster. Now you got me all confused.

Theyre doing it to prove that it can be done. This could change history. This will force the Supreme Court to assess the fetus's situation as a reality, and not just sweep it under the table as if it doesnt exist.

Ah, so it is like the classic war battles. Draw the enemy out into open battle. SD expects this to be heard before the supreme court. I hope the hire good lawyers, because I think SD would get CRUSHED if they used their own, which would be bad for the pro-life movement.

What makes you think they will get crushed?

United State of America > South Dakota.

jlrobe · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 118

Sailor Moon wrote: jlrobe wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: jlrobe wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Someone please help the ol' Grandmaster here, he is confused. How can they do this?? I thought that Roe vs Wade...by the Supreme court of the United States, insured all women were allowed abortions of they so chose, and that this couldn't be overridden by the state. How are they allowed to do this?

*confused look on face...*

I belive Bush pused some new law throgh, although i dont know what kind of law or how it works exactly. Anyhow, it doesnt really matter. The state will claim that it isnt in violation of Roe v Wade at which state their will be a new court case. Maybe it will be the United States of America vs. South Dakota. Now that is a fair fight :).

The problem I see with this is that if SD gets SMASHED, does that help the pro-life movement or hurt it.

Maybe I am confused too.

Darn your grandmaster. Now you got me all confused.

Theyre doing it to prove that it can be done. This could change history. This will force the Supreme Court to assess the fetus's situation as a reality, and not just sweep it under the table as if it doesnt exist.

Ah, so it is like the classic war battles. Draw the enemy out into open battle. SD expects this to be heard before the supreme court. I hope the hire good lawyers, because I think SD would get CRUSHED if they used their own, which would be bad for the pro-life movement.

What makes you think they will get crushed?

SD lawyers!

listen, I know that it isnt about who is right, but which lawyer presents the best case. Even if it is heard by the supreme court, the lawyers presenting the case are crucial.

Not to be messed up, but the worst 10% of all lawyers in California (who are quite bad actually) could get into the very best SD law schools. However, some people born in SD, may leave, go to a great school outside of SD, and then join the fight later. I just think, SD is overwhelmed as far as talent is concerned, and talent is important in law. Unfortunately.

Maybe I am mixed up though.

I am pretty sure if SD is squaring off in the supreme court, they will obviously have lawyers from around the country help, so i am making a pointless argument.

Snarf · Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 5260

I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

The Grandmaster · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject:

Snarf wrote: I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

Why do you want to see Roe vs Wade fall?

jlrobe · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 118

Snarf wrote: I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

THis is what i eluded to earlier. If not carefull, it can backfire. Using a dumb war analogy it could be like Japan attacking the US in world war II. They decided to bring the US out into open war before they had the capability of defeating them.

If SD is to hasty and doesnt do this thing right, they may lose embarrassiingly, and make the pro-choice side stronger.

I think that the pro-life camp might use SD as the battle ground to launch a new campaign against abortion with all the new data over the last 33 years. They are hoping to win of course, but if the government tells SD they are full of it, it could be an embarrassment to the movement.

Timing is everything.

Snarf · Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 5260

TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Snarf wrote: I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

Why do you want to see Roe vs Wade fall?
Because once the States are forced to rewrite into law their abortion rights, and they were very quickly moving towards a consensus like Roe before R v W was decided, the fight will be over and done with. All the usefulness of abortion as a wedge issue and a money-maker for the Right-wing will be dead. Abortion laws will vary slightly from state to state but this whole out of proportion war it has become will die in the hands of politicians forced to deal with either dead fetuses, or dead young women. States that want to keep a young and growing population will have no choice but to support legal abortion on demand up to some stage of fetal development. It will also smoke out every liberal, and every conservative with a teenage daughter, from their holes and launch the next sexual revolution, the one that can honestly deal with abortion, birth control, sex ed. and teenage sexuality. When the nation has to decided, as a people, how important a fetus really is, the answer will not be what the Pro-life folks want as most people find abortion ugly and nasty, but safe, useful, and necessary. When the majority ruled, as in abortion before R v W, abortion was more legal than not.

