Political Crossfire Forums

usuchamp · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 272

Regarding the ant hill, the society is quickly set back by a hose or by gas and a match.

hemlock · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 23

if we keep improving there must be a point at which there is nothing left to improve or we don't have the capability to improve it.

Rozzlapeed · Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 435 Location: Scottsdale, AZ

hemlock wrote: if we keep improving there must be a point at which there is nothing left to improve or we don't have the capability to improve it.

On the contrary. Humanity has been very good at creating entirely new things which give us more avenues for improvement. We will never run out of ways to improve, because just as we think we are getting close to that point, someone comes up with a technology that allows us to do something we never had the opportunity to imagine, let alone improve.

hemlock · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 23

but there must be an end at which our brain is no longer capable of creating something new or we will create something that cannot be improved. For example the color white. How would you improve the color white.

maskedJR · Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Posts: 2033 Location: kansas

TreizeEnder wrote:
You are correct in that their is no perfect society. Ants do have a very efficient and effective system of hierarchy and specialization, though. Also, they fill their needs willingly because they're recognize that self sacrifice is more rewarding than depriving resources from others solely for themselves. It is a system I feel humans still have trouble grasping. It is a very good example of society, though there is no such thing as perfection.

Ants do what they do out of instinct, not because of rational thinking. Man is the only being on this earth which has the ability to rationalize and to act upon free will, choosing good or evil.

The Good Doctor · Joined: 07 Jan 2006 Posts: 342

brendan101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 16 Location: houston

perfect society= a gigantic dome with a monumental fountain that spews chocolate. you may all bow down to me now

Kt · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3806

Perfect Society = absolute personal freedoms, living in a anti-christian theocracy and communist country, can you say orgies?

Rozzlapeed · Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 435 Location: Scottsdale, AZ

hemlock wrote: but there must be an end at which our brain is no longer capable of creating something new or we will create something that cannot be improved. For example the color white. How would you improve the color white.

I'm not saying that there are no things that cannot be improved, what I am saying is that once we improve something to our satisfaction, we go out and find/make/invent something else to improve.

To use your example, the color white itself is basically a static concept, I agree. But over the last century, how many other colors have been defined by Pantone alone? And then we keep coming up with new ways to display colors, first inventing CRT's, then LCD's, lasers, LED's , Plasma, OLED's, etc. In addition, we can define the color white in at least three different ways, such as RGB and CMYK. We can transmit it instantaneously over radio waves and electric cables all over the world, and we can expect to be exactly the same color when it comes out the other end.

I'd say we've found a lot of ways to improve it.

Robingoblin · Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 6

I think wisdom is not so much in having all the answers, but in knowing which questions to ask first.
I submit: How can we master the Utopian dream when the vast majority of us cannot even master our individual selves?
Or how about this one: Do we really want to achieve harmony? Doesn't absolute harmony require a complete absence of diversity, like the ant hill? Any absolute, any extreme is psychologically unhealthy at best. Heed the words of the Aristotelian Mean: Everything in moderation. Nothing in excess. The polar latitudes of any subject are places that can accommodate only a modest few.
The real problem is practically primeval: People don't know what they really want. When they do get their wishes, they're usually very unhappy with them.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: The perfect society: The ant hill. Discuss further.

In other words: the aliens from Starship Troopers? No thankyou. I prefer to choose those who I do and do not associate with. You can go off and look for a brain bug to make your decisions for you if you want just let me make my own decisions.

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: In other words: the aliens from Starship Troopers? No thankyou. I prefer to choose those who I do and do not associate with. You can go off and look for a brain bug to make your decisions for you if you want just let me make my own decisions.

Verily. Besides, historically this perfect society, whether in Plato's or Marx' guise, has always required absolute support. They require censorship of deviant opinions and writings, and with it, stagnation of human development.

It is the pluriform nature of human society that makes it interesting, not its similarity to some 'divine' concept..

Mr U

nrhy · Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 697 Location: Spain

A perfect society is non existent, because no matter how much we try stay in line (refering to your ant hill theory) there will always be an exception, a rebel to society, a revolutionary, unaware that the current method is the best available, will still propose a "better perfected society"... so thus, I believe the closest thing to a perfect society is the one displayed in "A Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley...

usuchamp · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 272

nrhy wrote: A perfect society is non existent, because no matter how much we try stay in line (refering to your ant hill theory) there will always be an exception, a rebel to society, a revolutionary, unaware that the current method is the best available, will still propose a "better perfected society"... so thus, I believe the closest thing to a perfect society is the one displayed in "A Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley...

What does this "perfect society" say about homosexuality as described by Huxley? Or, is that wherein lies the "closest" aspect?

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: so thus, I believe the closest thing to a perfect society is the one displayed in "A Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley...

Do you mean the dystopian one of strictly and genetically enforced class barriers? I sincerely hope not.

usuchamp · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 272

There is an example in LDS doctrine of a society that might be deemed "perfect." According to the doctrine, the city of Enoch was so righteous that it was taken up into heaven. Moses 7:18, "And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them." You don't have to be LDS to extrapolate from the message, but it does make a few points about unity.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: "And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them.

Yes but it doesn't say what they were of one heart and mind in? I mean if the one heart and one mind were of liberty, non-aggression, a sense of self, and love of your neighbour then it's a good point.

Anyis · Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 64

It is hypothetically possible to have a "perfect society", where every being gets along wonderful and is always happy,however, we all know that there can never be a perfect society because perfection is an opinion statement that addresses the wants of a man/woman. And since every person is capable of independently thinking for themselves - no two people on this planet will agree on everything, and there will never be a perfect society.

imperatorxi · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 28

TreizeEnder wrote: NobleOne wrote: Someone's a Monarchist!
A benevolent monarchy will always be more effective for the governed and efficient than a bureaucracy driven government.

I know this is like from a while ago but... very good! Nice to know not everyone is blinded by social desirability and our preoccupation with democracy, though in practice it is the best.

Only one problem exists with truly benevolent monarchs. They die and monarchies do not take the death of great leaders well. Great Empires fall in the wake of Great Men.

nrhy · Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 697 Location: Spain

usuchamp wrote: nrhy wrote: A perfect society is non existent, because no matter how much we try stay in line (refering to your ant hill theory) there will always be an exception, a rebel to society, a revolutionary, unaware that the current method is the best available, will still propose a "better perfected society"... so thus, I believe the closest thing to a perfect society is the one displayed in "A Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley...

What does this "perfect society" say about homosexuality as described by Huxley? Or, is that wherein lies the "closest" aspect? \

Homosexuality is not an option...The book is set up on classes, you have to read it in order to understand by what I am trying to say... :-|