Political Crossfire Forums

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject:

SpellJammer wrote: HomoU, don't you have a life or something instead of wasting your time following SpellJammer around like a lost puppy?

Are we not all lost puppies in the storm, blind to the impending danger of the rapidly approaching truck called death?

Quote: And Sailor Moon, you once again show your wisdom and grace, SpellJammer's heart is fluttering.. :wink:

You have a connection with women. I think it'd be called 'pity'.

Quote: Sorry, hun- (HU) but I consider 40 million babies to be a much larger "minority" number requiring some form of protection than the less than 50 women who died in both 1972 AND 1973....

Verily, yet who are you protecting? What degree of life are you protecting? Must life be venerated like something too valuable to even question? Have we not learned better from Socrates, who would rather die than live a less than virtuous life? Would you be the one to go to those children of those 40 million, who after years of systematic abuse decide to kill themselves, or worse, others? It is easy to speak judgement against those who face one of the most difficult choices of a lifetime. Even harder, I guess, when you have people condemning you outside the very clinic where the doom of your life was made - or rather, unmade.

At what age, do you feel, began your capability to better than others know what was good for them and their (unborn) children?

Mr U

Mycroft147 · Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 142 Location: minnesota

Homo,
Get back to the basic point. Abortion violates the basic human right to life. No matter what sort of life someone is going to have, it doesnt justify the arbitrary ending of it by murder.

SpellJammer · Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 84

Mycroft147 wrote: Homo,
Get back to the basic point.
You don't know him like SpellJammer does. He's a troll and a loser. He'll just randomly insult you and spam till you give-in to his insanity.. :roll:
Quote: Abortion violates the basic human right to life. No matter what sort of life someone is going to have, it doesnt justify the arbitrary ending of it by murder.
Couldn't of said it better SpellJammer's self. You got a good soul. 8:)

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

HomoUniversalis wrote: SpellJammer wrote: HomoU, don't you have a life or something instead of wasting your time following SpellJammer around like a lost puppy?

Are we not all lost puppies in the storm, blind to the impending danger of the rapidly approaching truck called death?

Quote: And Sailor Moon, you once again show your wisdom and grace, SpellJammer's heart is fluttering.. :wink:

You have a connection with women. I think it'd be called 'pity'.

Quote: Sorry, hun- (HU) but I consider 40 million babies to be a much larger "minority" number requiring some form of protection than the less than 50 women who died in both 1972 AND 1973....

Verily, yet who are you protecting? What degree of life are you protecting? Must life be venerated like something too valuable to even question? Have we not learned better from Socrates, who would rather die than live a less than virtuous life? Would you be the one to go to those children of those 40 million, who after years of systematic abuse decide to kill themselves, or worse, others? It is easy to speak judgement against those who face one of the most difficult choices of a lifetime. Even harder, I guess, when you have people condemning you outside the very clinic where the doom of your life was made - or rather, unmade.

At what age, do you feel, began your capability to better than others know what was good for them and their (unborn) children?

Mr U

I have one reason more than you ever will: a uterus that was turned to a grave. Do you have a uterus? Then how do YOU know whats best for women and their children? Not that you dont have the right to an opinion, but youre really being hypocritical right now.

There is no degree of life. There is just LIFE. And the rest of your post is based on fanatical speculation, surely based on some sort of psychic ability you so clearly (dont) possess.

Nobody stands right outside of clinics. Ive been to one, and there was not one person outside. I dont judge women for doing and denying their misdeeds against their children, just as I dont judge myself for my own misdeed. Judgement has a time and a place. I do resent the clinic staffers, though, and work hard to show their true colors. Whether you like that or not, is not at all my concern.

Oh and to answer your final question- it wasnt my age, as I wasnt even born yet. It mut have been the collective average age of the Supreme Court, since they were the ones making this "difficult" choice legal, not I.

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:29 am Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: I have one reason more than you ever will: a uterus that was turned to a grave. Do you have a uterus? Then how do YOU know whats best for women and their children? Not that you dont have the right to an opinion, but youre really being hypocritical right now.

Why is that? I allow women to make the choice. I admit my ignorance on the matter, and give those women the opportunity to make the decision I believe they are entitled to make.