If you want to see just how liberal your country is, overturn R v W and watch the conservatives go white with horror. A fetus just isn’t worth that much and the science of reproduction clearly shows that as they are destroyed in mass every day while making babies. The majority supports legal abortion and that will end up being the law of the land. To this day, that very fact alone, is why Roe stands and probably will for a very long time…

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

Snarf wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Snarf wrote: I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

Why do you want to see Roe vs Wade fall?
Because once the States are forced to rewrite into law their abortion rights, and they were very quickly moving towards a consensus like Roe before R v W was decided, the fight will be over and done with. All the usefulness of abortion as a wedge issue and a money-maker for the Right-wing will be dead. Abortion laws will vary slightly from state to state but this whole out of proportion war it has become will die in the hands of politicians forced to deal with either dead fetuses, or dead young women. States that want to keep a young and growing population will have no choice but to support legal abortion on demand up to some stage of fetal development. It will also smoke out every liberal, and every conservative with a teenage daughter, from their holes and launch the next sexual revolution, the one that can honestly deal with abortion, birth control, sex ed. and teenage sexuality. When the nation has to decided, as a people, how important a fetus really is, the answer will not be what the Pro-life folks want as most people find abortion ugly and nasty, but safe, useful, and necessary. When the majority ruled, as in abortion before R v W, abortion was more legal than not.

If you want to see just how liberal your country is, overturn R v W and watch the conservatives go white with horror. A fetus just isn’t worth that much and the science of reproduction clearly shows that as they are destroyed in mass every day while making babies. The majority supports legal abortion and that will end up being the law of the land. To this day, that very fact alone, is why Roe stands and probably will for a very long time…

This isnt about giving a fetus extra worth, its about giving it protection. And who are you to say a fetus doesnt have much worth? When will you ever experience one kicking you from the inside? I'll tell ya, I would give all my money just so that all women could just feel that kick.. its worth is priceless, of course.

Furthermore, you have some pretty idealistic notions about abortion increasing the population.. sorry, hon, but it doesnt work that way.

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6557 Location: US

Snarf wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Snarf wrote: I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

Why do you want to see Roe vs Wade fall?
Because once the States are forced to rewrite into law their abortion rights, and they were very quickly moving towards a consensus like Roe before R v W was decided, the fight will be over and done with. All the usefulness of abortion as a wedge issue and a money-maker for the Right-wing will be dead. Abortion laws will vary slightly from state to state but this whole out of proportion war it has become will die in the hands of politicians forced to deal with either dead fetuses, or dead young women. States that want to keep a young and growing population will have no choice but to support legal abortion on demand up to some stage of fetal development. It will also smoke out every liberal, and every conservative with a teenage daughter, from their holes and launch the next sexual revolution, the one that can honestly deal with abortion, birth control, sex ed. and teenage sexuality. When the nation has to decided, as a people, how important a fetus really is, the answer will not be what the Pro-life folks want as most people find abortion ugly and nasty, but safe, useful, and necessary. When the majority ruled, as in abortion before R v W, abortion was more legal than not.

If you want to see just how liberal your country is, overturn R v W and watch the conservatives go white with horror. A fetus just isn’t worth that much and the science of reproduction clearly shows that as they are destroyed in mass every day while making babies. The majority supports legal abortion and that will end up being the law of the land. To this day, that very fact alone, is why Roe stands and probably will for a very long time…

I really believe those that support abortion are going to turn white with horror, because I think the sexual revolution is dead, we see where it got us, *in the gutter* and abortion hasn't made anything safer, the majority of women getting abortions today because they weren't using the proper precautions and it just was convenient to get an abortion. 3% of women get an abortion for health reasons, 1% due to rape or incest. That means (Hey I gave it an extra percent for error) 95% of women will need to be more responsible, 100% of parents will have to be more responsible with teaching their children about sex, and why to wait until you are ready to be a parent to have sex, wether you want to say they should be married is up to the parent. Thats the reality of sex. Sex=procreation, as much as everyone would like to believe it is just a source of exstacy with no comment whatsoever to anyone person in particular.

