Political Crossfire Forums

Mangas_Coloradas · Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 119

According to this webpage http://www.muhammadanism.org/Hadith/Topics/Marriage.htm Muhammed married Aisha when she was 9 years old.

I have read on other websites (wikipeda for example) that muslims disagree on the age of Aisha when she married Muhammed.

I am curious, what do the muslims in here think about this issue ?

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Mangas_Coloradas wrote: According to this webpage http://www.muhammadanism.org/Hadith/Topics/Marriage.htm Muhammed married Aisha when she was 9 years old.

I have read on other websites (wikipeda for example) that muslims disagree on the age of Aisha when she married Muhammed.

I am curious, what do the muslims in here think about this issue ?

ok first of all.. lemme make a few things clear

first, at that time girls and boys used to become adults alot sooner than nowadays... and it was a usual thing at that time. it is documented that one of the prophet's companions got married when he was 11 and his first son was born a year after

even nowadays, in many countries like Yemen, 14 year olds get married. I have a friend from Yemen who was engaged when he was 16. so it is not an unusual thing in the middleast

even in eastern Europe , though I'm not very sure of it, but girls of the age of 12 and 13 get married there

the climate and the environment affects the coming of age for boys and girls you know and in the middleast and African boys become men alot sooner than here in the west

did you even know that someone had asked for the hands of Aisha in marriage before the prophet? that tells you that it was not something that the prophet invented..

there is no specefic age for adulthood... it depends on the genes and the environment and of course the maturity of a person... and when Aisha got married to the prophet she was a mature woman

age was never a matter in those days as it is now. the prophet's first wife was 15 years older than him.

peace

Showboat · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:54 am Post subject:

Quote: when Aisha got married to the prophet she was a mature woman

No one at 9 has even been a "mature woman". Impossible. Now if it was a political marrage thats perfectly understandable. But if he bedded her at 9....?

At 14 girls are physically if not mentaly mature, so marrages at those ages are understandable. But 9?? What's the youngest age for marrage/sex in Saudi Arabia or Iran?

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Showboat wrote: Quote: when Aisha got married to the prophet she was a mature woman

No one at 9 has even been a "mature woman". Impossible. Now if it was a political marrage thats perfectly understandable. But if he bedded her at 9....?

At 14 girls are physically if not mentaly mature, so marrages at those ages are understandable. But 9?? What's the youngest age for marrage/sex in Saudi Arabia or Iran?

At that time, life expectancies were short. King Tut married at age 11. His wife was 9 years old.
In Saudi Arabia, I know of 17-year-old women who got engaged.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24241

Saracen wrote: Showboat wrote: Quote: when Aisha got married to the prophet she was a mature woman

No one at 9 has even been a "mature woman". Impossible. Now if it was a political marrage thats perfectly understandable. But if he bedded her at 9....?

At 14 girls are physically if not mentaly mature, so marrages at those ages are understandable. But 9?? What's the youngest age for marrage/sex in Saudi Arabia or Iran?

At that time, life expectancies were short. King Tut married at age 11. His wife was 9 years old.
In Saudi Arabia, I know of 17-year-old women who got engaged.

Yes...we know that people did creepy stuff back in the day. But this guy is supposed to be enlightened by God.

And actually Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the tender age of 6. For people that don't know, being "betrothed" means that they were legally married but the marriage hadn't been consumated....I guess this happened when she was 9.

Is that the case, Saracen?

Zeeman · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject:

The culture at the time had women and men marrying at a young age..So its wasnt just the prophet but everone else did it.It was the norm..

Plus it was a marriage to strengthen ties at first considering who his wife was.

Mangas_Coloradas · Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 119

Just so there is no misunderstanding. Did Muhammed marry a nine year
old girl , or was Aisha older when she married Muhammed ?

I am not claiming that your prophet invented this custom, but what the prophet of one of the most important religions did is more intresting than what everyone else at the time were doing.

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject:

Quote: The culture at the time had women and men marrying at a young age..So its wasnt just the prophet but everone else did it.It was the norm..

A divine prophet is not bound by norms of man. He is bound by the rule of God, and obeys only God. If he had such a young wife, it was not because it was custom, but because it was the way of God. NAMBLA is having a fieldday.

Quote: Is that the case, Saracen?

According to the hadith, yes.

Mr U

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

HomoUniversalis wrote: Quote: The culture at the time had women and men marrying at a young age..So its wasnt just the prophet but everone else did it.It was the norm..

A divine prophet is not bound by norms of man. He is bound by the rule of God, and obeys only God. If he had such a young wife, it was not because it was custom, but because it was the way of God. NAMBLA is having a fieldday.

Quote: Is that the case, Saracen?

According to the hadith, yes.

Mr U

You seem to have some knowledge about Islam. Welcome to the forums.

Well, here's the full deal and the final say on this issue.

