Political Crossfire Forums

nrhy · Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 697 Location: Spain

Can any of you point out where in the Quran does it command you to pray 5 times a day, and for women to cover every evidence of skin? or is this nomad tradition?

thank you :)

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Salaam, nrhy. :)

Well, I know for sure that the covering of the whole body for women is nomad tradition, but there are many clerics who argue that a woman should cover her entire body. The covering of the whole body doesn't sound right to me. Women don't have to cover their faces in public, and in fact, no woman is allowed to do so in Mecca... I think. I'm pretty sure Glorfindel or pharaoh can get back to you on this issue.

As for the prayer, it was established that we as Muslims were to pray five times a day after the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) underwent the Israa wal Mi3raaj. This link explains it in detail. God first established that we were to pray 50 times a day! When Muhammad (PBUH) descended down, he passed Moses, who told him to go to God and ask for a lessening of the number of prayers. He went back and forth until it was declared that we were to pray five times a day, but it would be made as if we prayed fifty times.

Such is the Mercy of God... :)

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Saracen wrote: Salaam, nrhy. :)

Well, I know for sure that the covering of the whole body for women is nomad tradition, but there are many clerics who argue that a woman should cover her entire body. The covering of the whole body doesn't sound right to me. Women don't have to cover their faces in public, and in fact, no woman is allowed to do so in Mecca... I think. I'm pretty sure Glorfindel or pharaoh can get back to you on this issue.

As for the prayer, it was established that we as Muslims were to pray five times a day after the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) underwent the Israa wal Mi3raaj. This link explains it in detail. God first established that we were to pray 50 times a day! When Muhammad (PBUH) descended down, he passed Moses, who told him to go to God and ask for a lessening of the number of prayers. He went back and forth until it was declared that we were to pray five times a day, but it would be made as if we prayed fifty times.

Such is the Mercy of God... :)

about the prayer.. i think you go it right saracen

but about the covering of the face or body...well first.. it is not true that woem are not allowed to cover their faces in Mecca

and the covering of the whole body is not some nomad traditions my brother... covering of the whole body with something that does not accentuate the woman's body...

covering the face is matter of discussion between the four branches of sunnah... it is not a nomadic custom my friend

peace

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Glorfindel, it's me: Moath. :hi:

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Saracen wrote: Glorfindel, it's me: Moath. :hi:

lol
I know it is you man...

I noticed that you changed your nickname so I thought you might want to be called by your new nickname, that's all

pharaoh · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:47 am Post subject:

Glorfindel wrote: Saracen wrote: Salaam, nrhy. :)

Well, I know for sure that the covering of the whole body for women is nomad tradition, but there are many clerics who argue that a woman should cover her entire body. The covering of the whole body doesn't sound right to me. Women don't have to cover their faces in public, and in fact, no woman is allowed to do so in Mecca... I think. I'm pretty sure Glorfindel or pharaoh can get back to you on this issue.

As for the prayer, it was established that we as Muslims were to pray five times a day after the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) underwent the Israa wal Mi3raaj. This link explains it in detail. God first established that we were to pray 50 times a day! When Muhammad (PBUH) descended down, he passed Moses, who told him to go to God and ask for a lessening of the number of prayers. He went back and forth until it was declared that we were to pray five times a day, but it would be made as if we prayed fifty times.

Such is the Mercy of God... :)

about the prayer.. i think you go it right saracen

but about the covering of the face or body...well first.. it is not true that woem are not allowed to cover their faces in Mecca

and the covering of the whole body is not some nomad traditions my brother... covering of the whole body with something that does not accentuate the woman's body...

covering the face is matter of discussion between the four branches of sunnah... it is not a nomadic custom my friend

peace

Well I think that the covering of the face is a nomadic custom. You know that muslim women during the time of prophet Muhammed (pbuh) didnt cover their faces. Not even his wives (not 100% sure about that).
I should also note that I am 100% against el neqab.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

pharaoh wrote: Well I think that the covering of the face is a nomadic custom. You know that muslim women during the time of prophet Muhammed (pbuh) didnt cover their faces. Not even his wives (not 100% sure about that).
I should also note that I am 100% against el neqab.

That's right. However, I'm still willing to continue this discussion and find out how women are supposed to cover themselves, in whatever case there is...

jeechoscopy · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject:

In Pakistan women traditionally cover their body by a scarf (dopatta). In this case they cover their torso and head while face isn’t hidden…also in modern societies here.

I think it’s a beautiful coverage!!

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

jeechoscopy wrote: In Pakistan women traditionally cover their body by a scarf (dopatta). In this case they cover their torso and head while face isn’t hidden…also in modern societies here.

I think it’s a beautiful coverage!!

