Political Crossfire Forums

[Tennouheika]

It has always been my opinion that gay people are born that way, and it is something to do with genetics.

However, I need to get actual information on the subject, because my views are being challenged, and I can't actually find any reliable information on the internet that reinforces me.
That is, I can find plenty of websites with Rainbows on them, but I get the idea that they are a bit biased.

So, if you could so kindly, please provide me with research that shows:
1) The number of gay people there are in the United States. Percentage wise, probably.
2) Evidence that being gay is genetic (or hey, you can post info that says the opposite, but again, be reliable!)
3) Any information that would disprove another point. "Bailey and Pillard".. who are they? The guy on the other side told me to look at their work. Is it BS? Or what?

So yeah, I would really appreciate it! Remember, has to be reliable sources. Science journals, news, etc. Not "Thegayparade.com" or "catholicchurch.com"
Thanks.

[F'losrix]

Tennouheika wrote: It has always been my opinion that gay people are born that way, and it is something to do with genetics.

However, I need to get actual information on the subject, because my views are being challenged, and I can't actually find any reliable information on the internet that reinforces me.
You'd be better off in the library, looking up the research in scientific periodicals. Caveat - just because something calls itself a scientifc journal - doesn't mean it's unbiased - especially if that journal is web-based. Dig deeper to find out who they are and who they're affilliated with first.

What you're going to find on the Internet is mostly someone's chopped up rehash of the info, most times presented in a way to shore up some biased point from one side or the other.

Quote: 1) The number of gay people there are in the United States. Percentage wise, probably.
No reliable way for anyone to know this. One source to consider might be the last census. It's possible to extrapolate roughly the number of same-sex partnered households by comparing the gender of the family members with the relationship box (unmarried partner). Of course, some gay couples might have reported themselves as married even without legal recognition. The data's not perfect. And of course it doesn't tell you anything about singles.

Quote: 2) Evidence that being gay is genetic (or hey, you can post info that says the opposite, but again, be reliable!)
Look at the various studies cited by various sites, even if those sites are biased. Even if you have to sift through some biased analysis, you may eventually find some of the raw data. Just ignore the biased interpretations assigned to the data.

Quote: 3) Any information that would disprove another point. "Bailey and Pillard".. who are they? The guy on the other side told me to look at their work. Is it BS? Or what?
Their methodology is suspect, due to their methods of recruiting subjects. Their research at best shows a correlation, but since it studies twins raised together, one can't eliminate environment as a determinative factor from their findings.

Not to be mean, but we're not here to do your homework for you. You'll just have to expend some effort yourself to get what you're looking for.

As to theories, my take on this is that the evidence assembled from various research points to there being at least some biological link. Whether or not that link is influenced by genetics is up for debate but seems at least possible. It's clear there isn't a single gene that can be shown to have a direct cause & effect relationship on sexual orientation.

I think the most plausible scenario if genetics does play a role is for a disposition to be created through the complex interaction of an unusual combination of several genes (and not as a hereditary trait passed from generation to generation) and hormonal influences, along with unknown environmental influences. I believe it becomes fixed pretty early in childhood.

[F'losrix]

Here's some stuff to look for:

LeVay, Simon. (1991). A difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men. Science, 253, August, 1034-1037

Bailey, J.M & Pillard, R.C. (1991). A genetic study of male sexual orientation. Archives of General Psychiatry, 48, December, 1089-1096

Hamer, D. et al. (1993). A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome and male sexual orientation. Science, 261 16 July, 321-27.

J.A.Y. Hall & D. Kimura, "Dermatoglyphic Asymmetry and Sexual Orientation in Men", Behavioral Neuroscience, Vol. 108 #6, 1994-DEC, P. 1203-1206.

"The Volume of a Sexually Dimorphic Nucleus in the Ovine Medial Preoptic Area/Anterior Hypothalamus Varies with Sexual Partner Preference" by Charles E. Roselli, et al., The Endocrine Society, October 2, 2003

Klar A. J. S. 2004 Excess of counterclockwise scalp hair-whorl rotation in homosexual men; Journal of Genetics, Vol. 83, No. 3, December 2004

Here's a few links to 'non-gay' sources:

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/004047.html

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9803/02/lesbian.ears/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/03/000330094644.htm

http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/ap_050510_pheremones.html

That should keep you busy for a while.

If you make little effort, I'm sure you can find the reports about 'gay penguins' and 'gay flamingoes'. I personally think there's some serious limits to what we can glean from comparing humans to other animals, though.

Keep in mind that statistics and research are frequently misconstrued as representing some finding that the original researchers never asserted. LeVay is a good example.

[Tennouheika]

Thanks a lot.

And yeah, I know you guys aren't hear to do my homework, but I figured that at least a few of you guys might have some sources in your favorites lists or something so you could whip 'em out any time you debated the issue.

But thanks again, and I'll be sure to look into the sources you provided.

[Sage Orator]

Giving us an idea of what he is bringing up might help. Here's what I have.

Bailey and Pillard 1
Bailey and Pillard the other side
Bailey and Pillard 2
Here is something that will really help you out in an argument that involved the Bailey Pillard study.

Here are some other studies/ways that people may become homosexuals.
Link 1
Link 2

[Enoch]

Tennouheika wrote: whip 'em out...



Is that really the best thing to say to gay men? :lol:

[/thread hijacking]

[F'losrix]

Tennouheika wrote: I figured that at least a few of you guys might have some sources in your favorites lists or something so you could whip 'em out any time you debated the issue.
Not I. I usually stay away from using statistics in debate because they can be so easily misconstrued. If someone brings ups a study I'll take a look at it to address their arguments. Once in a while I'll look up something to refute an argument, but that's usually on the fly.