Quote: There is no degree of life. There is just LIFE. And the rest of your post is based on fanatical speculation, surely based on some sort of psychic ability you so clearly (dont) possess.

Right. No idea what you are ranting about here, but regarding the degree of life... There are groups within buddhists who can not bear themselves to tread on grass without the fear of killing some grass. The whole notion of life being some superior concept that must be protected is not only absurd, it's unnatural. No being spawned by life shares this veneration. In fact, it is the lack of veneration that caused life to evolve as it has this way!

Quote: Nobody stands right outside of clinics. Ive been to one, and there was not one person outside.

You deny the existence of protests? Whether they are there or not does not change the pressure placed on them.

Quote: I dont judge women for doing and denying their misdeeds against their children, just as I dont judge myself for my own misdeed. Judgement has a time and a place. I do resent the clinic staffers, though, and work hard to show their true colors. Whether you like that or not, is not at all my concern.

You might not judge, but you wish to restrain them in executing their freedom nonetheless.

Quote: Oh and to answer your final question- it wasnt my age, as I wasnt even born yet. It mut have been the collective average age of the Supreme Court, since they were the ones making this "difficult" choice legal, not I.

No, that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking at what age you became capable of feeling you could tell other people what to do. When you believed that your opinion was strong enough to enforce on the lives of others.

Spelljammer, please.

Mr U

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

HomoUniversalis wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: I have one reason more than you ever will: a uterus that was turned to a grave. Do you have a uterus? Then how do YOU know whats best for women and their children? Not that you dont have the right to an opinion, but youre really being hypocritical right now.

Why is that? I allow women to make the choice. I admit my ignorance on the matter, and give those women the opportunity to make the decision I believe they are entitled to make.

Surely your "masculinist" avatar has nothing to do with it at all?

Quote: Quote: There is no degree of life. There is just LIFE. And the rest of your post is based on fanatical speculation, surely based on some sort of psychic ability you so clearly (dont) possess.

Right. No idea what you are ranting about here, but regarding the degree of life... There are groups within buddhists who can not bear themselves to tread on grass without the fear of killing some grass. The whole notion of life being some superior concept that must be protected is not only absurd, it's unnatural. No being spawned by life shares this veneration. In fact, it is the lack of veneration that caused life to evolve as it has this way!

Abortion stops evolution (if you believe in that sort of thing). Its unreasonable. Its irrational, and it contributes zilch to the development of the human race.

Quote: Quote: Nobody stands right outside of clinics. Ive been to one, and there was not one person outside.

You deny the existence of protests? Whether they are there or not does not change the pressure placed on them.

I was taken to my abortion by a pro life person who couldnt conceive. Sorry, but there is no pressure. The pro choice lobby pushes too hard for misinformation and female shielding of the truth. They even have a 1000 foot restraining order on protestors, so good luck trying to find any of these within 10 football fields of the clinics, my friend.
Quote:
Quote: I dont judge women for doing and denying their misdeeds against their children, just as I dont judge myself for my own misdeed. Judgement has a time and a place. I do resent the clinic staffers, though, and work hard to show their true colors. Whether you like that or not, is not at all my concern.

You might not judge, but you wish to restrain them in executing their freedom nonetheless.

Killing is not freedom- its oppression. And I wish I had 2 kids, rather than just one, also, thank you. I dont consider my own abortion to have been a justified choice, I consider it to be a murder.

Quote: Quote: Oh and to answer your final question- it wasnt my age, as I wasnt even born yet. It mut have been the collective average age of the Supreme Court, since they were the ones making this "difficult" choice legal, not I.

No, that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking at what age you became capable of feeling you could tell other people what to do. When you believed that your opinion was strong enough to enforce on the lives of others.

And I answered by telling you that the collective age of the Supreme Court in 73, was the opinion that seemed to be strong enough to impose legalized death on the lives of millions of children.

AmericaFirst · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:50 am Post subject:

whatnotwho wrote: I'm pro life but the main issue for me is the lack of responsibility for one's actions. With all the means of birth control available, it's irresponsible for anyone to become pregnant who doesn't choose to.
Abortion is just another tool to fix the ignorance of both sexes and fuels the idea with our youth that sex is just a social game we can play with no consequences.

