Political Crossfire Forums

[Luigidel]

It seems today that all you hear about is the fight about gay marriage. Don't get me wrong, i have no problem with gays at all, what they do behnd closed doors is their own business, not for me to interfere with. I don not, however, support gay marriage. Back to my point, I am trying to figure out why everyonme is so wrapped up in the gay marriage issue, when the real issue should be wy is there no legislation preventing gay and lesbian couples from adopting kids. I feel that this is an issue that needs immediate legislation. Why should a child have to suffer being raised in a household with 2 same sex parents. Beside the fact that the childhood experience is completely unnatural and probably not completely healthy, why should a child have to deal with the humilation of all the tormentation that is sure to be experienced by peers?

[halcyon~sky]

Gay people can physically have a sort of sexual intercourse, and they can love eachother, but nature PROHIBITS them from having kids. If nature says they can't, who are we to say they can.

If a kid grows up in a straight home that is unbiassed towards gay, and he/she still decides to be gay, then that's his/her choice. But look at how biassed an environment a kid would be in if he/she was living with gays.

[Demonic Spoon]

...That's like saying living with straight parents is "Biased" towards being straight.
Quote:
Gay people can physically have a sort of sexual intercourse, and they can love eachother, but nature PROHIBITS them from having kids. If nature says they can't, who are we to say they can.


Okay. And if you get cancer, can we just let you die, because, after all "If nature says you must die, who are we to say you can't?"

[halcyon~sky]

It isn't PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE for a GAY PERSON to CONCEIVE WITH another GAY PERSON.

It IS PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE to SAVE THE LIFE OF A CANCER PATIENT.

Geez.

[Eichen]

halcyon~sky wrote: Gay people can physically have a sort of sexual intercourse, and they can love eachother, but nature PROHIBITS them from having kids. If nature says they can't, who are we to say they can.
I say we pass laws then, to assure that infertile couples cannot adopt unwanted children! Nature has prohibit these barren creatures from having kids, why should we allow it, either?

And while we're at it, interracial couples shouldn't be allowed to have any children, either. Society doesn't always look kindly upon that sort of thing. Think about what that child will have to go through in life!
I guess that constitutes an "unhealthy environment", too.

And single parenthood? Who would allow that type of monstrosity to occuyr? The natural, healthy environment inarguably consists of two parents, not one.
Take the child away from his or her single paent immediately in any case. Including death of a spouse, or divorce. Especially divorce. Think of that unhealthy environment! Think of the children, damnit!

Upon final consideration, maybe only upper class, happily married white folks should be "allowed" to raise children. That oughtta fix the problem.

[liford]

Do you really think gays could do any worse than most of the hetero parents? It would be just like that show "My Two Dads." The only difference is that a REAL gay couple wouldn't be that gay. Take THAT Paul Reiser.

[Demonic Spoon]

halcyon~sky wrote: It isn't PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE for a GAY PERSON to CONCEIVE WITH another GAY PERSON.

It IS PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE to SAVE THE LIFE OF A CANCER PATIENT.

Geez.

So we should outlaw adoption for sterile people?

[halcyon~sky]

Quote: I say we pass laws then, to assure that infertile couples cannot adopt unwanted children! Nature has prohibit these barren creatures from having kids, why should we allow it, either?

And while we're at it, interracial couples shouldn't be allowed to have any children, either. Society doesn't always look kindly upon that sort of thing. Think about what that child will have to go through in life!
I guess that constitutes an "unhealthy environment", too.

And single parenthood? Who would allow that type of monstrosity to occuyr? The natural, healthy environment inarguably consists of two parents, not one.
Take the child away from his or her single paent immediately in any case. Including death of a spouse, or divorce. Especially divorce. Think of that unhealthy environment! Think of the children, damnit!

Upon final consideration, maybe only upper class, happily married white folks should be "allowed" to raise children. That oughtta fix the problem.


Dude Rob my girlfriend is black lol. Barren couples may not possess the ability to have kids, but at least they have the right parts.

You know I'm pro gay bro, but we gotta draw the line somewhere on everything (I know, I know. You're a libertarian.)

[Eichen]

liford wrote: Do you really think gays could do any worse than most of the hetero parents? It would be just like that show "My Two Dads." The only difference is that a REAL gay couple wouldn't be that gay. Take THAT Paul Reiser.
For real. Have you tried to talk to the self-obsessed, decadent, stupid pieces of trash most of these dysfunctional heteronormative households are pumping out by the tuckloads today?

Again, someone is assuming things they can't back up. How many broken "gay" homes have a\your friends come from? How many from broken "square" homes? If you don't know anyone (or just "that one kid"), frankly, you're talking out of your ass. Link to statistical data on the "unhealthy environment" of gay families raising children, please?
Didn't think so. So you've just assumed.

The sexuality of the parent's involved doesn't mean squat. Wanna know what does show statistical results, again and again?
Economic status. If you're so hot and turned on by the thought of authoritarian government telling families what they can do, why not allow breeding only within the upper classes. At least that might make a tiny, teeny, little bit of sense... if only in an ignorant, fu!!ed up way.

[halcyon~sky]

I fu$king hate arguing when I think I'm right and the person I'm arguing with is right.

Damnit.

[Eichen]

halcyon~sky wrote: Dude Rob my girlfriend is black lol. Barren couples may not possess the ability to have kids, but at least they have the right parts.

You know I'm pro gay bro, but we gotta draw the line somewhere on everything (I know, I know. You're a libertarian.)
I know, man. What it comes down to is this-- Who the hell are a bunch of bureaucrats in Wahington to tell a family whether or not they can have children, anyways?

