Political Crossfire Forums

THEXRATED · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2866 Location: Tuonelan Virrat

Quote: A benevolent monarchy will always be more effective for the governed and efficient than a bureaucracy driven government.

When the size of benevolent monarchy (dictatorship) increases, so do the problems.

I personally liked Foundation series by Asimov. Not sure how many here have read it, but I suggest you do.

It does give interesting perspective on a society that places ultimate values on freedoms of individuals and on the other side a society that works in a sync with group consciousness. I do not make those arguments here because Asimov does them much more eloquently than I can.

The basic concept however is that as a group even an individual stands to gain more.

Stone Phillips · Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 10

Anyone read The Dispossessed, by Ursula Leguin? Far from perfect but pretty good idea all-around.

imperatorxi · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 28

A Imperial federation would solve problems concerning huge states with burdensome machinery.

CaptainDankNuggets · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 137 Location: Highland, Usa

Society will never be perfect !!!!

Baldur · Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 67 Location: United States

I agree with those whom have stated that there will never be a perfect society. The closest would be a global government so that the art of war will no longer be practiced within our race

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject:

Baldur wrote: I agree with those whom have stated that there will never be a perfect society. The closest would be a global government so that the art of war will no longer be practiced within our race

As if the removal of conflict and struggle is a benefit to mankind.

I do not share the cynical view that 'perfect' society is impossible. I believe in a libertarian society as being perfect. Merely because there are conflicts does not mean that a society is imperfect. As long as a certain structure remains, I believe the system as a whole is perfect.

mr U

xsuite · Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 688 Location: The Colonies (USA)

a perfect society is absoluteley possible but is extremeley hard to start. Has anyone ever read the book "the giver" by lois lowry. in that book a utopia is the setting. its really hard to explain so i suggest reading int spark notes>herehttp://www.sparknotes.com/lit/giver/summary.html.

KG · Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 152

CaptainDankNuggets wrote: Society will never be perfect !!!!
Go with me for a second.
How do we know? Humans have always understood that perfection is out of our grasps. But who proved this? It was never proven, yet billions of people in the world today view themselves as insignificant imperfect organisms that will never make a difference.

Thanks to this movement society has dawned the attitude that since no one can be perfect, Why try? It is sadining to hear in schools and offices today the lazy banter of common folk as they rot in their own bodies, while they simply shrug it off saying "nobody's perfect."

But if one person would stand up and instead of popular opinion say that they are going to make themselves perfect. To strive for an ideal so outlandish and astonishing, that it can and will never be reached. However, it will benifit the host ten fold over any other philosophy that will make them try and feel better. This would encorage ever continuous advancemt and would destroy the fog that has settled on the hearts and immagination of the world.

In short, just because we can't become perfect doesn't mean we can't commit to being it.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6505

the perfect society would be something akin to the Matrix

we would plug everyone's brain into a computer and we would create the perfect world for each individual, whatever that might be.

Think of what the perfect world would be for you.....

usuchamp · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 272

ieatfood wrote: the perfect society would be something akin to the Matrix

we would plug everyone's brain into a computer and we would create the perfect world for each individual, whatever that might be.

Think of what the perfect world would be for you.....

My perfect world wouldn't include having my brain plugged into a computer.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6505

usuchamp wrote: ieatfood wrote: the perfect society would be something akin to the Matrix

we would plug everyone's brain into a computer and we would create the perfect world for each individual, whatever that might be.

Think of what the perfect world would be for you.....

My perfect world wouldn't include having my brain plugged into a computer.

well, people wouldn't know that they were plugged in
they would just be living perfect lives.

Shemmykins · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject:

So long as people can think and feel for themselves, there will never be such a perfect society. The world would be a better place if we had no censorship, because it is what drives humans to form a "perfect society" that makes it such a flawed society.

Addison · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 126

Not necessarily a viewpoint I am putting forth for discussion, just a tiny comment about etymology.

Utopia is the word used to describe a "perfect society." An interesting fact is that all of you who claim a utopia to be an achievable destination in the course of man-kind are unknowingly contributed to the fact that it will ever happen. Why?

Simple. The etymological word Utopia was coined by Thomas Moore. It combines two greek words. The first is "ou", a prefix meaning "not" or "no." The second is "topia", from "topos" meaning "place." The original word was Eutopia, "Eu" meaning "good." The derivation "Utopia" excludes the "e" to preserve the subversive meaning that a "perfect place" is not possible, literally meaning "no place."

Just for your information.

Doowstados · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 281

Perfect is an opinion. Not everyones perfect is the same.

Doowstados · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 281

Good use of history Addison.

Fido · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 3936

KG wrote: CaptainDankNuggets wrote: Society will never be perfect !!!!
Go with me for a second.
How do we know? Humans have always understood that perfection is out of our grasps. But who proved this? It was never proven, yet billions of people in the world today view themselves as insignificant imperfect organisms that will never make a difference.

Thanks to this movement society has dawned the attitude that since no one can be perfect, Why try? It is sadining to hear in schools and offices today the lazy banter of common folk as they rot in their own bodies, while they simply shrug it off saying "nobody's perfect."

But if one person would stand up and instead of popular opinion say that they are going to make themselves perfect. To strive for an ideal so outlandish and astonishing, that it can and will never be reached. However, it will benifit the host ten fold over any other philosophy that will make them try and feel better. This would encorage ever continuous advancemt and would destroy the fog that has settled on the hearts and immagination of the world.

In short, just because we can't become perfect doesn't mean we can't commit to being it.

The Muslims say that only Allah is perfect, and I agree. Every society is perfect that offers enough of hope, and peace and order. The U.S constitution provides for a perfect society; one that is both durable and changeable. Yet society has out-changed the constitution many times, and the constitution has become impossible to change meaningfully because our interests and needs are so different. The fact that the government set out for perfection and formed a long lasing society only means that its imperfections now glare with age and intransigence. Governments ought to have time limit. If we had to vote to continue the country in its present form or vote to reform it in another fashion; how would those votes fall.
Good enough is good enough for people and countries, and perfection is as big a bear to individuals as it is to nations. Considering the ways countries without hope are destroyed, by war, and by revolution, every moment of peace and good will is a treasure. If the country lives, it may change its government, and so it is perfect; but if the country is dead and all ossified then its government, even if perfect, will not change them, or be changed by them.

Fido · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 3936

Baldur wrote: I agree with those whom have stated that there will never be a perfect society. The closest would be a global government so that the art of war will no longer be practiced within our race

May I disagree. The only thing bad about war is the organization. It is no longer man to man, or people to people. The person has gone out of it, and it is all numbers and machines. People were better when they had their courage checked and when honor had to mean something to everyone. Now a whole lot of chicken ***** can stand behind a geek with a joy stick running a smart bomb all around the world, and the only kind being born is chickens and geeks. Where are our Galahads or Crazy Horses? Where is the parent who will lay it on the line for their children? The very laws that turns us into individuals turns us into nobodies.

Fido · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 3936

TreizeEnder wrote: The perfect society: The ant hill. Discuss further.

The ant hill is analogous to an individual, and not to a society.

Herodotus · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1

I've read 3 pages of this 'pefect society' thread, and no where has anyone defined 'perfect'....which seems kind of essential when you ask a question like that.

There is much equivocation in this thread. People do not consider things to be more or less 'perfect' than the next person might. While many terms are relative, perfection is not; at least not in the context of a perfect society.

Perfection is not an opinion.

Doowstados · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 281

Perfect for me is a place where perfect does not exist, meaning your wrong. Because, obviously perfect for you, would be if perfect were possible.