jlrobe · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 118

superchick wrote: Snarf wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Snarf wrote: I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

Why do you want to see Roe vs Wade fall?
Because once the States are forced to rewrite into law their abortion rights, and they were very quickly moving towards a consensus like Roe before R v W was decided, the fight will be over and done with. All the usefulness of abortion as a wedge issue and a money-maker for the Right-wing will be dead. Abortion laws will vary slightly from state to state but this whole out of proportion war it has become will die in the hands of politicians forced to deal with either dead fetuses, or dead young women. States that want to keep a young and growing population will have no choice but to support legal abortion on demand up to some stage of fetal development. It will also smoke out every liberal, and every conservative with a teenage daughter, from their holes and launch the next sexual revolution, the one that can honestly deal with abortion, birth control, sex ed. and teenage sexuality. When the nation has to decided, as a people, how important a fetus really is, the answer will not be what the Pro-life folks want as most people find abortion ugly and nasty, but safe, useful, and necessary. When the majority ruled, as in abortion before R v W, abortion was more legal than not.

If you want to see just how liberal your country is, overturn R v W and watch the conservatives go white with horror. A fetus just isn’t worth that much and the science of reproduction clearly shows that as they are destroyed in mass every day while making babies. The majority supports legal abortion and that will end up being the law of the land. To this day, that very fact alone, is why Roe stands and probably will for a very long time…

I really believe those that support abortion are going to turn white with horror, because I think the sexual revolution is dead, we see where it got us, *in the gutter* and abortion hasn't made anything safer, the majority of women getting abortions today because they weren't using the proper precautions and it just was convenient to get an abortion. 3% of women get an abortion for health reasons, 1% due to rape or incest. That means (Hey I gave it an extra percent for error) 95% of women will need to be more responsible, 100% of parents will have to be more responsible with teaching their children about sex, and why to wait until you are ready to be a parent to have sex, wether you want to say they should be married is up to the parent. Thats the reality of sex. Sex=procreation, as much as everyone would like to believe it is just a source of exstacy with no comment whatsoever to anyone person in particular.

superchick, i respect your thoughts, but sex=procreation is best left to monkeys or spiders. If sex=procreation, then make sure you only have sex for 10 more times in your life. Sex=emotion=love=humanity. Not that trivial. Anyhow, this isnt a debate on intimacy, but rather abortion.

I dont think pro-choicers will be white with horror. That is just my opinion. As for abortions only being for rape, incest, or health reasons, I think it is a little simplistic, albeit your opinion. Abortions may be needed in a wider array, but who knows????. There is a HUGE range between 0 and 40 million. Where should we be? I dont really know to be honest.

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6557 Location: US

jlrobe wrote: superchick wrote: Snarf wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Snarf wrote: I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

Why do you want to see Roe vs Wade fall?
Because once the States are forced to rewrite into law their abortion rights, and they were very quickly moving towards a consensus like Roe before R v W was decided, the fight will be over and done with. All the usefulness of abortion as a wedge issue and a money-maker for the Right-wing will be dead. Abortion laws will vary slightly from state to state but this whole out of proportion war it has become will die in the hands of politicians forced to deal with either dead fetuses, or dead young women. States that want to keep a young and growing population will have no choice but to support legal abortion on demand up to some stage of fetal development. It will also smoke out every liberal, and every conservative with a teenage daughter, from their holes and launch the next sexual revolution, the one that can honestly deal with abortion, birth control, sex ed. and teenage sexuality. When the nation has to decided, as a people, how important a fetus really is, the answer will not be what the Pro-life folks want as most people find abortion ugly and nasty, but safe, useful, and necessary. When the majority ruled, as in abortion before R v W, abortion was more legal than not.