Mangas_Coloradas · Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 119

Saracen wrote: HomoUniversalis wrote: Quote: The culture at the time had women and men marrying at a young age..So its wasnt just the prophet but everone else did it.It was the norm..

A divine prophet is not bound by norms of man. He is bound by the rule of God, and obeys only God. If he had such a young wife, it was not because it was custom, but because it was the way of God. NAMBLA is having a fieldday.

Quote: Is that the case, Saracen?

According to the hadith, yes.

Mr U

You seem to have some knowledge about Islam. Welcome to the forums.

Well, here's the full deal and the final say on this issue.

So then we agree that he was a pedophile ?
Everyone here seems to agree that he had sex with a child.

Some definition of the word pedophile:
adult with sexual desire for children: an adult who has sexual desire for children or who has committed the crime of sex with a child.
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?search=pedophile

An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pedophile

an adult who is sexually attracted to children
http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/pedophile

Zeeman · Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:09 am Post subject:

No I dont think anyone here agrees with you...

The Prophet was married to one woman until she died..SHe was older than him and his first wife..Does that contribute to the theory you just want to force feed us with ?!

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Zeeman wrote: No I dont think anyone here agrees with you...

The Prophet was married to one woman until she died..SHe was older than him and his first wife..Does that contribute to the theory you just want to force feed us with ?!

To add to this, Mangas, pedophelia by modern standards is different from what they had at the time. Like I said: men and women used to marry at young ages because they had short life expectancies. Thus, they mature at earlier ages.

Showboat · Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject:

Just because people died younger doesn't mean they are physically mature at 9? If it was because people died young so they had to have kids at a young age there is still no point in having a 9 y/o how won't beable to have kids yet. The fact that his first wife was what 40? when he married her and they were married for a while, I believe, before she died, put's the shorter life theory in to perspective.

Quote: King Tut married at age 11. His wife was 9 years old.

That's because it was a political union. Perhaps Mohammad's situation was the same. I mean if he actually bedded her then surely it would be ok to shag 9 y/o in Islamic countries??

Anyway we've all been s*cked in by a troll who want's to say "Mohammad's a pervert" :slp:

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Mangas_Coloradas wrote: Saracen wrote: HomoUniversalis wrote: Quote: The culture at the time had women and men marrying at a young age..So its wasnt just the prophet but everone else did it.It was the norm..

A divine prophet is not bound by norms of man. He is bound by the rule of God, and obeys only God. If he had such a young wife, it was not because it was custom, but because it was the way of God. NAMBLA is having a fieldday.

Quote: Is that the case, Saracen?

According to the hadith, yes.

Mr U

You seem to have some knowledge about Islam. Welcome to the forums.

Well, here's the full deal and the final say on this issue.

So then we agree that he was a pedophile ?
Everyone here seems to agree that he had sex with a child.

Some definition of the word pedophile:
adult with sexual desire for children: an adult who has sexual desire for children or who has committed the crime of sex with a child.
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?search=pedophile

An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pedophile

an adult who is sexually attracted to children
http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/pedophile

no we dont

why is the age a problem here? i told you boys nad girls reach matruity alot sooner than here in the west ...1400 years ago

and those you literally said that a nine year old can not be a mature woman... i just want to know who gave you the authority to decide and set the adulthood age to whatever you want?

and still women in the middleast grow up alot faster than here in the west.. it was not a case of pedopilia as... and i'm sure of that... alot of you people would like it to be...

aisha was a mature woman when the prophet married her...that was something normal and typical 1400 year ago and it is today to a lesser extent...just because you are not familiar to it does not give you the right to jugde or even say that she was not of age...like you have seen her the night she had gotten married or lived in those days...you did not live in those day so you can not be the jugde of their customs and traditions

and that you only put the prophet's marriage to only one of his wives and neglected the other cases of marriages shows that you definitely have a certain agenda behind this thread

the prophet's first wife was 40 years old and he was 25 when he married her... and after his first wife died... he did not marry a young girl but married an old woman who used to be his first wife's friend .. all of his marriages were for reasons other than fullfilling urges and pleasures

your western standards can not be applied on us and your norms should not be the examples for everyone to follow...

I mean just think about it ..if the prophet's marriage was wrong or frowned upon ... the prophet's enemies would not have to wait for you people to talk about it and use it to attack the prophet... they would have used against him ... but they did not... wonder why? BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT AT THAT TIME..AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT AT THIS TIME AS LONG AS THE GIRL IS FOUND TO BE MATURE AND GROWNUP...people may have just stopped practicing this norm becuase it was deemed unnecesarry or old...

and biologically speaking... can you tell me exactly at what age can a girl become a woman? I want a specific number here...

you can't answer that because there is no such thing... girls reach maturity at different ages... some at 12 and some at 14 and some at 16.. and same thing goes for boys as well...

so tying maturity to a number would be unfair ..would you not agree? since it all depends on a person's DNA and the environment he lives in

check those links and just read the

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menarche

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty

just read the definition and you will see...

the average for menarche in the US is 12 years old

in the middleast is happens relatively earlier...