VERY well said!! I agree completely. While I am a Christian, I voted for the one that states it is a matter of morality. I think it is RIDICULOUS that the crowd who says a 15-year old shouldn't have to have Mommy and Dady's consent to get an abortion are among those who think it is perfectly logical that the same 15 year old can't get a unicorn tattooed on her derriere.

Our society (and not just the U.S.) is becoming so morally lax about EVERYTHING it is SCARY. I'm not talking about imposing Puritanical value-systems on anyone - I'm talking about a little thing called "Common Decency". It should NOT be ok that a woman can have five kids by three different men, none of whom she married or even lives with. It should NOT be ok that a guy has kids with women all over the place and is not supporting any of them, emotionally and/or financially.

I read somewhere a while back that the average number of abortions in Italy is like 4 (or 6 or some other shocking number) per women old enough to conceive. Recently I found a statistic saying about 43% of women who have an abortion have already had one or more before.

It all comes down to common decency - something we ALL are sorely lacking in at times (I'll admit to it on occasion myself). Again, I'm not talking about religion or anything, I'm talking about decency.

Mycroft147 · Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 142 Location: minnesota

Get back to the main topic. Abortion is murder, nothing justifies murder. The pro life stance comes from believing that murder should not be legal.

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:12 am Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: Surely your "masculinist" avatar has nothing to do with it at all?

My avatar is a parody on the various labels people choose to bring meaning to their life. Feminists who believe so blindly in the superiority of the female sex that with emancipation, they actually mean focusing society on the female role.

Quote: Abortion stops evolution (if you believe in that sort of thing). Its unreasonable. Its irrational, and it contributes zilch to the development of the human race.

Nothing stops evolution. It is a natural means of selection. Mankind does not exercise power of evolution. Or, per example, gravity. These are engines of nature that exist. If we were to kill ourselves completely, it would be evolution.

Quote: I was taken to my abortion by a pro life person who couldnt conceive. Sorry, but there is no pressure. The pro choice lobby pushes too hard for misinformation and female shielding of the truth. They even have a 1000 foot restraining order on protestors, so good luck trying to find any of these within 10 football fields of the clinics, my friend.

I'm not part of the pro choice lobby. Merely because 'black rights' organisations are doing some dumb stuff now and than doesn't mean that their original principles are incorrect. If you are talking about pragmatism, this'll be a completely different discussion, I'd agree.

Quote: Killing is not freedom- its oppression. And I wish I had 2 kids, rather than just one, also, thank you. I dont consider my own abortion to have been a justified choice, I consider it to be a murder.

It saddens me that you were not informed enough about the abortion, and were not inspired to think about your decision enough. I believe that to be an important step of the process. A required step, might I add.

Quote: And I answered by telling you that the collective age of the Supreme Court in 73, was the opinion that seemed to be strong enough to impose legalized death on the lives of millions of children.

You are not answering my question. My question is about you. At what point in your life did you feel you were competent enough to tell other people what to do, ergo, to limit their freedoms. Why do you feel you must take the freedom away from other people, merely because you have had bad experiences?

That said, the phrases you choose are awfully bad chosen. Terms like murder and killing do not apply to abortion. Legally, these phrases are incorrect, as the unborn humans at that time do not yet possess rights.

Quote: Get back to the main topic. Abortion is murder, nothing justifies murder. The pro life stance comes from believing that murder should not be legal.

Abortion is not murder. Secondary, I advise you to read Spinoza. Rights are derived from the state, not human nature.

Mr U

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

HomoUniversalis wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: Surely your "masculinist" avatar has nothing to do with it at all?

My avatar is a parody on the various labels people choose to bring meaning to their life. Feminists who believe so blindly in the superiority of the female sex that with emancipation, they actually mean focusing society on the female role.

I dont believe that, personally, but I can see where you are coming from in this regard- just remember its the fewest of feminists that proscribe to this agenda, not all of them. And also, there seem to be a great many things that women happen to be much better at than men, in business, and in investing, even, that we deserve to get recognition for.

