Political Crossfire Forums

brendan101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 16 Location: houston

Though I'm only 16, I've thought about the existence of god quite a lot. I'm not sure what I am. I enjoy the tenents of both judaism and christianity because of the good morals and high standards expected. I like the buddhist idea that life is suffering, and the only way out is through a life of no extremes, and confucian teachings of love and respect for the family (though confucianism is arguably not a religion). However I've come to believe that religion is merely just created by humans to cope with what we don't understand. I'd make a chart, but the number of non-believers has increased with every scientific discovery. As we discover more and more about life, the less and less we need a god. To me, it seems a god made out of ignorance 2000 years ago (christian) or 5500 (jewish) or 1600 (muslim) is a religion i WANT to follow. I want to believe in something, just not believe for the sake of believing. I want to truly believe something. Many of my christian friends say without a doubt they know god exists, my jewish friends say without a doubt god exists within all of us. I want to know what this means.

Kt · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3806

brendan101 wrote: Though I'm only 16, I've thought about the existence of god quite a lot. I'm not sure what I am. I enjoy the tenents of both judaism and christianity because of the good morals and high standards expected. I like the buddhist idea that life is suffering, and the only way out is through a life of no extremes, and confucian teachings of love and respect for the family (though confucianism is arguably not a religion). However I've come to believe that religion is merely just created by humans to cope with what we don't understand. I'd make a chart, but the number of non-believers has increased with every scientific discovery. As we discover more and more about life, the less and less we need a god. To me, it seems a god made out of ignorance 2000 years ago (christian) or 5500 (jewish) or 1600 (muslim) is a religion i WANT to follow. I want to believe in something, just not believe for the sake of believing. I want to truly believe something. Many of my christian friends say without a doubt they know god exists, my jewish friends say without a doubt god exists within all of us. I want to know what this means.
Do you want religion in your life because you feel it would provide something secular life does not?

THEXRATED · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2866 Location: Tuonelan Virrat

Have you read the holy books from any of those religions?

Helena posts an excellent question. What you really should do is read and read from different sources both supporting and negating arguments.

Secondary Oak · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 3418 Location: Haifa

brendan101 wrote: Though I'm only 16, I've thought about the existence of god quite a lot. I'm not sure what I am. I enjoy the tenents of both judaism and christianity because of the good morals and high standards expected. I like the buddhist idea that life is suffering, and the only way out is through a life of no extremes, and confucian teachings of love and respect for the family (though confucianism is arguably not a religion).
You don't have to be baptized in order to lead a moral life. You don't have to pray 3 times a day in order to lead a life of no extremes. You don't have to believe in supernatural entities in order to love and respect your family.

And you seem to already know this.

Quote: However I've come to believe that religion is merely just created by humans to cope with what we don't understand. I'd make a chart, but the number of non-believers has increased with every scientific discovery. As we discover more and more about life, the less and less we need a god. To me, it seems a god made out of ignorance 2000 years ago (christian) or 5500 (jewish) or 1600 (muslim) is a religion i WANT to follow.
Spot-on.

Quote: I want to believe in something, just not believe for the sake of believing. I want to truly believe something. Many of my christian friends say without a doubt they know god exists, my jewish friends say without a doubt god exists within all of us. I want to know what this means.
Everybody wants to believe in something. That's the very reason for the creation of religions in the first place.

I chose to believe in mankind instead of divine intervention. I'm not sure my choice is a good one, but believing in the supernatural just doesn't cut it for me.

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5537 Location: Dreamland, NC

brendan101 wrote: Though I'm only 16, I've thought about the existence of god quite a lot. I'm not sure what I am. I enjoy the tenents of both judaism and christianity because of the good morals and high standards expected. I like the buddhist idea that life is suffering, and the only way out is through a life of no extremes, and confucian teachings of love and respect for the family (though confucianism is arguably not a religion). However I've come to believe that religion is merely just created by humans to cope with what we don't understand. I'd make a chart, but the number of non-believers has increased with every scientific discovery. As we discover more and more about life, the less and less we need a god. To me, it seems a god made out of ignorance 2000 years ago (christian) or 5500 (jewish) or 1600 (muslim) is a religion i WANT to follow. I want to believe in something, just not believe for the sake of believing. I want to truly believe something. Many of my christian friends say without a doubt they know god exists, my jewish friends say without a doubt god exists within all of us. I want to know what this means.

