Political Crossfire Forums

googs8813 · Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 46

I just wanted to know more about the death penalty regarding Islam and how they approach it? I am for the death penalty but I think the U.S system has too much flaws that I really turn against it.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

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Hope that helps. :)

googs8813 · Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 46

oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Glorfindel wrote: googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Yeah, I know what you mean. I used to have a chauffeur who used to see executions almost every Friday in the courtyard of the Imam Turki mosque in the al-Bat'haa district. They cover the head of the criminal, recite a speech, hang him on a pole of some sort, tranquilize the poor bastard, and -SWISH! - his head is flying in the air.

Darth Tiberius · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 2001 Location: Oxford

Glorfindel wrote: googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Don't you think that public executions are really just bloodlust though? In my understanding the Koran prohibits people to feel glad for others death and for revenge. So I'm not quite sure how public executions or executions in general can be justified.

I believe that execution is wrong anyway since executions can be given to the wrong person or an innocent person and then there is no going back. That and it is still killing.

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Darth Tiberius wrote: Glorfindel wrote: googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Don't you think that public executions are really just bloodlust though? In my understanding the Koran prohibits people to feel glad for others death and for revenge. So I'm not quite sure how public executions or executions in general can be justified.

I believe that execution is wrong anyway since executions can be given to the wrong person or an innocent person and then there is no going back. That and it is still killing.

public executions are not held in the Colosseum..it is not like a gladiators fight...so it is not for fun ...

the goal behind public executions is deterrance...and you can't show people that anyone who commits murder is gonna face this situation without showing them...

it is the punishment for those who take life from others...would you not think twice about committing murder if you happen to see the fate of a murderer with your naked eyes?

executions in Saudi arabia are not practiced unless there have been an undeniable proof of the murder or if the murderer confessed ...

and you think there is a going back when you throw a man in prison for oh like 13 years in a dirty tiny cell when it is proven that he is innocent? how would you compensate him for those lost 13 years?

the flaws and errors of the US penal system does not mean that executions is the wrong type of punishment

Darth Tiberius · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 2001 Location: Oxford

Glorfindel wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Glorfindel wrote: googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Don't you think that public executions are really just bloodlust though? In my understanding the Koran prohibits people to feel glad for others death and for revenge. So I'm not quite sure how public executions or executions in general can be justified.

I believe that execution is wrong anyway since executions can be given to the wrong person or an innocent person and then there is no going back. That and it is still killing.

public executions are not held in the Colosseum..it is not like a gladiators fight...so it is not for fun ...

the goal behind public executions is deterrance...and you can't show people that anyone who commits murder is gonna face this situation without showing them...

it is the punishment for those who take life from others...would you not think twice about committing murder if you happen to see the fate of a murderer with your naked eyes?

executions in Saudi arabia are not practiced unless there have been an undeniable proof of the murder or if the murderer confessed ...

and you think there is a going back when you throw a man in prison for oh like 13 years in a dirty tiny cell when it is proven that he is innocent? how would you compensate him for those lost 13 years?

the flaws and errors of the US penal system does not mean that executions is the wrong type of punishment

But from public executions thre is no assurance that the people watching will not be watching for thier own personnal amusement. Also, executions based on facts could also be potentially planted or the prisonner could be forced into making a confession. all these variables make me believe that the death penalty is never OK.

Deterrance hasn't been shown in America or in many countries that have death penalties. The goal is prevention and then punnishment.

If the jails are that bad, I'd focus on improving the jails. Compensation for those falsely accused.

Zeeman · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:29 am Post subject:

Its not a deterrence in the US because the laws arent the same in every state..So you might get the death penalty in Texas but not in other states.

The other thing that in Islam the accused has to be determiened guilty 100% for execution with no doubt what so ever.The family which suffered the loss can also always forgive the killer...

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

Darth Tiberius wrote: Glorfindel wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Glorfindel wrote: googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Don't you think that public executions are really just bloodlust though? In my understanding the Koran prohibits people to feel glad for others death and for revenge. So I'm not quite sure how public executions or executions in general can be justified.

