Political Crossfire Forums

[George W Bush]

Ide like to know what makes someone opposed to liberalism?

On the right (right wingers) side, you have the 'moral' police who think Government should enforce stricter legislation in order to create a 'decent' society.

Theres also the right who believe in less government - to axe welfare and make everyone work even if they cannot.

ON the left, government should NOT enforce morality as we are free people with the right to act as we please as long as no laws are broken.

Also on the left, welfare works. It keeps people fed, keeps them contributing to the economy, and keeps them alive. If they cant work, they shouldnt have to die.

I'm interested in seeing some responses to this.

[JackarooSundown]

George W Bush wrote: Ide like to know what makes someone opposed to liberalism?

On the right (right wingers) side, you have the 'moral' police who think Government should enforce stricter legislation in order to create a 'decent' society.

Theres also the right who believe in less government - to axe welfare and make everyone work even if they cannot.

ON the left, government should NOT enforce morality as we are free people with the right to act as we please as long as no laws are broken.

Also on the left, welfare works. It keeps people fed, keeps them contributing to the economy, and keeps them alive. If they cant work, they shouldnt have to die.

I'm interested in seeing some responses to this.

I don't HATE their policies, i am disgusted with the people themselves (not all liberals) No, im talking about the kooks who spend all of their time attacking our country and our values.

[mojo]

George W Bush wrote: Ide like to know what makes someone opposed to liberalism?

On the right (right wingers) side, you have the 'moral' police who think Government should enforce stricter legislation in order to create a 'decent' society.

Theres also the right who believe in less government - to axe welfare and make everyone work even if they cannot.

ON the left, government should NOT enforce morality as we are free people with the right to act as we please as long as no laws are broken.

Also on the left, welfare works. It keeps people fed, keeps them contributing to the economy, and keeps them alive. If they cant work, they shouldnt have to die.

I'm interested in seeing some responses to this.

I wouldn't say I hate liberals. In fact I can carry on a fairly intelligent debate with many liberals. The problem is that when they become so blinded by hatred either of the administration or "dirty corporations" that they hide themselves in a jestful joke or quick anecdote rather than carry on an intelligent debate. ( I could name a few on this website).

I hate the liberal philosophy that work isn't earned but is a product of chance or innate circumstance. I hate the fact that many liberals believe that I should live for the sake of another man and sacrafice the well being of my own life in the philosophy. It is the creed of ignorance, the philosophy of guilt, and the proponent of failure.

[Quicksurf]

Why do I hate liberals?

I don't hate them as much as you hate George Bush, which is for certain. Yet I hate their ideolgy which has been disproven so many times in history, and it is almost mind "boggling" that people actually believe that liberalism can work. Economic prosperity does not come from government rules or regulations. We do not live in "rich" America because our founding fathers wanted a liberal society. We a wealthy nation because of our economic freedoms and capitalist market.

[Zarathustra]

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[anselfir]

Depends.

To honestly answer the impulse that drives hatred for particular ideas. Basically these hatred are reactionary, and being strong, they proceed from things one care most strongly about. Not just issues, but the passions behind ideas. For a communist who hates capitalism, it may be a hidden revulsion of luxury+leisure, etc.

as for the thread starter, get over yoruself already.

[Zarathustra]

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[Quicksurf]

Zarathustra wrote: How long do you think Jesus would last in the hands of our “good Christian” friends? If Christ returned to earth, he would be assassinated by Pat Robertson.

I have heard Pat Robertson apologize for saying those remarks.

Yet I am sure Muhammed would be burned alive by Muslims for insulting Islam.

[The Grandmaster]

George W Bush wrote: Ide like to know what makes someone opposed to liberalism?

On the right (right wingers) side, you have the 'moral' police who think Government should enforce stricter legislation in order to create a 'decent' society.

Theres also the right who believe in less government - to axe welfare and make everyone work even if they cannot.

ON the left, government should NOT enforce morality as we are free people with the right to act as we please as long as no laws are broken.

Also on the left, welfare works. It keeps people fed, keeps them contributing to the economy, and keeps them alive. If they cant work, they shouldnt have to die.

I'm interested in seeing some responses to this.

Some good points here, yes. I've wondered the same things myself, every day.

[George W Bush]

JackarooSundown wrote:
I don't HATE their policies, i am disgusted with the people themselves (not all liberals) No, im talking about the kooks who spend all of their time attacking our country and our values.

Attacking our country .. That is overemphasis of critical dialog of citizens rewarded with that right.
There are opinions about our foreign policy which may seem like an attack but do you suggest blind loyalty? For example, ignore the tactics the CIA do to topple 'unacceptable' governments?

I dont think its a "liberal thing" to criticise government for the work we pay them to do. Not many would say blind loyalty is the ideal.
But, i'm not sure what you suggest 'attacking the country' is.
Can you clear that up?

[ieatfood]

Because liberals are arrogant.

THey have this kind of elitist attitude--they feel like they're more educated, or more civilized or somehow better than everyone else.

They're not.

[George W Bush]

ieatfood wrote: Because liberals are arrogant.

THey have this kind of elitist attitude--they feel like they're more educated, or more civilized or somehow better than everyone else.

They're not.

Arrogance is not specific to liberals.
Arrogance may even be an AMERICAN trait.
America is blatantly arrogant: pride, in-your-face foreign policy, 'you are either with us or against us' attitude. I'm sure theres more.

In that regard, it would seem, you hate America. But, who knows?
I guess I do too.

[Phaedrus]

A rose, by any other name...

It seems to me that Liberalism (call it Progressive-ism, if you like) tends towards Socialism. Not all at once, mind you... but incrementally. Increasing government services always requires increases in taxation. To protect one group, government must regulate another; greater and greater governmental interference in society. The "rugged individualist" despises the Nanny-State and, by extension, those who push for it.