You are searching for the same thing every person is seraching for, universal truth. I am Catholic because I believe that religion to be the truth. IF you would like me to elaborate on the tenants of the Catholic Faith I will be more than happy to. But for now I will give you reasons why I believe in some form of a supreme being.

You bring up many interesting points in your post. One of which is that science seems to not affirm faith. That is a common misconception, reason and faith walk hand in hand. I for one am a true believer that God created a perfect existance in which cause and effect rule supreme. Have you ever paused and just thought how perfect our existence really is. Where for every cause there is a reaction and how ever miniscule detail is a part of a bigger but necessarily more important model. The existence of a being that lives within existence itself is the most logical conclusion. I believe mathematics to be the representation of that universe. I also believe philosophy is the means in which to interpret that reason in to a human form. If you have any questions at all feel free to ask.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

One does not need a religion or a law for that matter to possess moral values. One does not need society to give them to you either. Moral values can stem from reason.

A religious man may not commit a crime for fear of divine retribution.

A good citizen may not commit a crime because the state says not to.

A weak-willed man may not commit a crime because society says not to.

A truly moral man will not commit a crime as some things are objectively wrong, regardless of god, society or law.

Snarf · Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 5459

brendan101 wrote: Though I'm only 16, I've thought about the existence of god quite a lot. I'm not sure what I am. I enjoy the tenents of both judaism and christianity because of the good morals and high standards expected. I like the buddhist idea that life is suffering, and the only way out is through a life of no extremes, and confucian teachings of love and respect for the family (though confucianism is arguably not a religion). However I've come to believe that religion is merely just created by humans to cope with what we don't understand. I'd make a chart, but the number of non-believers has increased with every scientific discovery. As we discover more and more about life, the less and less we need a god. To me, it seems a god made out of ignorance 2000 years ago (christian) or 5500 (jewish) or 1600 (muslim) is a religion i WANT to follow. I want to believe in something, just not believe for the sake of believing. I want to truly believe something. Many of my christian friends say without a doubt they know god exists, my jewish friends say without a doubt god exists within all of us. I want to know what this means.
Wherever you go, there you are. God, if He exists, goes with you as He is in all things...

"The opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty. Certainty is missing the point entirely. Faith includes noticing the mess, the emptiness and discomfort, and letting it be there until some light returns. Faith also means reaching deeply within, for the sense one was born with."
~ Anne Lamott

TheKrava · Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 564 Location: Minneapolis, MN

brendan101
I had the same thoughts when I was 15........
and I ended up becoming an atheist.

Because it would be stupid to follow any religion if you don't have faith in it.

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

brendan101 wrote: Though I'm only 16, I've thought about the existence of god quite a lot. I'm not sure what I am. I enjoy the tenents of both judaism and christianity because of the good morals and high standards expected. I like the buddhist idea that life is suffering, and the only way out is through a life of no extremes, and confucian teachings of love and respect for the family (though confucianism is arguably not a religion). However I've come to believe that religion is merely just created by humans to cope with what we don't understand. I'd make a chart, but the number of non-believers has increased with every scientific discovery. As we discover more and more about life, the less and less we need a god. To me, it seems a god made out of ignorance 2000 years ago (christian) or 5500 (jewish) or 1600 (muslim) is a religion i WANT to follow. I want to believe in something, just not believe for the sake of believing. I want to truly believe something. Many of my christian friends say without a doubt they know god exists, my jewish friends say without a doubt god exists within all of us. I want to know what this means.

Oh, sweetie, I can assure you- there is definately a God. He designed everything just for us, and I am about to prove that to you beyond a shodow of a doubt.

Science also makes up stuff, too, so I really hope you take a peek at these sites.

One thing to remember, God is the creator, and our Father. Like any father, he CAN control everything, but he chooses to allow us to live our own lives. He wants only the best for us. Oh yeah and "hell" is just another name for death, the hole in the ground you go to when you die. All that "fire" stuff, were just words used to reassure people that death is the biggest enemy we have. Hence, our fear of dying. Really, how many of us REALLY think we are going to go to some firey place? No we wont. God loves us, and he would never do something like that! He knows, though, that when we die, that we end- we are finished. our "souls" are our bodies, our living selves. The bible is a really good source for this information, as well... I would suggest reading about 4-5 chapters a day for about a year- and you will finish in that time. Take notes of the stories you dont understand, and when you see verses quoted from the bible, go to your bible and read the entire chapter, to ensure that you get the full meaning. Some verses will mean one thing if read alone, but mean something different is read along with the story and context they are written.

