Political Crossfire Forums

jeechoscopy · Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: That's cool. I'm planning on doing some travelling in a few years to a few countries. Two being Islamic. UAE and another. Do you think a American athiest Marxist would be warmly accepted there for the time I am there? I'm sure I would since I am quite respectful to others' religious beliefs. But Muslim culture inguiges and interests me.

(1)Just smile and people will be warm. No cultures match the Arabic ones for a tradition of hospitality.

Quote: That's cool. What about if you had a citizenship say in America and you were drafted to fight against Iran. Would you choose to fight or be a objector to the war and refuse to fight?

(2) If one can't a fight a war without a draft it seems that the war is probably not worth fighting.
Quote:
Second question (and this is the controversial one) is that I heard that there was a story where Mohammed was preaching to the people and a old lady stood up and questioned and opposed some of his teachings, then Mohammed had her ends (arms and legs) tied to a horse carriage and then stretched until she died of back strain. In the story she died for opposition and questioning Mohammed's teachings. Is this true or have you heard any similar stories? I'd just like to know if this is another lie that the Christian church has told me when I was young or if there is an element of truth.

(3) We are talking about 1500 years ago, a time without a printing press, and without much literacy. It is as impossible to be sure of small incidents as it is to be sure of minor points of theology.

(1) Give me a chance to smile in return :)

(2) Wars always have some excuses…

(3) Yes, it would be possible if they were not so careful.

All the teaching of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) reached us is by a particular method.

Just See Here

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Darth Tiberius wrote:

There is one more question I have that I forogt to mention. This question is quite controversial so I must say I mean no offense. I heard stories mainly from the days when I was religious under Christianity a long time ago about Mohammed. Is it true that Mohammed was a leader of the area that he lived in? Second question (and this is the controversial one) is that I heard that there was a story where Mohammed was preaching to the people and a old lady stood up and questioned and opposed some of his teachings, then Mohammed had her ends (arms and legs) tied to a horse carriage and then stretched until she died of back strain. In the story she died for opposition and questioning Mohammed's teachings. Is this true or have you heard any similar stories? I'd just like to know if this is another lie that the Christian church has told me when I was young or if there is an element of truth.

that's not true ...that's a huge lie

the prophet asked God to forgive and guide a tribe after they expelled him out of their town and threw rocks at him and one of the rocks hit him on his head... he would not kill and old woman for opposing his teachings

and in many cases his companions questioned him and went to the extreme in their search for knowledge and in other cases they refused to obey his orders and he never punished any of them like that

he did not punish one of his companions when that companion was caught in a mission to give Quraish news and information about the prophet's army and he sent these information in a piece of paper with a slave girl and told her to hide the message in her hair and she did... and the prophet knew of mission from God and he sent two of his companions to arrest that slave and take that message from her and they did and the prophet questioned that companion of why he did such a thing..and that companion said that he did not cease to believe in the prophet and God or wanted to cause the muslim army to lose..but that he was not from Mecca but he had family and relatives who had nobody to defend them in Mecca and was afraid that they would get killed or hurt so he thought that his message would make the people of mecca defend his relatives as their own..and Omar asked the prophet to give him permission to cut off this companion's head but the prophet said no and he told Omar that this companion was with him in Badr and stood with him when the muslim army was weak and little and that what he did for Islam in Badr was unforgettable and appreciated by God that God gave those who fought in Badr to do whatever they wanted since God has forgiven them...

so if this companion who could have cost the muslims the element of surprise in their fight was forgiven .. the prophet would not kill a woman because she oppsed him...

he did not kill the woman who opened the belly of his beloved uncle and took his nose and ears as trophies of war when he was killed in the field of Uhud..he forgave her and said to her when she came to him after she converted to Islam to ask him if she can be forgiven for what she did to the prophet's uncle..he said to her that God would not let a part of his uncle go to hell ( because after she opened the belly of the prophet's uncle to cut off the liver and chewed on it and ate parts of it) in addition to that when you convert to Islam, all your sins that you commited before your conversion are forgiven.

the prophet did not kill a woman who did this to his uncle and caused the prophet to lose his beloved uncle who helped him and defended him when he was in Mecca...why would he kill an old woman for simply disagreeing with him?

Darth Tiberius · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 2001 Location: Oxford

Saracen wrote: Well, as long as you can remain reserved and friendly and open, of course you will be able to mix in.

Friendly and open is no problem. But for reserved, what kind of reserved do you mean? Where I am reserved means to themselves and quiet. Myself I'm quite outgoing and I like talking to people and then in the evenings or when I am out for fun I am very active (for example going to a club and doing my dance routine to many people on this stage). That and if I get in a political discussion I'll be perfectly friendly and respectful, but I do stand my ground and I speak bluntly when it comes to politics.