If you want to see just how liberal your country is, overturn R v W and watch the conservatives go white with horror. A fetus just isn’t worth that much and the science of reproduction clearly shows that as they are destroyed in mass every day while making babies. The majority supports legal abortion and that will end up being the law of the land. To this day, that very fact alone, is why Roe stands and probably will for a very long time…

I really believe those that support abortion are going to turn white with horror, because I think the sexual revolution is dead, we see where it got us, *in the gutter* and abortion hasn't made anything safer, the majority of women getting abortions today because they weren't using the proper precautions and it just was convenient to get an abortion. 3% of women get an abortion for health reasons, 1% due to rape or incest. That means (Hey I gave it an extra percent for error) 95% of women will need to be more responsible, 100% of parents will have to be more responsible with teaching their children about sex, and why to wait until you are ready to be a parent to have sex, wether you want to say they should be married is up to the parent. Thats the reality of sex. Sex=procreation, as much as everyone would like to believe it is just a source of exstacy with no comment whatsoever to anyone person in particular.

superchick, i respect your thoughts, but sex=procreation is best left to monkeys or spiders. If sex=procreation, then make sure you only have sex for 10 more times in your life. Sex=emotion=love=humanity. Not that trivial. Anyhow, this isnt a debate on intimacy, but rather abortion.

I dont think pro-choicers will be white with horror. That is just my opinion. As for abortions only being for rape, incest, or health reasons, I think it is a little simplistic, albeit your opinion. Abortions may be needed in a wider array, but who knows????. There is a HUGE range between 0 and 40 million. Where should we be? I dont really know to be honest.

I was just making a reality check. If you have sex, with no contraception, you will make a baby.

jlrobe · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 118

superchick wrote: jlrobe wrote: superchick wrote: Snarf wrote: TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Snarf wrote: I guess SD has plenty of money to waste as this is going nowhere and will never be enforced until R v W is overturned. Nothing would make my liberal butt happier than seeing Roe go down and the real fight to end the mindless abortion debate begin. The prolifers should be careful what they ask for as the outcome will not be in their favor.

SD doesn't need young women anyway as the place is becoming a wasteland...

Why do you want to see Roe vs Wade fall?
Because once the States are forced to rewrite into law their abortion rights, and they were very quickly moving towards a consensus like Roe before R v W was decided, the fight will be over and done with. All the usefulness of abortion as a wedge issue and a money-maker for the Right-wing will be dead. Abortion laws will vary slightly from state to state but this whole out of proportion war it has become will die in the hands of politicians forced to deal with either dead fetuses, or dead young women. States that want to keep a young and growing population will have no choice but to support legal abortion on demand up to some stage of fetal development. It will also smoke out every liberal, and every conservative with a teenage daughter, from their holes and launch the next sexual revolution, the one that can honestly deal with abortion, birth control, sex ed. and teenage sexuality. When the nation has to decided, as a people, how important a fetus really is, the answer will not be what the Pro-life folks want as most people find abortion ugly and nasty, but safe, useful, and necessary. When the majority ruled, as in abortion before R v W, abortion was more legal than not.

If you want to see just how liberal your country is, overturn R v W and watch the conservatives go white with horror. A fetus just isn’t worth that much and the science of reproduction clearly shows that as they are destroyed in mass every day while making babies. The majority supports legal abortion and that will end up being the law of the land. To this day, that very fact alone, is why Roe stands and probably will for a very long time…

I really believe those that support abortion are going to turn white with horror, because I think the sexual revolution is dead, we see where it got us, *in the gutter* and abortion hasn't made anything safer, the majority of women getting abortions today because they weren't using the proper precautions and it just was convenient to get an abortion. 3% of women get an abortion for health reasons, 1% due to rape or incest. That means (Hey I gave it an extra percent for error) 95% of women will need to be more responsible, 100% of parents will have to be more responsible with teaching their children about sex, and why to wait until you are ready to be a parent to have sex, wether you want to say they should be married is up to the parent. Thats the reality of sex. Sex=procreation, as much as everyone would like to believe it is just a source of exstacy with no comment whatsoever to anyone person in particular.

superchick, i respect your thoughts, but sex=procreation is best left to monkeys or spiders. If sex=procreation, then make sure you only have sex for 10 more times in your life. Sex=emotion=love=humanity. Not that trivial. Anyhow, this isnt a debate on intimacy, but rather abortion.