Well, the hijab can look pretty sometimes:

http://www.saudi-american-forum.org/images/IOI/SAF/2004_06_22_IOI.jpg

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Saracen wrote: jeechoscopy wrote: In Pakistan women traditionally cover their body by a scarf (dopatta). In this case they cover their torso and head while face isn’t hidden…also in modern societies here.

I think it’s a beautiful coverage!!

Well, the hijab can look pretty sometimes:

http://www.saudi-american-forum.org/images/IOI/SAF/2004_06_22_IOI.jpg

the idea behind hijab and the Abayah is to not attract men to women

you saying that hijab can look pretty too defies the idea behind Islam telling women to cover their bodies

you understand what I'm saying? you as a man should not be able to make any opinion about how beautiful or pretty a woman might be... as long as this woman is a stranger to you.. you should not see something that attracts you to her... make-up and strands of hair revealed could be an attempt to attract...and that is prohibited

about what Pharoah and you Moath have said eariler in this thread, I will get back to it soon.. i just wanted you to think about your last post

peace

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Glorfindel wrote: the idea behind hijab and the Abayah is to not attract men to women

you saying that hijab can look pretty too defies the idea behind Islam telling women to cover their bodies

I know that. I was just trying to offer a different side of the story. :wink:

Glorfindel wrote: you understand what I'm saying? you as a man should not be able to make any opinion about how beautiful or pretty a woman might be... as long as this woman is a stranger to you.. you should not see something that attracts you to her... make-up and strands of hair revealed could be an attempt to attract...and that is prohibited

about what Pharoah and you Moath have said eariler in this thread, I will get back to it soon.. i just wanted you to think about your last post

I know what a hijab is for, Glorfindel. And I know that makeup is prohibited for veiled women except in the company of her husband and/or family and friends...

Glorfindel wrote: peace

Salam. :)

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Saracen wrote: Glorfindel wrote: the idea behind hijab and the Abayah is to not attract men to women

you saying that hijab can look pretty too defies the idea behind Islam telling women to cover their bodies

I know that. I was just trying to offer a different side of the story. :wink:

Glorfindel wrote: you understand what I'm saying? you as a man should not be able to make any opinion about how beautiful or pretty a woman might be... as long as this woman is a stranger to you.. you should not see something that attracts you to her... make-up and strands of hair revealed could be an attempt to attract...and that is prohibited

about what Pharoah and you Moath have said eariler in this thread, I will get back to it soon.. i just wanted you to think about your last post

I know what a hijab is for, Glorfindel. And I know that makeup is prohibited for veiled women except in the company of her husband and/or family and friends...

Glorfindel wrote: peace

Salam. :)

lol

i just wanted to make sure.. I mean hijab is not supposed to make a woman look pretty and from that link you gave us, it is very that she had some make-up on

I just wanted to know that we are on the same page on that matter... and as i said i will comment on pharoah's and your earlier posts later..because I think the matter of covering the face is impostant and it needs to be discussed thoroughly

Salam

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Glorfindel wrote: i just wanted to make sure.. I mean hijab is not supposed to make a woman look pretty and from that link you gave us, it is very that she had some make-up on

To me, it does sometimes.

Glorfindel wrote: I just wanted to know that we are on the same page on that matter... and as i said i will comment on pharoah's and your earlier posts later..because I think the matter of covering the face is impostant and it needs to be discussed thoroughly

We don't have to be on the same page of everything. My mom AND religion tutor told me that the covering of the face is not an extremely important matter. I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

As salaamu alaikum, brother.

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1642

since glorfindel is from ksa..it is normal of him to think that covering the face is a must

but i am sure that covering the face is not a must in islam!

only in one exception, if a girl is extremely pretty or she gets alot annoying guys on her back then she has to cover her face

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Muslima wrote: since glorfindel is from ksa..it is normal of him to think that covering the face is a must

but i am sure that covering the face is not a must in islam!

only in one exception, if a girl is extremely pretty or she gets alot annoying guys on her back then she has to cover her face

Guess it's me, pharaoh and you versus Glorfindel. Let's bring up the facts.

Quote: 1) In the Arabic of the Prophet (sAas), the word "khimar" referred to a HEADCOVERING. This can be seen in the hadiths in which the Prophet (sAas) wiped his wet hands over his khimar and his socks, from which the scholars have derived that it is halal to wipe wet hands over the HEADCOVERING and the socks.