"To each according to his need; from each according to his ability." This statement sounds reasonable. It is the very essence of the Progressive tax system. It was first espoused (if memory serves me correctly) by Carl Marx. It is fundamental communist dogma. Communism claims to be the only "moral" form of government, in that it seeks fairness and equality amongst the population. After a fashion, it achieves this goal; equal oppression, no private ownership, absolute governmental regulation of all things.

It is my assertion that people oppose "Liberalism" because, in it, they hear echoes of communism.

[raf]

Liberals and Conservatives, Right-Wingers and Left-Wingers, we need them all as they balance each other out. I consider myself as a liberal and I can see why some people hate us, because they see liberals as arrogant and elitist. However, couldn’t you say that about some right wingers and conservatives? Yes, people do find conservative Americans arrogant and elitist, whether you agree or not. In fact Liberals and Conservatives fight amongst themselves about who is more intellectual and right, in the process sounding arrogant to each other. The fact is they are both extremes and on the political spectrum, they tend to be alike. So why do people hate liberals? For the same reasons why people hate conservatives.

[justpassingthrough]

This is all coming from a liberal Canadian point of view.

A lot of anti-liberal people out there seem to be the kind of people who would jump in a lifeboat and get as far away from a burning, sinking ship as they could, fearing anyone else coming on would tip their boat and drown them. Me, I'm the guy who would go back in and rescue as many as I possible, potentially putting my life in danger but, in the process, doing what I think most would agree as the right thing.

I don't understand those who believe that if you work hard, you'll succeed. That only happens in the fictional American dream. How many work their butts off with multiple jobs and only earn enough to barely support a family. Sure, success happens, but usually it is a matter of being at the right place at the right time.

How many ethnic minorities exist in the highest levels of Fortune 500 companies? Is it because they don't work hard, or is it because they fight a prejudice uphill battle?

As for the threat of Communism? Whatever. The countries with the highest standard of living according to the UN annual report are socialist-leaning countries, not communist countries. Scandinavia and Canada continuously rank at the top and both enjoy higher taxes, universal healthcare, and a broad social net.

There are a lot of people on this forum I would not want to be on a sinking ship with. I guess they think it's not their problem if no one else can swim or didn't get a lifeboat in time.

[ieatfood]

George W Bush wrote: ieatfood wrote: Because liberals are arrogant.

THey have this kind of elitist attitude--they feel like they're more educated, or more civilized or somehow better than everyone else.

They're not.

Arrogance is not specific to liberals.
Arrogance may even be an AMERICAN trait.
America is blatantly arrogant: pride, in-your-face foreign policy, 'you are either with us or against us' attitude. I'm sure theres more.

In that regard, it would seem, you hate America. But, who knows?
I guess I do too.

i woudn't call americans arrogant so much as nonchalant. It's not that we're pompous. We simply don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Americans certainly arent ELITEST. That's the liberals' worst trait.

I don't believe that conservatives have the same elitest tone (eg. I went to Haaaavard and so I know better than you).

[George W Bush]

the whole 'communist' thing.

dont you believe communism is a consequence of limited resource? and that countries prosperous naturally shift to more capitalist leaning?

As far as government, I tend to believe government is naturally ballooning. That is, departments are creating work for themselves in order to sustain their positions. More laws are being created to "protect" us.

Being liberal, I want less government. Less intrusion into my personal life, more freedom to do what I want without the nosyness of a paternal supervision of my activity.

This, to me, is the idea behind liberalism: more freedom. I believe conservatives object to this ideal because they want a moral society behaved to the standards of, what they percieve, as goodness. The only way to meet this standard is to enhance legislation (create more government).

Thats they way i see it.

[mojo]

George W Bush wrote: the whole 'communist' thing.

dont you believe communism is a consequence of limited resource? and that countries prosperous naturally shift to more capitalist leaning?

As far as government, I tend to believe government is naturally ballooning. That is, departments are creating work for themselves in order to sustain their positions. More laws are being created to "protect" us.

Being liberal, I want less government. Less intrusion into my personal life, more freedom to do what I want without the nosyness of a paternal supervision of my activity.

This, to me, is the idea behind liberalism: more freedom. I believe conservatives object to this ideal because they want a moral society behaved to the standards of, what they percieve, as goodness. The only way to meet this standard is to enhance legislation (create more government).

Thats they way i see it.

Liberals want every freedom accept the most important one: economic freedom.

No other freedoms can be entrusted without economic freedom. Just like in Somalia, they are free in every regard except economically. They are constrained to the fees of the warlords that threaten to murder them unless they pay a form of taxes.

[Zoot]

George W Bush wrote: Ide like to know what makes someone opposed to liberalism?

On the right (right wingers) side, you have the 'moral' police who think Government should enforce stricter legislation in order to create a 'decent' society.

Theres also the right who believe in less government - to axe welfare and make everyone work even if they cannot.

ON the left, government should NOT enforce morality as we are free people with the right to act as we please as long as no laws are broken.

Also on the left, welfare works. It keeps people fed, keeps them contributing to the economy, and keeps them alive. If they cant work, they shouldnt have to die.

I'm interested in seeing some responses to this.


As a left-wing libertarian, I am opposed in principle to state welfare because it only mitigates the worst effects of capitalism while making people reliant on the very system that imposes and upholds capitalism (the state).

That's just an example of how you can't break things down to just "left" and "right".

[Zoot]

Quote: Liberals want every freedom accept the most important one: economic freedom.

Actually, right-wing minarchist "libertarians" want every freedom except for economic freedom.

Economic freedom is controlling the full product of your labour.

Capitalism is directly opposed to economic freedom.