I dont think pro-choicers will be white with horror. That is just my opinion. As for abortions only being for rape, incest, or health reasons, I think it is a little simplistic, albeit your opinion. Abortions may be needed in a wider array, but who knows????. There is a HUGE range between 0 and 40 million. Where should we be? I dont really know to be honest.

I was just making a reality check. If you have sex, with no contraception, you will make a baby.

i dont disagree. thanks for clarifying by the way. I saw you on the political page.

Selfish_Meme · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 726

superchick wrote: I really believe those that support abortion are going to turn white with horror, because I think the sexual revolution is dead, we see where it got us, *in the gutter* and abortion hasn't made anything safer, the majority of women getting abortions today because they weren't using the proper precautions and it just was convenient to get an abortion. 3% of women get an abortion for health reasons, 1% due to rape or incest. That means (Hey I gave it an extra percent for error) 95% of women will need to be more responsible, 100% of parents will have to be more responsible with teaching their children about sex, and why to wait until you are ready to be a parent to have sex, wether you want to say they should be married is up to the parent. Thats the reality of sex. Sex=procreation, as much as everyone would like to believe it is just a source of exstacy with no comment whatsoever to anyone person in particular.
Well back to the kitchen with you then and no more of your backtalk. You wouldn't even be here discussing this if it wasn't for the sexual revolution and feminism. They went hand in hand you know.

What I am really sick of is this accusation that women use abortion like the pill. That is such a load of crock! 'Oh gee, I want to have sex, but I'm too lazy to get a condom, thats OK there is an embarrassingly invasive minor surgery that will get me out of this pickle!' Get real, every woman I know dreads getting a pap smear let alone a goddamm abortion. I can tell you right now the number of women who think abortion is a 'convenience' is bloody small.

I have personal experience with this when a contraceptive device succumbed to the odds. It was a bloody terrible experience and there was definately no ladida 'Oh honey I'm just gonna stop by the clinic on the way home and get rid of this embryo, do you want me to bring anything back from the shops'. It was an agonising time and the decision was not made lightly or without a great deal of discussion. The stupid thing is, if there wasn't the stigma of unmarried women being pregnant (propogated by the same people who want to ban abortion), or we could count on reasonable financial help to house, clothe and feed us (opposed by the same people who want to ban abortion) the decision wouldn't even have been necessary!

Stop the charade of convenient abortions, no one takes it that lightly! Or if they do they are in a small minority.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

Selfish_Meme wrote: superchick wrote: I really believe those that support abortion are going to turn white with horror, because I think the sexual revolution is dead, we see where it got us, *in the gutter* and abortion hasn't made anything safer, the majority of women getting abortions today because they weren't using the proper precautions and it just was convenient to get an abortion. 3% of women get an abortion for health reasons, 1% due to rape or incest. That means (Hey I gave it an extra percent for error) 95% of women will need to be more responsible, 100% of parents will have to be more responsible with teaching their children about sex, and why to wait until you are ready to be a parent to have sex, wether you want to say they should be married is up to the parent. Thats the reality of sex. Sex=procreation, as much as everyone would like to believe it is just a source of exstacy with no comment whatsoever to anyone person in particular.
Well back to the kitchen with you then and no more of your backtalk. You wouldn't even be here discussing this if it wasn't for the sexual revolution and feminism. They went hand in hand you know.

Riiight.. yeah that would mean that women dont get raped and beat up, threatened and coerced anymore.. suuuure... [/sarcasm]
And furthermore, have men been picking up the role of being househubbys? Have they been getting dinner on the table at 6:00 sharp? Nope... So dont give me this whole "feminist, and sexual revolution" crap... that is such bull. Youre entire premise is that women should have some sort of gender biased role of even choosing to abort, so knock it off! You really dont know WHAT youre talking about. If you did have even an inkling of understanding of equal rights, you would say that abortion is a SHARED AND EQUAL decision.. DUH!

