Political Crossfire Forums

[OneZero]

I posted this in the P&G forum regarding the LEGAL aspects of this but I wanted to post on the non-legal (for lack of a better word) aspects.

Quote: www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/16/outlawing.rufus.ap/index.html
NEW YORK (AP) -- Rufus cuddled up beside the couch, ready for a good nap. Belly full from his favorite steak dinner and tuckered out from a romp around the house, he put down the head that has become the signature of dogdom in America.

"He's a wonderful pet," owner Barbara Bishop cooed. "My grandson used to sleep with him in the crate."

But in some parts of the country, dogs that look like this Best in Show winner are seized, muzzled and in some cases, destroyed.

Cities in about 20 states have either enacted or are trying to pass "BSL," short for breed specific legislation designed to control certain types of dogs that are deemed dangerous.

Are BSL a good idea?

I say no. Dogs are individuals, and one may act way differently than another. A lot of it has to do with how the dog is raised.

[micfranklin]

I agree. Banning a specific type or types of dog is the equivalent of saying we can't have Hispanics or some other ethnicity in America.

[Winchester]

I really have no problem with what types of dogs people own.

What I have a problem with is the owners failing to keep their dogs on their property or under their control.

I see a Pitbull or Rottweiler (or any dog that tries threatening me) on my property I'm shooting the damn thing.

[Korimyr the Rat]

I agree wholly with Winchester.

There are no "bad breeds" of dog-- and the most demonized breeds like pit bulls and rottweilers are often easily trainable and have good temperaments. They've got a bad name because some people "train" them by torturing them because they think a mean dog is a more effective guard dog or because they're using them for illegal gambling.

If we want to control dangerous dogs, we need to step up the penalties on people who abuse animals and then fail to control them.

[OneZero]

Winchester wrote: I really have no problem with what types of dogs people own.

What I have a problem with is the owners failing to keep their dogs on their property or under their control.

I do too, but to ban a breed just because a couple people are stupid is like banning guns because a few people are stupid. People don't believe this but pit bulls et al can actually be very affectionate dogs.

Quote: I see a Pitbull or Rottweiler (or any dog that tries threatening me) on my property I'm shooting the damn thing.

Roger that.

[Winchester]

OneZero wrote: Winchester wrote: I really have no problem with what types of dogs people own.

What I have a problem with is the owners failing to keep their dogs on their property or under their control.

I do too, but to ban a breed just because a couple people are stupid is like banning guns because a few people are stupid. People don't believe this but pit bulls et al can actually be very affectionate dogs.

Just to clairify, I'm against breed banning. It's the stupid people I'ld like to ban.

[OneZero]

Winchester wrote:
Just to clairify, I'm against breed banning. It's the stupid people I'ld like to ban.

I'll sign that petition. :-D

[micfranklin]

OneZero wrote: Winchester wrote:
Just to clairify, I'm against breed banning. It's the stupid people I'ld like to ban.

I'll sign that petition. :-D

I'd second that, because people will immediately go after the dog and thinking it's the problem, but never the person who should be keeping track of the dog and whatnot. Irresponsibility is the bane of existence for pit bulls and rottweilers nowadays.

And if a stray dog was on my lawn, I wouldn't kill it at all.

[Winchester]

micfranklin wrote: OneZero wrote: Winchester wrote:
Just to clairify, I'm against breed banning. It's the stupid people I'ld like to ban.

I'll sign that petition. :-D

I'd second that, because people will immediately go after the dog and thinking it's the problem, but never the person who should be keeping track of the dog and whatnot. Irresponsibility is the bane of existence for pit bulls and rottweilers nowadays.

And if a stray dog was on my lawn, I wouldn't kill it at all.

Even if it was threatening you or your kids?

While growing up a good friend of mine's brother was severly attacked by the neighbors German Shepard (on the loose), tore up his face and ear pretty bad leaving permanent scarring. The dog was mean and loose way too often and should have been taken out long before the incident happened.

Granted 99% of strays are not mean and I wouldn't ever harm them. I do spray them with the hose when they take a dump in my yard and I've been know to take the shovel and take the deposit back to the owner.

[micfranklin]

Winchester wrote: micfranklin wrote: OneZero wrote: Winchester wrote:
Just to clairify, I'm against breed banning. It's the stupid people I'ld like to ban.

I'll sign that petition. :-D

I'd second that, because people will immediately go after the dog and thinking it's the problem, but never the person who should be keeping track of the dog and whatnot. Irresponsibility is the bane of existence for pit bulls and rottweilers nowadays.

And if a stray dog was on my lawn, I wouldn't kill it at all.

Even if it was threatening you or your kids?

While growing up a good friend of mine's brother was severly attacked by the neighbors German Shepard (on the loose), tore up his face and ear pretty bad leaving permanent scarring. The dog was mean and loose way too often and should have been taken out long before the incident happened.

Granted 99% of strays are not mean and I wouldn't ever harm them. I do spray them with the hose when they take a dump in my yard and I've been know to take the shovel and take the deposit back to the owner.

I won't have kids for the stray dogs to threaten. But if I did, I probably wouldn't have the courage to kill someone else's animal, but I'd at least tackle it or tranquilize it or something along those lines.