That's preposterous, and fasicst. It's none of their goddamned business.
If anyone came to take that couple's baby, I'd applaude their actions if they went apesh!t and started blowing them away. Hell, I know I would if it were me.Who wouldn't?
You see, you can't just make laws and expect people to click their heels and goose-step. Someone has to enforce those laws. And would that do more harm than good, in this situation?

[Eichen]

halcyon~sky wrote: I fu$king hate arguing when I think I'm right and the person I'm arguing with is right.

Damnit.
Sorry Cal if I seem a bit steamed about this issue, but two of my best friends (who happen to be lesbians) have a little boy. They really should give a lot of ho-hum hetero couples lessons in parenting.
They're the most devoted parents I've ever known, and their child is very healthy and happy, too.

It just sounds so arrogant to me to hear people assume that one particular genital configuration somehow produces better results. For example, I was raised by my Grandmother. I'm relatively successful, happy and healthy. I have friends who were raised by two married parents who aren't.
I don't believe in the penultimate, superior family model. I think one might make things a bit easier, but in the long run, that doesn't always mean better.

PS-- We should talk soon this week. :)

[halcyon~sky]

I'll give you a call sometime this week, but unfortunately, I don't really have good news on the computer guys.

[Luigidel]

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/dennisprager/2004/05/04/11576.html a very good article
http://www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/lawreview/articles/14_2Schowengerdt.PDF page 20 on deals wioth effects on children
http://www.ctfamily.org/editorial10.html
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/samesexparenting.htm

Here's a few sources to contradict the absurdity of a statement that same-sex parenting does not negatively affect children...enjoy.

[Kt]

halcyon~sky wrote: It isn't PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE for a GAY PERSON to CONCEIVE WITH another GAY PERSON.


So a Gay man and a Gay woman can't have babies now?

[halcyon~sky]

Any man and any woman can have a baby together unless they are sterile. I'm saying a man can't conceive with a man. Don't be stupid for the sake of argument.

[Crimson Shrew]

I have friends and relatives who are gay, however, that doesn't mean i condone their actions or lifestyle choices. I think it's un natural and just not right. But I'm not going to disown them or stop being friends with them because of it - what any other person does behind closed doors with people other than myself is their business, not mine.

On the issue of gays adopting - i don't think it should be allowed, but it would be extremely hard to "prove". Living with someone of the same sex does not make you gay. But i do know it's not normal nor is it healthy to raise a child in an gay couple environment. You can't possibly say you're gay and that your dream is to have children of your own, because that's a contradiction. It's like saying you want to be free in China.

However, i have conflidting opinions in my own mind. I support fully the rights of business owners to decide how they will run their business. Smoking bans, etc I feel are unconsitutional and step very far in the wrong direction, and completely against the spirit of this great nation. If i take that same thinking and apply it to the business of adoption (which, i will admit, i am not familiar with), i get the thought that maybe that decision is best left up to the owner/manager of the adoption service. If adoption services were government run, however, it would be a different story. In THAT case, i don't think that adoption for gay couples should be an option. We have enough very, very strange and frightening people around as it is, and what we DON'T need is another insecure, psychotic adult around, waiting to shoot someone, because of the things they went through as a child being raised by a gay couple.

I realize that heterosexual relationships can also go wrong and leave children scarred for life. That's not the issue here. Being a child of heterosexual parents in itself does not make you a target of ridicule for your peers. It does not leave you with twisted ideas of marriage, and is likely to leave you as homosexual as your parents, simply because that's the only thing you've ever been taught.

In many ways, gay couples wanting to adopt is a very, very selfish thing to do. In a society that screams "ME! ME! ME FIRST!", no one seems to think about the person who's giving up what you take for granted. A child's sanity and young memories are NOT something that should be toyed with or taken lightly.

Gay marriage is a very slippery slope. Allowing it opens the door for marrying in big groups, which is a problem. That further "progresses" the "tolerance" to different "ideas" about marriage, leaving open marrying animals, items, and.... ideas.

[Kt]

halcyon~sky wrote: Any man and any woman can have a baby together unless they are sterile. I'm saying a man can't conceive with a man. Don't be stupid for the sake of argument.
When you stop posting stupidity i'll stop replying with stupidity.

[Crimson Shrew]

Shim Eun-Ha wrote: halcyon~sky wrote: It isn't PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE for a GAY PERSON to CONCEIVE WITH another GAY PERSON.


So a Gay man and a Gay woman can't have babies now?

Here we have another problem - ethics. I see very few people who feel that cheating on a spouse is morally acceptable.

however, when it comes to gay relationships, nobody can seem to see a problem with couples doing what she mentions here.

Besides, wouldn't that act in itself be repulsive to someone who is TRULY homosexual, in the same way homosexual activies are repulsive to a heterosexual person? Wouldn't that go against the principals of these people?

Lets not even get into custody issues.

[Kt]

Crimson Shrew wrote: Shim Eun-Ha wrote: halcyon~sky wrote: It isn't PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE for a GAY PERSON to CONCEIVE WITH another GAY PERSON.


So a Gay man and a Gay woman can't have babies now?

Here we have another problem - ethics. I see very few people who feel that cheating on a spouse is morally acceptable.

YOU hear words i never said and it is a testament to just how homophobic you truly are, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

I said NOTHING about cheating, it's called surrogate parenthood, also practiced by many sterile heterosexual couples, and jesus-people.

Crawl out from under that rock of black and whites, kay?

Quote:
Besides, wouldn't that act in itself be repulsive to someone who is TRULY homosexual, in the same way homosexual activies are repulsive to a heterosexual person? Wouldn't that go against the principals of these people?

Notice i said "making babies" not "making out and f***ing eachother. Although that is not out of the question, it is not required to get semen from the man to the woman can be done through alternative means.

And many gay people have pretended to be straight while in the closet before. Especially the older ones.

Quote: Lets not even get into custody issues.
Let's, it's no big deal.