Quote: Quote: Abortion stops evolution (if you believe in that sort of thing). Its unreasonable. Its irrational, and it contributes zilch to the development of the human race.

Nothing stops evolution. It is a natural means of selection. Mankind does not exercise power of evolution. Or, per example, gravity. These are engines of nature that exist. If we were to kill ourselves completely, it would be evolution.

Theres no such thing as evolution, and this is not the forum for this. Abortion is destructive to our race of humans. Thats the bottom line.

Quote: Quote: I was taken to my abortion by a pro life person who couldnt conceive. Sorry, but there is no pressure. The pro choice lobby pushes too hard for misinformation and female shielding of the truth. They even have a 1000 foot restraining order on protestors, so good luck trying to find any of these within 10 football fields of the clinics, my friend.

I'm not part of the pro choice lobby. Merely because 'black rights' organisations are doing some dumb stuff now and than doesn't mean that their original principles are incorrect. If you are talking about pragmatism, this'll be a completely different discussion, I'd agree.

I really dont know what youre talking about. I am simply giving you facts, not assauting your character. What are you getting at here? And please dont delete my first post, cause its too hard to follow along with the topic when you do that.

Quote: Quote: Killing is not freedom- its oppression. And I wish I had 2 kids, rather than just one, also, thank you. I dont consider my own abortion to have been a justified choice, I consider it to be a murder.

It saddens me that you were not informed enough about the abortion, and were not inspired to think about your decision enough. I believe that to be an important step of the process. A required step, might I add.

I think so too. I had mine 10 1/2 years ago, and there really wasnt a computer in every home or in cafes or anything back then. The internet had just begun, so we basically had to ask the clinics, whom we thought had our "choice" in mind as a real choice, and respected us to make informed decisions, however they did not, and they still dont. I do think it should be required to tell the truth about abortion, though. And dont be so condescending, please. I SERIOUSLY doubt you will ever have to come forward with a sad abortion story of your own, so its easy to be hateful towards those of us who have. Knock that off.

Quote: Quote: And I answered by telling you that the collective age of the Supreme Court in 73, was the opinion that seemed to be strong enough to impose legalized death on the lives of millions of children.

You are not answering my question. My question is about you. At what point in your life did you feel you were competent enough to tell other people what to do, ergo, to limit their freedoms. Why do you feel you must take the freedom away from other people, merely because you have had bad experiences?

That said, the phrases you choose are awfully bad chosen. Terms like murder and killing do not apply to abortion. Legally, these phrases are incorrect, as the unborn humans at that time do not yet possess rights.

I answered your question twice now. The supreme court made the ruling for killing individual human beings, I did not.

Quote: Quote: Get back to the main topic. Abortion is murder, nothing justifies murder. The pro life stance comes from believing that murder should not be legal.

Abortion is not murder. Secondary, I advise you to read Spinoza. Rights are derived from the state, not human nature.

Mr U

No we dont "GET" rights, we inherit them. You obviously have no clue what inalienable rights mean. If you want to think we are "privilaged" to rights, then you are SOOOOO wrong, and need to take a few courses on law and the Constitution. The Constitution did not "GIVE" us any rights, it ENSURED them. It ENSURED us the right to life. It wrote down the very rights that nobody should ever have taken away from them without due process. Thats how the law works. Your way "dictates" or "privilages" rights to people, as if its entirely up to the law to say what our rights are. Sorry, but thats just not how it works.

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:49 am Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: I dont believe that, personally, but I can see where you are coming from in this regard- just remember its the fewest of feminists that proscribe to this agenda, not all of them. And also, there seem to be a great many things that women happen to be much better at than men, in business, and in investing, even, that we deserve to get recognition for.

I disagree, I believe women are just as incapable of doing good work as men.

Quote: Theres no such thing as evolution, and this is not the forum for this.

Than don't make that statement. If you aren't willing to back it up, don't make it.

Quote: Abortion is destructive to our race of humans. Thats the bottom line.

Prove it.

Quote: I really dont know what youre talking about. I am simply giving you facts, not assauting your character. What are you getting at here? And please dont delete my first post, cause its too hard to follow along with the topic when you do that.