Also, with the evolutionists, of all the proof they have tried to present, they have only found proof that the Bible is telling the truth.
Some, or much of the stuff they have said, is very made up, exaggerated "millions of years"??? How would a dang rock or bone survive that long? C'mon....

Heres some stuff to start you out:

PROOFS:

http://www.godandscience.org/slideshows.html
http://nwcreation.net/dinosaurs.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dinosaurs27aug27,0,3988775,full.story?coll=la-home-local
http://www.exn.ca/Html/Templates/topicpage.cfm?ID=20000121-56&Topic=Dinosaur
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com/index.html
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dinocarving.html
http://www.sixdaycreation.com/facts/creation/general/april2000.html
http://www.trueorigin.org/pepmoth1.asp

HOW TO PRAY AND BENEFIT YOUR LIFE!!!

http://www.gems4friends.com/affirmations.html

I hope you do well with all this. I hope you save these to your favorites. Theyre really very interesting.

Melchior · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 9614 Location: Palm Beach

For the record, Buddhism wasn't created to fill in the gaps of what we don't understand, it was created to with the healing and enlightenment of humanity in mind. That's why I consider it a philosophy, not a religion.

Secondary Oak wrote: I chose to believe in mankind instead of divine intervention.

Which is exactly what Buddhism is about.

The Good Doctor · Joined: 07 Jan 2006 Posts: 342

You might not yet be mature enough for atheism; only 16% of people ever are.

But here goes.

You say, Brendan, that you like the morals and high expectations of Christianity and Judaism. If that's the case, adopt those morals and expectations for yourself. That is independent of what you truly believe. If you like the Buddhist belief in suffering and the avoidance through the middle path. Then follow that. You don't have to have any spirituality to do that.

Stop trying to make a belief when there isn't one there. Instead of saying "I want to believe in something," how about sticking with "I want the truth about the world?" Read about science, the cosmos, animals, humans, psychology. Get the facts.

"God is in all of us" doesn't mean anything. It's just rhetoric. Christianity particularly is full of it. Your religious friends who tell you they know for a fact there's a God say that because their religion requires them to say that. They put up a front of belief. I should know. I was like that when I was young. Then I grew up.

But, if there are gods, we don't know anything about them. They may be our idea of good; it may be our idea of evil. Whatever they are, they've done a good job of hiding from us. Mission accomplished.

So here's what I say: wipe your slate clean. Approach philosophy from scratch. Just look at humanity with no bias: here are these weird intelligent apes who as a hobby like to postulate about their possible creators. There is no majority religion; no matter what beliefs a person has, he must believe that a majority of the world is wrong about religion. So no one should have trouble with the concept of a false religion -- and it's not much of a leap to consider that maybe they're ALL false. Maybe they all started like Scientology: one guy scribbling random crap on a piece of paper.

There's too much life has to offer to worry about all that tribal superstition. Leave that to emotional cripples like Sailor Moon.

Rilzic · Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 385 Location: Alb, NM, USA

Believe in science and the moral beliefs that are common among all religions and take positions on issues as your own experience and education lead you to believe is right.

As i am guessing you are a "mid teen" from the title, your views will change most likely more then you know in the next few years or decades. your main goal right now shouldn't be finding a all encompussing view but to simply to educate your self in as much as you can and you'll find that what you believe in will find you.

Anyway thats what i did and now in my mid 20's am still doing it.

To: the good doctor. I thought atheism was the belief in NO god. i wouldn't suggest that to someone find out who they are. By that i am just saying don't rule anything out.

wheras agnostic is more suitable being:

One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. OR,
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

Personally i give atheism no more crediblity then organized religion.

The Good Doctor · Joined: 07 Jan 2006 Posts: 342

Rilzic wrote: To: the good doctor. I thought atheism was the belief in NO god.

Correct. Due to absence of evidence, I lack belief in God. Therefore, I'm an atheist.

My particular variety of atheism is called "weak atheism." But it is atheism nonetheless.

This is sometimes incorrectly called "agnostic." An agnostic is someone who believes God to be unknowable; that no proof could exist to convince us one way or the other. They are undecided, but FOREVER undecided. Nothing can convince them one way or the other.