[TNBiologist]

If I had kids and a stray was threatening them I would have no issues with shooting it. That being said I do not believe in breed bans, they are the same as gun bans. A feel good knee-jerk response that does not solve anything. I lived in Dade County Florida for a year and they have a pitbull and rot ban. Every good dog owner with one of those breeds either put theirs down or moved out of the county but you still had fighting rings. The people that obeyed the ban had dogs that I would have let a child play with but now all that is left are pits that I would not get near.

By the way Micfranklin, I like your signature. I think that quote originally came from a USMC Catholic Chaplain. I have his name somewhere.

[micfranklin]

TNBiologist wrote: If I had kids and a stray was threatening them I would have no issues with shooting it. That being said I do not believe in breed bans, they are the same as gun bans. A feel good knee-jerk response that does not solve anything. I lived in Dade County Florida for a year and they have a pitbull and rot ban. Every good dog owner with one of those breeds either put theirs down or moved out of the county but you still had fighting rings. The people that obeyed the ban had dogs that I would have let a child play with but now all that is left are pits that I would not get near.

By the way Micfranklin, I like your signature. I think that quote originally came from a USMC Catholic Chaplain. I have his name somewhere.

Thanks, and I like yours, too. Now if we could only get people to listen.

[Winchester]

Here's a timely article, just happened yesterday North of me. Tragedy.

Quote: Ulm boy dies after mauling
By JARED MILLER
Tribune Regional Reporter

ULM—The 4-year-old victim of Thursday's dog mauling in Ulm died after emergency surgery early Friday.

Surgeons toiled for more than five hours to repair Dominic Giordano's severely damaged neck and face. He succumbed just after midnight.

His mother, Emma Giordano, discovered the attack at about 4:40 p.m. The boy had been playing unsupervised with the family dog for about 15 minutes, Cascade County Sheriff David Castle said.

The father, Michael Giordano, was in Colorado at the time and immediately flew to Great Falls. The couple has a 7-year-old daughter.

The 3-year-old male Rottweiler belonged to Tina and Matt Jones, the victim's aunt and uncle. It was euthanized at the request of the family, Castle said.

The Sheriff's Office is investigating and will turn over its findings to the county attorney for review, though Castle said he doubted any criminal charges will result.

Gene Meeks, a friend of the victim's family, described the Giordanos as "the neatest people in the world."

"There's this mentality of the guy living in the cabin with the Rottweilers," Meeks said. "That's not what this is. This family really is a class act."

In Ulm, residents were shocked to learn of the boy's death, some lashing out with angry comments about the dog, according to Lynn Staigmiller, manager at Quigley's Quickstop.

Animal experts, meanwhile, cautioned against pointing fingers at the Rottweiler breed, arguing that many factors could have led to the attack.

The Joneses kept at least three dogs, including two Rottweilers, at their home at 4 Lake Street.

The animals were family pets and were friendly with children, Meeks said.

"The kids would play with them and roll with them and everything else," Meeks said. "These dogs weren't aggressive at all."

The Giordano family had been staying with the Joneses for about two months. Matt Jones and Emma Giordano are siblings.

On Thursday, Emma Giordano gave her son permission to play in the backyard with the dogs, which are housed in chain-link kennels.

It's unclear if the boy released the dogs from their pens or if they already were free to roam the yard, Castle said.

It's also unclear if the boy did something to incite the dog to attack, Castle said. Nobody witnessed the mauling.

The mother returned to find the 88-pound dog standing over her son. It immediately moved away, and the Giordano's 7-year-old daughter led the dog to the house, Castle said.

The boy suffered extensive neck, torso, leg and head injuries.

Emma Giordano, who is stationed at Malmstrom Air Force Base, called 9-1-1, and paramedics responded within 10 minutes.

Mercy Flight rushed the boy to Benefis East, where he went into emergency surgery.

It doesn't appear that the dog had a history of behavior problems, at least none reported to the authorities, Castle said.

A local veterinarian euthanized the dog and its body will be tested for rabies, Castle said.

At the Quickstop in Ulm, Staigmiller assumed the difficult job of telling inquiring customers about Dominic's death.

"Shock and outrage are the two things I've heard the most," Staigmiller said. "That should never have happened.

"Everybody is praying for the family, she added.

Clara Frieberg, who lives across the street from the Joneses, said they are good neighbors and take care of their dogs.

"I don't know why the dog would turn on him, because that was a nice dog," Frieberg said.

Susan Overfield, a specialist in dog psychology in Great Falls, said any number of things could have triggered the attack.

Young children often make sudden moves and high-pitched noises that can incite dogs' predatory instincts.

Large dogs sometimes try to assert dominance over small children, especially if adults are not present.

Micki Lague, a Great Falls veterinarian, said parents should be wary of leaving dogs alone with small children.

"Any breed of dog can do this," Lague said. "Not all breeds are physically capable of killing a child like that. But any breed can show aggressive tendencies."

Reach Tribune Regional Reporter Jared Miller at (406) 791-6573, (800) 438-6600 or at jarmille@greatfal.gannett.com.

Originally published February 25, 2006

www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060225/NEWS01/602250302/1002

Apparently a very good family dog and no one thought there would be a problem. Unfortuneately the mistake was letting a 4 year old play unsupervised with dogs that outweighted him regardless of the breed.