I'm not saying you are assaulting me. And delete your first post? Oh, well, I'll start doing that from now. I don't like quotes to accumulate. It's messy.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Killing is not freedom- its oppression. And I wish I had 2 kids, rather than just one, also, thank you. I dont consider my own abortion to have been a justified choice, I consider it to be a murder.

It saddens me that you were not informed enough about the abortion, and were not inspired to think about your decision enough. I believe that to be an important step of the process. A required step, might I add.

I think so too. I had mine 10 1/2 years ago, and there really wasnt a computer in every home or in cafes or anything back then. The internet had just begun, so we basically had to ask the clinics, whom we thought had our "choice" in mind as a real choice, and respected us to make informed decisions, however they did not, and they still dont. I do think it should be required to tell the truth about abortion, though. And dont be so condescending, please. I SERIOUSLY doubt you will ever have to come forward with a sad abortion story of your own, so its easy to be hateful towards those of us who have. Knock that off.

Why do you doubt that? I'm not being condescending. You are being condescending to yourself by regretting past actions, while in fact you were not well enough informed. You are the one who has to face his past, not me.

Quote: Quote: Quote: And I answered by telling you that the collective age of the Supreme Court in 73, was the opinion that seemed to be strong enough to impose legalized death on the lives of millions of children.

You are not answering my question. My question is about you. At what point in your life did you feel you were competent enough to tell other people what to do, ergo, to limit their freedoms. Why do you feel you must take the freedom away from other people, merely because you have had bad experiences?

That said, the phrases you choose are awfully bad chosen. Terms like murder and killing do not apply to abortion. Legally, these phrases are incorrect, as the unborn humans at that time do not yet possess rights.

I answered your question twice now. The supreme court made the ruling for killing individual human beings, I did not.

No, you are not answering it. Nevertheless, I understand now, from other points. You have confidence in law and government. You believe in order. I do not.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Get back to the main topic. Abortion is murder, nothing justifies murder. The pro life stance comes from believing that murder should not be legal.

Abortion is not murder. Secondary, I advise you to read Spinoza. Rights are derived from the state, not human nature.

Mr U

No we dont "GET" rights, we inherit them. You obviously have no clue what inalienable rights mean. If you want to think we are "privilaged" to rights, then you are SOOOOO wrong, and need to take a few courses on law and the Constitution. The Constitution did not "GIVE" us any rights, it ENSURED them. It ENSURED us the right to life. It wrote down the very rights that nobody should ever have taken away from them without due process. Thats how the law works. Your way "dictates" or "privilages" rights to people, as if its entirely up to the law to say what our rights are. Sorry, but thats just not how it works.

Please. We obviously view the concept of order differently. No harm done. I doubt it would influence the main topic too much.

Mr U

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

HomoUniversalis wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: I dont believe that, personally, but I can see where you are coming from in this regard- just remember its the fewest of feminists that proscribe to this agenda, not all of them. And also, there seem to be a great many things that women happen to be much better at than men, in business, and in investing, even, that we deserve to get recognition for.

I disagree, I believe women are just as incapable of doing good work as men.

Primarily women owned businesses happen to be more successful then primarily male owned. This is all very Ot, though.. and yes men and women can both be in capable or superior, its all individualistic.

Quote: Quote: Theres no such thing as evolution, and this is not the forum for this.

Than don't make that statement. If you aren't willing to back it up, don't make it.

Ok, you want to ay that if humans all killed themselves off, that it would BE evolution, but thats just not true, because it would forcibly end the evolution of a species that was otherwise well off.

Quote: Quote: Abortion is destructive to our race of humans. Thats the bottom line.

Prove it.

See the UNs statements on the worlds fertility rates, in their population reports. They have been doing population estimates for 2050 for many years now, and the numbers have gone down so much, that their last report couldnt come to a reliable conclusion that there would even be an increase in 2050.

Quote: Quote: Quote: I really dont know what youre talking about. I am simply giving you facts, not assauting your character. What are you getting at here? And please dont delete my first post, cause its too hard to follow along with the topic when you do that.

I'm not saying you are assaulting me. And delete your first post? Oh, well, I'll start doing that from now. I don't like quotes to accumulate. It's messy.