Quote: What I am really sick of is this accusation that women use abortion like the pill. That is such a load of crock! 'Oh gee, I want to have sex, but I'm too lazy to get a condom, thats OK there is an embarrassingly invasive minor surgery that will get me out of this pickle!' Get real, every woman I know dreads getting a pap smear let alone a goddamm abortion. I can tell you right now the number of women who think abortion is a 'convenience' is bloody small.

Abortion clinics commonly refer to themselves as "family planning clinics"... whats there to plan, if youre already pregnant? Thats another BS, baseless LIE. Well, nt that women think abortion is convenient, but the entire legality of it sure as hell is to many women. Furthermore, I hear women constantly saying "Ive had numerous abortions in the past, and I'll keep on having them! No skin off MY back!" Besides, the morning after pill IS an abortion, anyways.. nothing planned about it, just convenient.

Quote: I have personal experience with this when a contraceptive device succumbed to the odds. It was a bloody terrible experience and there was definately no ladida 'Oh honey I'm just gonna stop by the clinic on the way home and get rid of this embryo, do you want me to bring anything back from the shops'. It was an agonising time and the decision was not made lightly or without a great deal of discussion. The stupid thing is, if there wasn't the stigma of unmarried women being pregnant (propogated by the same people who want to ban abortion), or we could count on reasonable financial help to house, clothe and feed us (opposed by the same people who want to ban abortion) the decision wouldn't even have been necessary!

Stop the charade of convenient abortions, no one takes it that lightly! Or if they do they are in a small minority.

Oh wow, so you two aborted because of some stygma called "unmarried MOMS"? Clearly, YOUR income had nothing to do with it!
And please- do tell me... How do you figure that pro lifers are against HELPING PEOPLE??? For bloody hells sake, STOP MAKING BROAD GENERALIZATIONS!!!

jlrobe · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 118

Sailor Moon wrote: No she cant do whatever she likes when shes 18-
to herself? Yes she can.

Sailor Moon wrote: ... and her parents cant have her committed, literally, even before that.

Yes they can. If any health professional says "your daughter is trying to hurt herself, I recommend you comit her", then the girl has no say. I am sure of this. If florida in my be different, but not in my state of CA.

Sailor Moon wrote: I agree. That is the entire basis of my claim. But you seem to keep repeating the same things over and over, while not realising that the law should not state that a fetus has rights, just a protection from abortion, with a few added words for clarity.

I keep stating because that is the easiest way to ban abortion. It helps pro-lifers quicker. I keep saying that, becasue it is true. 3 countries have that exact wording already. It is more difficult to add the extra lines.

Sailor Moon wrote: That is why I am such a strong supporter of clarity in laws

Yep. I know your stance. Clarity will be tougher to get if you know the legal system or better yet the political/legal system. Thats my only point.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject:

superchick wrote:
I really believe those that support abortion are going to turn white with horror, because I think the sexual revolution is dead, we see where it got us, *in the gutter* and abortion hasn't made anything safer, the majority of women getting abortions today because they weren't using the proper precautions and it just was convenient to get an abortion. 3% of women get an abortion for health reasons, 1% due to rape or incest. That means (Hey I gave it an extra percent for error) 95% of women will need to be more responsible, 100% of parents will have to be more responsible with teaching their children about sex, and why to wait until you are ready to be a parent to have sex, wether you want to say they should be married is up to the parent. Thats the reality of sex. Sex=procreation, as much as everyone would like to believe it is just a source of exstacy with no comment whatsoever to anyone person in particular.

Simply your opinion. Nothing wrong with having sex for enjoyment, prudish values notwithstanding.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

jlrobe wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: No she cant do whatever she likes when shes 18-
to herself? Yes she can.

Sailor Moon wrote: ... and her parents cant have her committed, literally, even before that.

Yes they can. If any health professional says "your daughter is trying to hurt herself, I recommend you comit her", then the girl has no say. I am sure of this. If florida in my be different, but not in my state of CA.

I didnt say they SHE has no say. I said her parents cant commit her. There are always legal pathways to do this. Even the run of the mill psychologist cant just commit her. Only reccommend it. It takes a qualified health care professional to actually commit him/ her. You were saying her parents can have her committed, and I want to be clear that although they can petition for this, a QHCP has to approve it.