I believe that execution is wrong anyway since executions can be given to the wrong person or an innocent person and then there is no going back. That and it is still killing.

public executions are not held in the Colosseum..it is not like a gladiators fight...so it is not for fun ...

the goal behind public executions is deterrance...and you can't show people that anyone who commits murder is gonna face this situation without showing them...

it is the punishment for those who take life from others...would you not think twice about committing murder if you happen to see the fate of a murderer with your naked eyes?

executions in Saudi arabia are not practiced unless there have been an undeniable proof of the murder or if the murderer confessed ...

and you think there is a going back when you throw a man in prison for oh like 13 years in a dirty tiny cell when it is proven that he is innocent? how would you compensate him for those lost 13 years?

the flaws and errors of the US penal system does not mean that executions is the wrong type of punishment

But from public executions thre is no assurance that the people watching will not be watching for thier own personnal amusement. Also, executions based on facts could also be potentially planted or the prisonner could be forced into making a confession. all these variables make me believe that the death penalty is never OK.

Deterrance hasn't been shown in America or in many countries that have death penalties. The goal is prevention and then punnishment.

If the jails are that bad, I'd focus on improving the jails. Compensation for those falsely accused.

of course there will be people just watching in search of amusement... and there will be people who are just curious... and there will be people who might have been thinking of committing murder as well... but we can't reveal what's on people's minds ..the only thing that all who witnessed the execution will agree on is that they would not like to be in the murderer's shoes at that moment... and that's deterrance for you

and about manipulating the facts... well... for one such things had happened in Saudi Arabia but even after the suspect signs his confession.. he will be asked in public and in front of everybody in court by the judge if he admits that he committed the crime... one story says that a suspect was tortured by the guards to sign a confession and when he was asked by the judge.. he said that he signed that confession under torture..so the judge dismissed that confession ... in Saudi Arabia ... they must be a 100% that the suspect is guilty before they execute him...

you would want to improve the prisons? you know that the US government spends around 30 thousand dollars per felon every year? where do you think the US comes up with that money? just take a wild guess

you are paying for it by your taxes... so this criminal is sent to jail because he stole your money and even when he is in jail..you are losing money to make sure that he is comfortable during his jail time..so why should i be punished for somebody's crimes by giving away my money?

and even if you design every cell to be like a ballroom ..it is still jail and these who are innocent still lose their rights and freedom and no matter how big their cells are... they are still confined to those cells and can not leave them

Seapearl · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:06 am Post subject:

Glorfindel wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Glorfindel wrote: googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Don't you think that public executions are really just bloodlust though? In my understanding the Koran prohibits people to feel glad for others death and for revenge. So I'm not quite sure how public executions or executions in general can be justified.

I believe that execution is wrong anyway since executions can be given to the wrong person or an innocent person and then there is no going back. That and it is still killing.

public executions are not held in the Colosseum..it is not like a gladiators fight...so it is not for fun ...

the goal behind public executions is deterrance...and you can't show people that anyone who commits murder is gonna face this situation without showing them...

it is the punishment for those who take life from others...would you not think twice about committing murder if you happen to see the fate of a murderer with your naked eyes?

executions in Saudi arabia are not practiced unless there have been an undeniable proof of the murder or if the murderer confessed ...

and you think there is a going back when you throw a man in prison for oh like 13 years in a dirty tiny cell when it is proven that he is innocent? how would you compensate him for those lost 13 years?

the flaws and errors of the US penal system does not mean that executions is the wrong type of punishment

Public executions don't make the state itself a murderer???? don't they degrade it to the same category/level?

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5632 Location: Fulton, Ks

Seapearl wrote: Glorfindel wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Glorfindel wrote: googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Don't you think that public executions are really just bloodlust though? In my understanding the Koran prohibits people to feel glad for others death and for revenge. So I'm not quite sure how public executions or executions in general can be justified.