Please read- I said DONT delete.

Quote: Quote: I think so too. I had mine 10 1/2 years ago, and there really wasnt a computer in every home or in cafes or anything back then. The internet had just begun, so we basically had to ask the clinics, whom we thought had our "choice" in mind as a real choice, and respected us to make informed decisions, however they did not, and they still dont. I do think it should be required to tell the truth about abortion, though. And dont be so condescending, please. I SERIOUSLY doubt you will ever have to come forward with a sad abortion story of your own, so its easy to be hateful towards those of us who have. Knock that off.

Why do you doubt that? I'm not being condescending. You are being condescending to yourself by regretting past actions, while in fact you were not well enough informed. You are the one who has to face his past, not me.

No I amnot being condescending towards myself. How dare you be so presumptuous! And you treated me as if I "cared less" to inform myself, which WAS condescending.

Quote: Quote:

You are not answering my question. My question is about you. At what point in your life did you feel you were competent enough to tell other people what to do, ergo, to limit their freedoms. Why do you feel you must take the freedom away from other people, merely because you have had bad experiences?

That said, the phrases you choose are awfully bad chosen. Terms like murder and killing do not apply to abortion. Legally, these phrases are incorrect, as the unborn humans at that time do not yet possess rights.

I answered your question twice now. The supreme court made the ruling for killing individual human beings, I did not.

No, you are not answering it. Nevertheless, I understand now, from other points. You have confidence in law and government. You believe in order. I do not.[/quote]

So youre an anarchist?

Quote: Quote: No we dont "GET" rights, we inherit them. You obviously have no clue what inalienable rights mean. If you want to think we are "privilaged" to rights, then you are SOOOOO wrong, and need to take a few courses on law and the Constitution. The Constitution did not "GIVE" us any rights, it ENSURED them. It ENSURED us the right to life. It wrote down the very rights that nobody should ever have taken away from them without due process. Thats how the law works. Your way "dictates" or "privilages" rights to people, as if its entirely up to the law to say what our rights are. Sorry, but thats just not how it works.

Please. We obviously view the concept of order differently. No harm done. I doubt it would influence the main topic too much.

Mr U
Great. I guess youre done debating this then?

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: HomoUniversalis wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: I dont believe that, personally, but I can see where you are coming from in this regard- just remember its the fewest of feminists that proscribe to this agenda, not all of them. And also, there seem to be a great many things that women happen to be much better at than men, in business, and in investing, even, that we deserve to get recognition for.

I disagree, I believe women are just as incapable of doing good work as men.

Primarily women owned businesses happen to be more successful then primarily male owned. This is all very Ot, though.. and yes men and women can both be in capable or superior, its all individualistic.

Could you please provide statistics from a peer-reviewed journal?

Quote: Quote: Quote: Theres no such thing as evolution, and this is not the forum for this.

Than don't make that statement. If you aren't willing to back it up, don't make it.

Ok, you want to ay that if humans all killed themselves off, that it would BE evolution, but thats just not true, because it would forcibly end the evolution of a species that was otherwise well off.[/quote]

No, it would be natural selection. Whatever means was used to terminate humanity, man as a species would be unable to adapt to it, obviously.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Abortion is destructive to our race of humans. Thats the bottom line.

Prove it.

See the UNs statements on the worlds fertility rates, in their population reports. They have been doing population estimates for 2050 for many years now, and the numbers have gone down so much, that their last report couldnt come to a reliable conclusion that there would even be an increase in 2050.

Quote: Quote: Quote: I really dont know what youre talking about. I am simply giving you facts, not assauting your character. What are you getting at here? And please dont delete my first post, cause its too hard to follow along with the topic when you do that.

I'm not saying you are assaulting me. And delete your first post? Oh, well, I'll start doing that from now. I don't like quotes to accumulate. It's messy.

Please read- I said DONT delete.

Yes, I rephrased in asking about deleting your first post in the past.. Nevermind.