Kentucky statute:

http://www.psychlaws.org/LegalResources/StateLaws/Kentuckystatute.htm

A paper explaining CA law- I cant find the statute itself, but I see nowhere where it says a parent can commit someone without a QHCP's approval.

http://www.psychlaws.org/StateActivity/California/LPSwhitepaper.htm

Code: [quote="Sailor Moon"]I agree. That is the entire basis of my claim. But you seem to keep repeating the same things over and over, while not realising that the law should not state that a fetus has rights, just a protection from abortion, with a few added words for clarity.[/quote]

I keep stating because that is the easiest way to ban abortion. It helps pro-lifers quicker. I keep saying that, becasue it is true. 3 countries have that exact wording already. It is more difficult to add the extra lines.

I really dont understand how hard it is to get :

"(that preborn humans have a right to life..) with respect to natural cause and effect relationships in day to day living, that may or may not cause miscarriage or spontaneous abortions....(but do require necessary protections against abortions, particularly assisted abortions, NOT left to chance, or day to day living, as stated in paragraph.... of this ruling)"

in there... Its three lines long, and relieves the autonomy factor, leaving women to not have to worry about imprisonment just for such things as undereduation, improper prenatal care, etc....

Quote: Sailor Moon wrote: That is why I am such a strong supporter of clarity in laws

Yep. I know your stance. Clarity will be tougher to get if you know the legal system or better yet the political/legal system. Thats my only point. [/quote]

I GET the legal system, and the political system. Its all about loopholes in laws. Come on, now, dont tell me that the legal or political system will get away with a whole lot if these three dinky lines were placed into the law... Its called closing the loophole before its found.

Edited for accuracy.

Ek0nomik · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: La Fleur

Snarf wrote:
Because once the States are forced to rewrite into law their abortion rights, and they were very quickly moving towards a consensus like Roe before R v W was decided, the fight will be over and done with. All the usefulness of abortion as a wedge issue and a money-maker for the Right-wing will be dead. Abortion laws will vary slightly from state to state but this whole out of proportion war it has become will die in the hands of politicians forced to deal with either dead fetuses, or dead young women. States that want to keep a young and growing population will have no choice but to support legal abortion on demand up to some stage of fetal development. It will also smoke out every liberal, and every conservative with a teenage daughter, from their holes and launch the next sexual revolution, the one that can honestly deal with abortion, birth control, sex ed. and teenage sexuality. When the nation has to decided, as a people, how important a fetus really is, the answer will not be what the Pro-life folks want as most people find abortion ugly and nasty, but safe, useful, and necessary. When the majority ruled, as in abortion before R v W, abortion was more legal than not.

If you want to see just how liberal your country is, overturn R v W and watch the conservatives go white with horror. A fetus just isn’t worth that much and the science of reproduction clearly shows that as they are destroyed in mass every day while making babies. The majority supports legal abortion and that will end up being the law of the land. To this day, that very fact alone, is why Roe stands and probably will for a very long time…

That's a very good way of looking at it Snarf.

The idea of abortion becoming a state issue scares me though. I don't like the idea of abortion being legal in one state, and than the neighboring state claiming abortion is illegal. However I think if R v W were overturned, we would see an even larger increase in young women becoming pro-choice.

sladeh · Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 246

I hear the tolling of the Bells....

This is just a small first step which will cause the moral majority all across this country to awaken and rally to the fight. May all God fearing States follow this example and push for firm affirmation of the right to life in the form of an Amendment to the Constitution. In fact, may it be the new first Article! The Supreme Court is much more conservative now and abortion is all but dead. As dead as the unimaginable piles of humanity left in it's wake. God have mercy on us for what we have allowed to happen to the innocents for profit and convenience. Understand that in Christian/Jewish/Muslim thinking (the overwhelming majority) the laws of men are thoroughly subordinate and secondary to the Laws of God. Was the legal system of the Third Reich any protection for the guilty at Nuremberg? Be sure your sins will find you out.