I believe that execution is wrong anyway since executions can be given to the wrong person or an innocent person and then there is no going back. That and it is still killing.

public executions are not held in the Colosseum..it is not like a gladiators fight...so it is not for fun ...

the goal behind public executions is deterrance...and you can't show people that anyone who commits murder is gonna face this situation without showing them...

it is the punishment for those who take life from others...would you not think twice about committing murder if you happen to see the fate of a murderer with your naked eyes?

executions in Saudi arabia are not practiced unless there have been an undeniable proof of the murder or if the murderer confessed ...

and you think there is a going back when you throw a man in prison for oh like 13 years in a dirty tiny cell when it is proven that he is innocent? how would you compensate him for those lost 13 years?

the flaws and errors of the US penal system does not mean that executions is the wrong type of punishment

Public executions don't make the state itself a murderer???? don't they degrade it to the same category/level?
Just as much as war makes governments and soldiers murderers, different circumstances.

Seapearl · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject:

The Underground wrote: Seapearl wrote: Glorfindel wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Glorfindel wrote: googs8813 wrote: oOo...How bout if the family doesnt forgive the murderer?

then he is going to be executed...

in Saudi Arabia, the execution is done publicly in courtyard in front of the central court in Riyadh..and people come and watch because if you want deterrence to work, then you must let people see and also the execution must be witnessed

also a member of the victim's family must witness the execution as well

and also the scene of the execution has been always a massive factor into making the victim's family forgive the murderer...

man you can not imagine it.. but when they bring the murderer out and let him pray for the last time in his life and then kneel in front of everybody... it just brings mercy and forgivness out of people ..you can never believe how many lives were spared while the sword was raised

in fact last year, a prince was about to be executed for a murder he committed and the father of the victim refused to have money in exchange for the prince's life... it is said that the prince's mother spent the night before her son's execution on the door steps of the victim's father's house... and the victim's father never gave the word of forgivness until the prince was made to kneel in front of people with the sword on his neck

Don't you think that public executions are really just bloodlust though? In my understanding the Koran prohibits people to feel glad for others death and for revenge. So I'm not quite sure how public executions or executions in general can be justified.

I believe that execution is wrong anyway since executions can be given to the wrong person or an innocent person and then there is no going back. That and it is still killing.

public executions are not held in the Colosseum..it is not like a gladiators fight...so it is not for fun ...

the goal behind public executions is deterrance...and you can't show people that anyone who commits murder is gonna face this situation without showing them...

it is the punishment for those who take life from others...would you not think twice about committing murder if you happen to see the fate of a murderer with your naked eyes?

executions in Saudi arabia are not practiced unless there have been an undeniable proof of the murder or if the murderer confessed ...

and you think there is a going back when you throw a man in prison for oh like 13 years in a dirty tiny cell when it is proven that he is innocent? how would you compensate him for those lost 13 years?

the flaws and errors of the US penal system does not mean that executions is the wrong type of punishment

Public executions don't make the state itself a murderer???? don't they degrade it to the same category/level?
Just as much as war makes governments and soldiers murderers, different circumstances.

During war, governments and soldiers actually have a motive......in our case, what would be the state's motive in order to kill a citizen?

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5632 Location: Fulton, Ks

punishment/deterrant

Seapearl · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject:

The Underground wrote: punishment/deterrant

The state has to protect its citizens, not to kill them. The ultimate judge is an existence superior to every one else....Plus I think that by killing someone you relieve him from a difficult life.....plus you don't give him time or opportunity to truelly regret his actions

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Seapearl wrote: The Underground wrote: punishment/deterrant

The state has to protect its citizens, not to kill them. The ultimate judge is an existence superior to every one else....Plus I think that by killing someone you relieve him from a difficult life.....plus you don't give him time or opportunity to truelly regret his actions

Seapearl, you are right, and you bring up a good point. However, we differ on the issue of the death penalty because, you know what they say, "an eye for an eye".

spearsy23 · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5632 Location: Fulton, Ks

Seapearl wrote: The Underground wrote: punishment/deterrant

The state has to protect its citizens, not to kill them. The ultimate judge is an existence superior to every one else....Plus I think that by killing someone you relieve him from a difficult life.....plus you don't give him time or opportunity to truelly regret his actions
If killing one citizen has the potential to save several more then the state is protecting citizens. The ultimate judge has no bearing here. As for relieving from a difficult life, well i guess he's being helped by the state then. And come on if he hasn't regretted his crimes by the time the trial is over he's never going to. Sure years later he'll regret that he got caught but they're not the same thing.