Quote: Quote: Quote: I think so too. I had mine 10 1/2 years ago, and there really wasnt a computer in every home or in cafes or anything back then. The internet had just begun, so we basically had to ask the clinics, whom we thought had our "choice" in mind as a real choice, and respected us to make informed decisions, however they did not, and they still dont. I do think it should be required to tell the truth about abortion, though. And dont be so condescending, please. I SERIOUSLY doubt you will ever have to come forward with a sad abortion story of your own, so its easy to be hateful towards those of us who have. Knock that off.

Why do you doubt that? I'm not being condescending. You are being condescending to yourself by regretting past actions, while in fact you were not well enough informed. You are the one who has to face his past, not me.

No I amnot being condescending towards myself. How dare you be so presumptuous! And you treated me as if I "cared less" to inform myself, which WAS condescending.

Please.

Quote: Quote: Quote: You are not answering my question. My question is about you. At what point in your life did you feel you were competent enough to tell other people what to do, ergo, to limit their freedoms. Why do you feel you must take the freedom away from other people, merely because you have had bad experiences?

That said, the phrases you choose are awfully bad chosen. Terms like murder and killing do not apply to abortion. Legally, these phrases are incorrect, as the unborn humans at that time do not yet possess rights.

I answered your question twice now. The supreme court made the ruling for killing individual human beings, I did not.

No, you are not answering it. Nevertheless, I understand now, from other points. You have confidence in law and government. You believe in order. I do not.

So youre an anarchist?[/quote]

In a sense. More libertarian, however.

Quote: Quote: Quote: No we dont "GET" rights, we inherit them. You obviously have no clue what inalienable rights mean. If you want to think we are "privilaged" to rights, then you are SOOOOO wrong, and need to take a few courses on law and the Constitution. The Constitution did not "GIVE" us any rights, it ENSURED them. It ENSURED us the right to life. It wrote down the very rights that nobody should ever have taken away from them without due process. Thats how the law works. Your way "dictates" or "privilages" rights to people, as if its entirely up to the law to say what our rights are. Sorry, but thats just not how it works.

Please. We obviously view the concept of order differently. No harm done. I doubt it would influence the main topic too much.

Mr U
Great. I guess youre done debating this then?

Not if you actually have arguments why abortion should be stopped..

Mr U

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

HomoUniversalis wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: HomoUniversalis wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: I dont believe that, personally, but I can see where you are coming from in this regard- just remember its the fewest of feminists that proscribe to this agenda, not all of them. And also, there seem to be a great many things that women happen to be much better at than men, in business, and in investing, even, that we deserve to get recognition for.

I disagree, I believe women are just as incapable of doing good work as men.

Primarily women owned businesses happen to be more successful then primarily male owned. This is all very Ot, though.. and yes men and women can both be in capable or superior, its all individualistic.

Could you please provide statistics from a peer-reviewed journal?

I can, but thats it. I am not debating this here. You can start a new thread in Society if you want:

http://www.womensbusinessresearch.org/mediacenter/nationalstatetrends/50more.htm (this site shows the CDCs surveillance)

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Theres no such thing as evolution, and this is not the forum for this.

Than don't make that statement. If you aren't willing to back it up, don't make it.

Ok, you want to ay that if humans all killed themselves off, that it would BE evolution, but thats just not true, because it would forcibly end the evolution of a species that was otherwise well off.

No, it would be natural selection. Whatever means was used to terminate humanity, man as a species would be unable to adapt to it, obviously.[/quote]

Thats not how natural selection works, and if you want to discuss this further, you can start a thread in Evolution vs Intelligent Design

Quote: Quote:

So youre an anarchist?

In a sense. More libertarian, however.

Libertarians like some order, too. Im a Libertarian, but a constitutionalist, also.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: No we dont "GET" rights, we inherit them. You obviously have no clue what inalienable rights mean. If you want to think we are "privilaged" to rights, then you are SOOOOO wrong, and need to take a few courses on law and the Constitution. The Constitution did not "GIVE" us any rights, it ENSURED them. It ENSURED us the right to life. It wrote down the very rights that nobody should ever have taken away from them without due process. Thats how the law works. Your way "dictates" or "privilages" rights to people, as if its entirely up to the law to say what our rights are. Sorry, but thats just not how it works.

Please. We obviously view the concept of order differently. No harm done. I doubt it would influence the main topic too much.

