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jlrobe
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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I have one more comment for you sailor_moon. You said that I misinterpreted you, and that you do not advocate abortion bombing. Then why do you have this quote
"Its horrendous to kill thousands of human beings. That is what is horrendous. To stop the killing, by taking the KILLERS out of the equation, IS RIGHT. "
Now, although this is out of context, I doubt anyone can misunderstand you here. I dont dislike your poistin, I dont care for comments like these.
I know this is a different situation, but just listen to a KKK rally
"Ni$$ers are lawless and destroying our soceity. THere will be the downfall of us all. The real crime is that of the Ni$$ers that are seeking to destroy us. Killing them isnt wrong, killing THOSE PEOPLE is right"
I know your stance is a different one, but extreme speech sounds eerily similar to me. I am not calling you KKK., You are probably a very respectable woman that is dedicated to God (which is almost always a great thing). I respect that your practice your religion. If you come close to using your religion as a righetous sword against eveil, then I have problem. (Another one of your quotes). You are abusing your religion (in my opinion), and I dont think it is right.
If you really hate the doctors pray for them. Pray that God help guide away from their evil ways. Pray for the fetuses that are not born. Work harder at passing legislation that makes it more difficult for these practices to continue.
Anyhow, you are your own person, and you can do what you believe is right. |
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EugenicHegemony
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 4658
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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jlrobe wrote: Work harder at passing legislation that makes it more difficult for these practices to continue.
Forced birth legislation will be dictated and all will obey the authoritarian state. All non complying woman will be thrown in prison if they have an abortion. Premeditated murder... All doctors will be and so will the boyfriend or husband if they knew as they're accomplices. |
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jlrobe
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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EugenicHegemony wrote: jlrobe wrote: Work harder at passing legislation that makes it more difficult for these practices to continue.
Forced birth legislation will be dictated and all will obey the authoritarian state. All non complying woman will be thrown in prison if they have an abortion. Premeditated murder... All doctors will be and so will the boyfriend or husband if they knew as they're accomplices.
ahhahahah, NO
How about.
Abortions can only be done with parental knowledge. Each person considering an abortion has to take a one week course on the options that they have and talk to women who had abortions and regret it.
Abortions can only be one within the first 18 weeks of a pregnancy.
The government should be allowed to strongly encourage them not to have one.
The government could also give incentives not to have an abortion such as subsidizing a teens' college possibly if they decide to give the baby up.
Some might say this isnt fair becasue it is rewarding pregnant teens. Well that is true, but the down size is they had to go through great physical and emotional stres..
Anyhow, there are lots of laws that can be passed.
Ill take note of yours though :wink: |
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EugenicHegemony
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 4658
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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jlrobe wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: jlrobe wrote: Work harder at passing legislation that makes it more difficult for these practices to continue.
Forced birth legislation will be dictated and all will obey the authoritarian state. All non complying woman will be thrown in prison if they have an abortion. Premeditated murder... All doctors will be and so will the boyfriend or husband if they knew as they're accomplices.
ahhahahah, NO
How about.
Abortions can only be done with parental knowledge. Each person considering an abortion has to take a one week course on the options that they have and talk to women who had abortions and regret it.
Abortions can only be one within the first 18 weeks of a pregnancy.
The government should be allowed to strongly encourage them not to have one.
The government could also give incentives not to have an abortion such as subsidizing a teens' college possibly if they decide to give the baby up.
Some might say this isnt fair becasue it is rewarding pregnant teens. Well that is true, but the down size is they had to go through great physical and emotional stres..
Anyhow, there are lots of laws that can be passed.
Ill take note of yours though :wink: You don't have to take notes at all. Here a threrad on how I feel: http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44666
Parents can force a girl to carry term so no, (I feel) it's up to the girl and her own body what she does. The government (forced birthers, you) can encourage anything they want as long as they don't dictate what a woman can do with her private body. |
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jlrobe
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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EugenicHegemony wrote: jlrobe wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: jlrobe wrote: Work harder at passing legislation that makes it more difficult for these practices to continue.
Forced birth legislation will be dictated and all will obey the authoritarian state. All non complying woman will be thrown in prison if they have an abortion. Premeditated murder... All doctors will be and so will the boyfriend or husband if they knew as they're accomplices.
ahhahahah, NO
How about.
Abortions can only be done with parental knowledge. Each person considering an abortion has to take a one week course on the options that they have and talk to women who had abortions and regret it.
Abortions can only be one within the first 18 weeks of a pregnancy.
The government should be allowed to strongly encourage them not to have one.
The government could also give incentives not to have an abortion such as subsidizing a teens' college possibly if they decide to give the baby up.
Some might say this isnt fair becasue it is rewarding pregnant teens. Well that is true, but the down size is they had to go through great physical and emotional stres..
Anyhow, there are lots of laws that can be passed.
Ill take note of yours though :wink: You don't have to take notes at all. Here a threrad on how I feel: http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44666
Parents can force a girl to carry term so no, (I feel) it's up to the girl and her own body what she does. The government (forced birthers, you) can encourage anything they want as long as they don't dictate what a woman can do with her private body.
Well, if the teen is super adament about abortion she can STILL have one. Her parents might disown her, but that would be her choice. Pregnancies and labors can be hard, but I feel it is worth it in some cases. |
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Mycroft147
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 142
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls) |
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Sailor Moon
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 2782
Location: O-town, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
Boy was that a generalization of epic proportions!
1- Religious people know what a soul is, it is not a spiritual entity or addition, its just your body's life. Even S.O.S. means save our souls.. so hello.. it means your body.. save our souls from death.. as death is the worst enemy, and lasts forever.