Quote: Believe me, Darth: I don't care about your religion or political beliefs. I care that you are a person, no more, no less.

Best philosophy to have. :)

Quote: Well, Muhammad (PBUH) wasn't exactly a political leader, but he was a leader nonetheless and an Apostle of God. The second story you mentioned is just another tall tale. I've seen many of them. The more tall tales I see, the more I'm convinced that the anti-Islamic arguments are invalid (you're not anti-Islamic, and I can see that ). Almost none of these stories have an element of truth. Many of them in fact, like the so-called invasion of Fez, never happened: the Prophet (PBUH) stayed within the Arabian penninsula.

Great. That clears that up. It seems that when I was Christian and went to church in my youth, the church and churches I have gone to have all told me tall tales. I found the Lutheran churches to be one of the worst for bigotry in my experience.

Thanks for the site. I'm doing my coursework now (or I should be doing soon) but when that's finished I'll have a look at that site. It seems interesting so far. Thanks Saracen!

Where in the Middle East or Arab nations do you think is the best to travel to?

Darth Tiberius · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 2001 Location: Oxford

For all those that I haven't replied to, thank you for your reply. It clears up a lot of questions. :-D

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

DT wrote: Friendly and open is no problem. But for reserved, what kind of reserved do you mean? Where I am reserved means to themselves and quiet. Myself I'm quite outgoing and I like talking to people and then in the evenings or when I am out for fun I am very active (for example going to a club and doing my dance routine to many people on this stage). That and if I get in a political discussion I'll be perfectly friendly and respectful, but I do stand my ground and I speak bluntly when it comes to politics.

Well, reserved as in refrain from sexual harrassment of any sort, even minor forms, and so forth. Keeping quiet all the time isn't necessary, but talkativeness should also be thrown out the window (no offense). If you were to go to Dubai, act as if you're in a Western country: that's pretty much what Dubai is.

DT wrote: Best philosophy to have.

It is. :)

DT wrote: Great. That clears that up. It seems that when I was Christian and went to church in my youth, the church and churches I have gone to have all told me tall tales. I found the Lutheran churches to be one of the worst for bigotry in my experience.

Thanks for the site. I'm doing my coursework now (or I should be doing soon) but when that's finished I'll have a look at that site. It seems interesting so far. Thanks Saracen!

Where in the Middle East or Arab nations do you think is the best to travel to?

No need to thank me. :)

If you want to go to the MidEast, I suggest trying out Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, first. You'll find Jordan and Lebanon interesting places as well, along with the UAE.

Darth Tiberius · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 2001 Location: Oxford

Saracen wrote: Well, reserved as in refrain from sexual harrassment of any sort, even minor forms, and so forth. Keeping quiet all the time isn't necessary, but talkativeness should also be thrown out the window (no offense). If you were to go to Dubai, act as if you're in a Western country: that's pretty much what Dubai is.

I guess I could refrain from flirting for a couple weeks. :) What happens if I'm too talkative? Would I end up offending someone?

Quote: If you want to go to the MidEast, I suggest trying out Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, first. You'll find Jordan and Lebanon interesting places as well, along with the UAE.

Cool. Thanks.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Darth Tiberius wrote: Saracen wrote: Well, reserved as in refrain from sexual harrassment of any sort, even minor forms, and so forth. Keeping quiet all the time isn't necessary, but talkativeness should also be thrown out the window (no offense). If you were to go to Dubai, act as if you're in a Western country: that's pretty much what Dubai is.

I guess I could refrain from flirting for a couple weeks. :) What happens if I'm too talkative? Would I end up offending someone?

Quote: If you want to go to the MidEast, I suggest trying out Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, first. You'll find Jordan and Lebanon interesting places as well, along with the UAE.

Cool. Thanks.

If you're too talkative, people might think you're a bit too... how should I say it... excited. You know how people usually get bored around talkativeness, not that I'm saying you are. You'll find the time of your life here, it's sure. :-D

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5632 Location: Fulton, Ks

Now that this threads gotten way off topic

:singing: Why can't we be friends
Why can't weeeeeeeeeeeeee be friends :/singing:

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

The Underground wrote: Now that this threads gotten way off topic

:singing: Why can't we be friends
Why can't weeeeeeeeeeeeee be friends :/singing:

:lol: Lollerz...

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

duplicate post

DawoodN · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 128 Location: Boston, MA

Showboat wrote: Zeeman wrote: Quote: Can Allah have a son?

Nope..