The Impeacher · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2928 Location: Everywhere

brendan101 wrote: Though I'm only 16, I've thought about the existence of god quite a lot. I'm not sure what I am. I enjoy the tenents of both judaism and christianity because of the good morals and high standards expected. I like the buddhist idea that life is suffering, and the only way out is through a life of no extremes, and confucian teachings of love and respect for the family (though confucianism is arguably not a religion). However I've come to believe that religion is merely just created by humans to cope with what we don't understand. I'd make a chart, but the number of non-believers has increased with every scientific discovery. As we discover more and more about life, the less and less we need a god. To me, it seems a god made out of ignorance 2000 years ago (christian) or 5500 (jewish) or 1600 (muslim) is a religion i WANT to follow. I want to believe in something, just not believe for the sake of believing. I want to truly believe something. Many of my christian friends say without a doubt they know god exists, my jewish friends say without a doubt god exists within all of us. I want to know what this means.

it means you are a philosopher. stay in school and BE SAVED BY KNOWLEDGE!

The Impeacher · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2928 Location: Everywhere

The Good Doctor wrote: Rilzic wrote: To: the good doctor. I thought atheism was the belief in NO god.

Correct. Due to absence of evidence, I lack belief in God. Therefore, I'm an atheist.

My particular variety of atheism is called "weak atheism." But it is atheism nonetheless.

This is sometimes incorrectly called "agnostic." An agnostic is someone who believes God to be unknowable; that no proof could exist to convince us one way or the other. They are undecided, but FOREVER undecided. Nothing can convince them one way or the other.

no offense, but it you have proof, you would KNOW god exists. waiting for proof to justify a belief is for stupid asshats who dont understand logic 101.

belief is what you do when facts are immaterial to the issue.

by the way, a THEIST means belief in a SUPERNATURAL GOD. do you expect proof of the supernatural?

NO, proof is for the NATURAL WORLD.

i am sorry, but your should either be a deist or a strict atheist. proof and belief are seperate realms, my friend.

if you have proof of god, you dont have reason to BELIEVE, you would KNOW FACTUALLY that he exists.

seriously man, get with it. me, i am a essentially a DEIST. i beieve in something because essentially i do not know what proof i am seeking to KNOW. since i exist, i must have had a cause.

i call the first cause, or prime mover, GOD.

i fail to see how any reasonable, rational man can accept his existance and deny the concept of a natural god or "CREATOR." it is illogical to make any other conclusion, or to wait for evidence to sustain a BELIEF.

FAITH | REASON

separated at birth.

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

You my friend are in the same predicament I was in through most of my teen years. I one and only way to address religion in any rational way is to become Agnostic. Theists and Atheists are all too self righteous. Agnostic means you do not know if there is a god. Just as theists can not prove there is a god, atheists can not prove there is no god. So until you feel the touch of god; don't change your current state. Its funny how people who believe in a jesus are touch by jesus; mary, and uh idunno muslims are touched by allah or mohammad.

Ssushi · Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 7062

brendan101 wrote: However I've come to believe that religion is merely just created by humans to cope with what we don't understand.

Sounds like you already have it figured out Brendan. There's a huge difference between Religion and God. God might exist - no one knows. Religion is mans efforts to explain and document their belief in god. This is generally exploited by man for control and power of the masses.

My advice: take the moral guidelines which Christianity gives and leave everthing alone. Otherwise you're using religion as a crutch to avoid a few simple things in life; you are going to die, so is everyone else. Death isn't a bad thing, it's just a thing and you'll be non the wiser for it.

thefranzkafkafront · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:49 am Post subject:

Apply complete sceptism to all of your belifes, doubt absolutely eveything.

You'll come out the other side with a belife system you'll keep for the rest of your life.

Trust no one, take no ones opinions or views as fact. There is no such thing as fact or truth only differing levels of justification.

Mycroft147 · Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 142 Location: minnesota

Well if your narrowing it down to the oldest religion, check out judaism. If you think Jesus sounds like a good guy look into catholicism. Maybe look at a Catholic Catechism, its pretty interesting. See if you agree with what it says. Just remember to keep thinking about what you believe and what makes sense.

SpellJammer · Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 84

Faith is about trusting in something that athiests claim to trust but wouldn't know where to start..

Themselves..

You need to sitdown and think about your priorities, you believe in God, you know you do, but what else? Ceartainly God is an important part in your life, but does God make you, you? No, you're your own person.. and find that person..

SpellJammer doesn't need proof to know air is present, he doesn't need proof to know he'll wakeup tommorow, he just knows.. Faith is confidence, and if there's one thing our society lacks, it's confidence. It has nothing to do with science, infact, most REAL scientists believe in a God..