2- Are you saying that fetuses are not human? What are they, then? Little turtles? :lol: |
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EugenicHegemony
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 4658
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
Does a cloned baby have a soul? |
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Mycroft147
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 142
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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EugenicHegemony wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
Does a cloned baby have a soul?
I wouldnt be the correct authority to ask on that but i would assume so. |
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Mycroft147
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 142
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| not that cloning is the topic were on... |
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Mycroft147
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 142
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sailor Moon wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
Boy was that a generalization of epic proportions!
1- Religious people know what a soul is, it is not a spiritual entity or addition, its just your body's life. Even S.O.S. means save our souls.. so hello.. it means your body.. save our souls from death.. as death is the worst enemy, and lasts forever.
2- Are you saying that fetuses are not human? What are they, then? Little turtles? :lol:
1. I guess you dont know what religious people consider souls...The soul is a seperate entity combined with the body. We believe that when we die the soul leaves the body. It is not the same as the body. Mayeb some poeple think that, not most religions, at least catholics.
2. Im saying that fetuses are human because of their souls. But once you deny they have souls its hard to argue either way. |
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jlrobe
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
That is very valid, and the most logical thing I have heard you say. Even though you use religion, which is your right, you still should present your side. That would make for a great paper actually. ALong with some of the other posters comments. I still feel that using legalized prostitution would be perfect argument. If abortion is legal, why not prostitution. It is a valid question. |
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Mycroft147
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 142
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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jlrobe wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
That is very valid, and the most logical thing I have heard you say. Even though you use religion, which is your right, you still should present your side. That would make for a great paper actually. ALong with some of the other posters comments. I still feel that using legalized prostitution would be perfect argument. If abortion is legal, why not prostitution. It is a valid question.
I guess thats a pretty good idea, i am not really sure why prostitution IS illegal. Its imposing morals on others on a much greater scale than abortion, if you consider abortion killing.
In the end though if you take religion out of the argument its very difficult, though possible, to argue against abortion. And its hard because then we religious people cant present the reason that we consider the greatest, that fetuses have souls. personally i dont know how anyone could think humans didnt have souls, how else can we be considered different from animals? I think that if i didnt believe we had souls then i would be an animals rights activist, because then they should have the same rights as us. The more i think about it the more depressed i get. |
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EugenicHegemony
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 4658
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Mycroft147 wrote: not that cloning is the topic were on...
You brought up souls, and I believe your collective crew is also against cloning, and stem cell research... |
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Mycroft147
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 142
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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EugenicHegemony wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: not that cloning is the topic were on...
You brought up souls, and I believe your collective crew is also against cloning, and stem cell research...
I brought up souls saying that were ignoring them since were ignoring religion, and yeah im against cloning and stem cell research. whats your point? |
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Sailor Moon
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 2782
Location: O-town, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Mycroft147 wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
Does a cloned baby have a soul?
I wouldnt be the correct authority to ask on that but i would assume so.
Yes of course it has a soul.. A soul is just a life. |
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EugenicHegemony
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 4658
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Mycroft147 wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: not that cloning is the topic were on...
You brought up souls, and I believe your collective crew is also against cloning, and stem cell research...
I brought up souls saying that were ignoring them since were ignoring religion, and yeah im against cloning and stem cell research. whats your point?
Might point is:Who cares what you're against as you're not a dictator, and you can be against anything you like, you just can't force others to bend to your dictation. |
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Mycroft147
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 142
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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EugenicHegemony wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: not that cloning is the topic were on...
You brought up souls, and I believe your collective crew is also against cloning, and stem cell research...
I brought up souls saying that were ignoring them since were ignoring religion, and yeah im against cloning and stem cell research. whats your point?
Might point is:Who cares what you're against as you're not a dictator, and you can be against anything you like, you just can't force others to bend to your dictation.
I never asked anyone to care about what im against, stop freaking out. You obviously didnt get what i said. |
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Sailor Moon
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 2782
Location: O-town, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Mycroft147 wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
Boy was that a generalization of epic proportions!
1- Religious people know what a soul is, it is not a spiritual entity or addition, its just your body's life. Even S.O.S. means save our souls.. so hello.. it means your body.. save our souls from death.. as death is the worst enemy, and lasts forever.
2- Are you saying that fetuses are not human? What are they, then? Little turtles? :lol:
1. I guess you dont know what religious people consider souls...The soul is a seperate entity combined with the body. We believe that when we die the soul leaves the body. It is not the same as the body. Mayeb some poeple think that, not most religions, at least catholics.
Well, maybe youre studying from someplace other than the bible, then, because the bible says very clearly that a soul is not separate from the body. Genesis says, on creating Adam, God breathed life into Adam, and adam BECAME a living soul.
Quote: 2. Im saying that fetuses are human because of their souls. But once you deny they have souls its hard to argue either way.
You dont have a soul. You ARE a soul. There is a big difference. |
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Mycroft147
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 142
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Sailor Moon wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: Mycroft147 wrote: ive realized after going throught these threads that once you take all religion out of it, its very hard to argue either way for a fetus being a person. People with religious values believe that the fetus has a soul, and that the soul is what makes us real humans, distinguishes us from animals. It is the reason we dont act on instinct alone. But once you deny the soul, all that is left for deciding when we become human are arbitrary points concerning the biological aspects of the fetus. If you actually believe that becoming independent of the mother truly makes one human, thats very sad. Maybe physically this does, but in reality how would the independence change the baby mentally, where it really counts?(since we are ignoring souls)
Does a cloned baby have a soul?
I wouldnt be the correct authority to ask on that but i would assume so.
Yes of course it has a soul.. A soul is just a life.
A soul is not just a life, that would mean all animals have souls and it would be wrong to kill them. |
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