Mr U
Great. I guess youre done debating this then?

Not if you actually have arguments why abortion should be stopped..

Mr U

Ok so youve been ignoring all my other posts? Welcome to PCF... please see the sticky.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: Libertarians like some order, too. Im a Libertarian, but a constitutionalist, also.

But before, when you took a test and it said you were a libertarian, you said it was bogus because you weren’t a libertarian. What gives? :?

HomoUniversalis · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject:

Sailor Moon wrote: HomoUniversalis wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: HomoUniversalis wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: I dont believe that, personally, but I can see where you are coming from in this regard- just remember its the fewest of feminists that proscribe to this agenda, not all of them. And also, there seem to be a great many things that women happen to be much better at than men, in business, and in investing, even, that we deserve to get recognition for.

I disagree, I believe women are just as incapable of doing good work as men.

Primarily women owned businesses happen to be more successful then primarily male owned. This is all very Ot, though.. and yes men and women can both be in capable or superior, its all individualistic.

Could you please provide statistics from a peer-reviewed journal?

I can, but thats it. I am not debating this here. You can start a new thread in Society if you want:

http://www.womensbusinessresearch.org/mediacenter/nationalstatetrends/50more.htm (this site shows the CDCs surveillance)

That's not a peer-reviewed journal. Do not make a statement if you can not or will not back it up..

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Theres no such thing as evolution, and this is not the forum for this.

Than don't make that statement. If you aren't willing to back it up, don't make it.

Ok, you want to ay that if humans all killed themselves off, that it would BE evolution, but thats just not true, because it would forcibly end the evolution of a species that was otherwise well off.

No, it would be natural selection. Whatever means was used to terminate humanity, man as a species would be unable to adapt to it, obviously.

Thats not how natural selection works, and if you want to discuss this further, you can start a thread in Evolution vs Intelligent Design[/quote]

Yes it is. If you claim me wrong, supply arguments. Don't tell me to discuss it elsewhere. Either discuss, or shut up about it. Don't say "You are wrong, discuss it there."

Quote: Quote: Quote: So youre an anarchist?

In a sense. More libertarian, however.

Libertarians like some order, too. Im a Libertarian, but a constitutionalist, also.

No, that's not part of the definition of libertarianism. Go discuss it in another section (nice, huh, if someone 'debates' like that?).

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: No we dont "GET" rights, we inherit them. You obviously have no clue what inalienable rights mean. If you want to think we are "privilaged" to rights, then you are SOOOOO wrong, and need to take a few courses on law and the Constitution. The Constitution did not "GIVE" us any rights, it ENSURED them. It ENSURED us the right to life. It wrote down the very rights that nobody should ever have taken away from them without due process. Thats how the law works. Your way "dictates" or "privilages" rights to people, as if its entirely up to the law to say what our rights are. Sorry, but thats just not how it works.

Please. We obviously view the concept of order differently. No harm done. I doubt it would influence the main topic too much.

Mr U
Great. I guess youre done debating this then?

Not if you actually have arguments why abortion should be stopped..

Mr U

Ok so youve been ignoring all my other posts? Welcome to PCF... please see the sticky.

I addressed them. They were all appeals to emotions and unbased moral evaluations.

Mr U

SpellJammer · Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 84

She probably has some libertarian qualities but is not libertarian as the current party presents itself..

All SpellJammer knows is he'd vote for Sailor Moon. :wink:

Sailor Moon · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2782 Location: O-town, Florida

Do you think the CDC has spies all over, in every institution? No of course they dont! They get their information FROM various sources, though.

Furthermore, I understand the values of Libertarianism, but I dont agree with all of them, because I uphold the right to life, and certain other rights that Libertarians refuse to accept, therefore I am a bit of a mixed BREED... I believe in natural rights, and I believe the original Constitution did an excellent job of protecting those rights. Therefore, I support liberty AND equal rights for ALL, not just the selfish ones.

We arent going to continue this. Sorry. If you want to discuss political parties, you can go to another forum to do so. If you want to discuss evolutional theory, you can go elsewhere. You want to discuss the battle of the sexes, go to Society. This is the abortion forum, in case you hadnt noticed. :-)