Mangas_Coloradas · Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 119

Zeeman wrote: No I dont think anyone here agrees with you...

The Prophet was married to one woman until she died..SHe was older than him and his first wife..Does that contribute to the theory you just want to force feed us with ?!

I know that Muhammed had more than one wife, 9 according to one
website if I remember correctly. The fact that he had other wives doesn't really change anything. If the source in my first post in this topic is correct he still had sex with a child.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Mangas_Coloradas wrote: Zeeman wrote: No I dont think anyone here agrees with you...

The Prophet was married to one woman until she died..SHe was older than him and his first wife..Does that contribute to the theory you just want to force feed us with ?!

I know that Muhammed had more than one wife, 9 according to one
website if I remember correctly. The fact that he had other wives doesn't really change anything. If the source in my first post in this topic is correct he still had sex with a child.

As I said before, that child reached puberty. Thus, she was legitimate.

Mangas_Coloradas · Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 119

Showboat wrote: Just because people died younger doesn't mean they are physically mature at 9? If it was because people died young so they had to have kids at a young age there is still no point in having a 9 y/o how won't beable to have kids yet. The fact that his first wife was what 40? when he married her and they were married for a while, I believe, before she died, put's the shorter life theory in to perspective.

Quote: King Tut married at age 11. His wife was 9 years old.

That's because it was a political union. Perhaps Mohammad's situation was the same. I mean if he actually bedded her then surely it would be ok to shag 9 y/o in Islamic countries??

Anyway we've all been s*cked in by a troll who want's to say "Mohammad's a pervert" :slp:

I made the post because i was curious what the muslims on the forum thought about it. I was especially intrested in weather anyone would say that is ok to have sex with a 9 year old girl.

What I am saying is that having sex with a nine year old girl is wrong, but I do not know if Aisha was 9 years old or not. Not all muslims think she was 9 by the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Evidence_that_Aisha_was_older_than_nine

"Most Muslims generally agree that Aisha had reached the age of puberty at her marriage. This would be unlikely for a 9 year old. In addition, Aisha was already termed 'bikr', meaning virgin adult woman even when the marriage was discussed, i.e. 3 years before the actual marriage. (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 6, p. 210, Dâr Ihyâ' at-Turâth al-´Arabî, Beirut)."

There is a lot more about her age at wikipeda if anyone is interested.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Mangas_Coloradas wrote: Showboat wrote: Just because people died younger doesn't mean they are physically mature at 9? If it was because people died young so they had to have kids at a young age there is still no point in having a 9 y/o how won't beable to have kids yet. The fact that his first wife was what 40? when he married her and they were married for a while, I believe, before she died, put's the shorter life theory in to perspective.

Quote: King Tut married at age 11. His wife was 9 years old.

That's because it was a political union. Perhaps Mohammad's situation was the same. I mean if he actually bedded her then surely it would be ok to shag 9 y/o in Islamic countries??

Anyway we've all been s*cked in by a troll who want's to say "Mohammad's a pervert" :slp:

I made the post because i was curious what the muslims on the forum thought about it. I was especially intrested in weather anyone would say that is ok to have sex with a 9 year old girl.

What I am saying is that having sex with a nine year old girl is wrong, but I do not know if Aisha was 9 years old or not. Not all muslims think she was 9 by the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Evidence_that_Aisha_was_older_than_nine

"Most Muslims generally agree that Aisha had reached the age of puberty at her marriage. This would be unlikely for a 9 year old. In addition, Aisha was already termed 'bikr', meaning virgin adult woman even when the marriage was discussed, i.e. 3 years before the actual marriage. (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 6, p. 210, Dâr Ihyâ' at-Turâth al-´Arabî, Beirut)."

There is a lot more about her age at wikipeda if anyone is interested.

Didn't you read my link? I said that she reached puberty at 9 years old because life expectancies were short.

Mangas_Coloradas · Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 119

Saracen wrote:

Didn't you read my link? I said that she reached puberty at 9 years old because life expectancies were short.

Your link said a lot of things, I read some it but not everything.
Your link didn't deny that he had sex with a 9 year old.

If you are correct he had sex with a 9 year old child, whether you want
to call that pedophilea or not isn't really that intresting. I am honestly surprised that moderate muslims defend this.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Mangas_Coloradas wrote: Saracen wrote:

Didn't you read my link? I said that she reached puberty at 9 years old because life expectancies were short.

Your link said a lot of things, I read some it but not everything.
Your link didn't deny that he had sex with a 9 year old.

If you are correct he had sex with a 9 year old child, whether you want
to call that pedophilea or not isn't really that intresting. I am honestly surprised that moderate muslims defend this.

Didn't you get it? Nine years old was a pubic age at the time. She wasn't technically a "child", and there is a lot of dispute. I think Glorfindel cleared up everything.