2) The authorities on classical Arabic have defined the word "khimar" as a HEADCOVERING. For instance the dictionary Aqrab al-Mawarid defines the word "khimar" as, "All such pieces of cloth which are used to cover the head. It is a piece of cloth which is used by a woman to cover her head". The great scholar Imam Abu'l-Fida ibn Kathir defines the word "khimar" in the following words, "Khumur is the plural of khimar which means something that covers, and is what is used to cover the head. This is what is known among the people as a khimar". A modern scholar, Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid says, "Khimar comes from the word khamr, the root meaning of which is to cover. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Khammiru aaniyatakum (cover your vessels).' Everything that covers something else is called its khimar. But in common usage khimar has come to be used as a name for the garment with which a woman covers her head; in some cases this does not go against the linguistic meaning of khimar. Some of the fuqaha have defined it as that which covers the head, the temples and the neck. The difference between the hijab and the khimar is that the hijab is something which covers all of a woman’s body, whilst the khimar in general is something with which a woman covers her head".

3) Imam Abu Abdullah Qurtubi describes the historical circumstances relating to the wearing of the khimar in pre-Islamic Arabia as follows, "Women in those days used to cover their heads with the khimar, throwing its ends upon their backs. This left the neck and the upper part of the chest bare, along with the ears, in the manner of the Christians. Then Allah commanded them to cover those parts with the khimar". Similarly, Imam Abu'l-Fida ibn Kathir reports, "'Draw their khumur to cover their bosoms' means that they should wear the khimar in such a way that they cover their chests so that they will be different from the women of the jahiliyyah who did not do that but would pass in front of men with their chests uncovered and with their necks, forelocks, hair and earrings uncovered". Both of these descriptions provide clear, explicit, specific explanations of what "extend their khimars to cover their bosoms" means.

4) The scholars have agreed unanimously that the khimar is a HEADCOVERING.

http://www.muhajabah.com/sunna-yes.htm#hijab

I don't think that there is a single mention in the Koran that admonishes women to cover their faces.

pharaoh · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:24 am Post subject:

Quote: only in one exception, if a girl is extremely pretty or she gets alot annoying guys on her back then she has to cover her face

Even that is only the opinion of some scholars, the prophet never ordered such a thing. So what they said could be wrong and could be good. I just cant understand how a women accepts willingly to cover herself up from head to toe, thats just beyond my understanding. Why always blame the women? Why its always the duty of the women alone to protect herself from the eyes of men? Shouldnt men also be responsible?? I mean I dont have the slightest respect for a guy who "check out" a veiled women. This kinda guy get no respect from me. I mean she did her part, she want to be chast and here are you still looking at her and checking her out. There is nothing wrong ofcourse in admiring the beauty of a veiled women "laka el nazra el oula we aleik el thania" but then you have to be responsible and then look away. Ofcourse if you really like her you should then do the right thing and begin the process of talking to her family.

Quote: Guess it's me, pharaoh and you versus Glorfindel.

Hummmm then its war eh? Well then...let me just get my sword and my shield and lets just rock da house :lol:

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

pharaoh wrote: Hummmm then its war eh? Well then...let me just get my sword and my shield and lets just rock da house

Shhh! pharaoh! Islam is a peaceful religion, remember? :-o :-D

pharaoh · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:32 am Post subject:

Saracen wrote: pharaoh wrote: Hummmm then its war eh? Well then...let me just get my sword and my shield and lets just rock da house

Shhh! pharaoh! Islam is a peaceful religion, remember? :-o :-D

Oups my bad bro. I just got a little excited :-|

wormwood · Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 2670 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: Shhh! pharaoh! Islam is a peaceful religion, remember?
Ha Ha your secret is out now Moath, I'm telling John :lol: .

This concept of a woman having to cover herself is hard for me to understand. Is there regulation on the men being covered?

Glorfindel, why do you seem so much more eager to have women covered?

In my opinion, women are the most beautiful creatures in all of creation, to keep them covered seems like such a waste. If a woman WANTS to cover herself to avoid unwanted attention, that is one thing, but to force all women to do so, seems unfair and completely biased.

pharaoh · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:40 am Post subject:

Quote: This concept of a woman having to cover herself is hard for me to understand. Is there regulation on the men being covered?

Yes there is. Men should cover from their knees to their chest (til the neck). In other words they can show or expose their arms and their legs (until the knee).

Quote: In my opinion, women are the most beautiful creatures in all of creation

We can all agree on that otherwise we would be gay...and I dont think we are..so....

Quote: to keep them covered seems like such a waste.

Such a waste? What do you want them to do? Show off like Pamela anderson?? Participate in Miss world contests?? What is considerate as appropriate to you and what is the good thing in that? (for the community)

Quote: If a woman WANTS to cover herself to avoid unwanted attention, that is one thing, but to force all women to do so, seems unfair and completely biased.

Women shouldnt be forced to put the veil. That should be their choice. Ofcourse otherwise would be completely wrong and let me tell you that there is not 1 single verse in Koran that orders men to force women to put the veil.