Surely he could if he wanted one. He's God, he can do anything.

God is a metaphysical being. To have a physical representation would be illogical. Semantically, having a "son" would require a "partner of similar type." Since there is no such partner, reproduction is impossible. That said, could God do it? I'm not sure... I dont have that level of knowledge. He's obviously chosen not to.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Semantically, having a "son" would require a "partner of similar type."

I suppose you never did high school biology? Asexual reproduction ring a bell?

Quote: That said, could God do it? I'm not sure... I dont have that level of knowledge. He's obviously chosen not to.

If there was a god, then it'd be a bit rude to suggest that he couldn't do something that an amoeba can do. Of course that'd mean I should stop calling him a he as that'd make him an 'it', like Rupaul. :lol: I suppose that's just as disrespectful...sorry.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Reason wrote: Quote: Semantically, having a "son" would require a "partner of similar type."

I suppose you never did high school biology? Asexual reproduction ring a bell?

Quote: That said, could God do it? I'm not sure... I dont have that level of knowledge. He's obviously chosen not to.

If there was a god, then it'd be a bit rude to suggest that he couldn't do something that an amoeba can do. Of course that'd mean I should stop calling him a he as that'd make him an 'it', like Rupaul. :lol: I suppose that's just as disrespectful...sorry.

Well, that depends on your beliefs, Reason. If you don't worship God, then fine.
The last time I checked, Athiesm and tolerance are not mutually exclusive. :wink:

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Well, that depends on your beliefs, Reason. If you don't worship God, then fine.
The last time I checked, Athiesm and tolerance are not mutually exclusive.

Sure, I was rejecting the arguments put forward by someone who doesn't seem to believe in god anyway. I was simply saying that some lfieforms have chidlren without having a sexual partner. They reproduce by themselves.

jeechoscopy · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject:

Can Allah have a son?

It's a question like, "Can God create a stone that he could not pic it himself?"

Another question, "Can God have a sex"?

And, "Can God sneeze?"

God can do anything; he isn't to do insanity...

God isn't a part of physics or biology they are his creation...

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Another question, "Can God have a sex"?

Zeus can...he even did it with a cow (and had a child).

Quote: God isn't a part of physics or biology they are his creation...

This is the most rational belief in god, only faith can show us god's existence but that we must try to be rational in everything except that which can only be found through faith.

jeechoscopy · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: Another question, "Can God have a sex"?

Zeus can...he even did it with a cow (and had a child).

Quote: God isn't a part of physics or biology they are his creation...

This is the most rational belief in god, only faith can show us god's existence but that we must try to be rational in everything except that which can only be found through faith.

Exactly...

Like a conspiracy theory… Believes and religions have also been administered as political applications. Not only in ancient times but still today. Not only in the part of a world but everywhere there even the state has not a particular religion. The myths and prophecies are equally applied in politics as well as religions. It depends on who the religious or the political one is there and how adept he is in the mastership. But unlike faiths, in politics you are freer to choose ethical or unethical administration… But still depend who is ahead…

It’s undoubtedly accepted that religions have done a big job to maintain a society’s morale. And you know religion is a sum of ethics and morality. When we come to differentiate religions from politics we have to go beyond any touch, sight, taste or any tested senses… That’s why religion is a faithful “understanding”… I believe in my religion –Islam, according to my limited understandings.

By the way who is Mr. Zeus? I think he is one of the characters of the ancient Greek mythology, isn’t he?

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: By the way who is Mr. Zeus? I think he is one of the characters of the ancient Greek mythology, isn’t he?

Yes, who does lots of odd stuff in the stories.

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5632 Location: Fulton, Ks

Well, according to most religions we are all gods "children" although it would be more like ggggggrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttt multiplied times one billion grandchildren. Can god have childeren in the traditional sense? i'd imagine he could (assuming of course there is a god) but why would he want too?

jeechoscopy · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:50 am Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: By the way who is Mr. Zeus? I think he is one of the characters of the ancient Greek mythology, isn’t he?

Yes, who does lots of odd stuff in the stories.

Once I looked in an encyclopedia perhaps one of the Olympians...

The Underground wrote: Well, according to most religions we are all gods "children" although it would be more like ggggggrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttt multiplied times one billion grandchildren. Can god have childeren in the traditional sense? i'd imagine he could (assuming of course there is a god) but why would he want too?

…As we see Adam? A father of the whole human beings…
God has created Adam so why he need to make other competitions?
Aren’t we enough contesting each other? We have already been ruling over his other creations. What I could understand is that it’s simply a misinterpreting of the first Man –Adam.

It's not God's fault. :roll: