Political Crossfire Forums

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

The truth of the matter can be found here, for those that are interested.

http://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?query=ge+18&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5537 Location: Dreamland, NC

Quote: first of all, I'm glad that you go directly to God to ask for forgivness, which might be the contrary to what catholics do...

There has been much misconception about this. Catholics are forgiven as soon as they ask God for forgiveness. But Catholics are also well aware that their repenting does not truly become real to the average joe until it is told to another person. When a priest listens to confession who assumes the role of "persona cristo" which means that he is supposed to act like Christ in order to comfort the individual. It can really be a rewarding a experience to the individual who confesses their sins. The sacrament of reconciliation is done mainly for the individual more than anything else.

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: so one of the most important ideas behind christianity were collectively made up by humans..no by Jesus himself

They are based on the Gospels, which contain the words of our Savior.

Perhaps you might think these have been altered but the evidence does not indicate this, in fact it indicates the opposite.

Perhaps some people would like to look into this matter objectively and decide for themselves what the truth is.

and the Gospel came to existense when? surely not before the departure o Jesus

and whatever you think the evidense is... it has been altered ...all you have to do is look into that evidence

your last comment puzzeled me... is accepting whatever is told to you without thinking being objective?

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: even the angels when they visited Abraham to tell him that they were gonna to destory and kill the people of Sodom and Gamorrah, and looked and were in human form..when Abraham presented them with food , they did not et and then told him the truth behind their visit...

They did eat.

Surely you realize that the generous hospitality tradition of three measures of fine flour in the Middle East comes from the fact that this is what Abraham offered to the TWO angels and their companion.

I'll leave it to you to figure out who their companion is.

no they did not

he presented his quest with a barbequed calf

appearntly we are not gonna agree on this since you would not trust the Quran and I would not trust the bible... each for his own set of reasons..no matter how valid those reasons are

and i dont recall learning about a certain companion other than the angels....i expect that we will have a disagreement on that too

peace

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Glorfindel wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: so one of the most important ideas behind christianity were collectively made up by humans..no by Jesus himself

They are based on the Gospels, which contain the words of our Savior.

Perhaps you might think these have been altered but the evidence does not indicate this, in fact it indicates the opposite.

Perhaps some people would like to look into this matter objectively and decide for themselves what the truth is.

and the Gospel came to existense when? surely not before the departure o Jesus

and whatever you think the evidense is... it has been altered ...all you have to do is look into that evidence

your last comment puzzeled me... is accepting whatever is told to you without thinking being objective?

I've spent the last two years researching the authenticity of scripture. I'm sure I can shred any claim.

Do you have one that you would like to try? Every time I ask this of a Muslim I get the run around. I don't think any of you are all that familiar with your own scriptures origins or contents to be making such claims.

Quote: your last comment puzzeled me... is accepting whatever is told to you without thinking being objective?

Coming from someone who believes they are going to a debauchery when they die, this is a humorous statement.

The fact is, you guys don't follow scripture, but a commentary on scripture that is very primitive.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

politicalmojo wrote: Quote: first of all, I'm glad that you go directly to God to ask for forgivness, which might be the contrary to what catholics do...

There has been much misconception about this. Catholics are forgiven as soon as they ask God for forgiveness. But Catholics are also well aware that their repenting does not truly become real to the average joe until it is told to another person. When a priest listens to confession who assumes the role of "persona cristo" which means that he is supposed to act like Christ in order to comfort the individual. It can really be a rewarding a experience to the individual who confesses their sins. The sacrament of reconciliation is done mainly for the individual more than anything else.

I hope you guys don't mind me asking, but why does someone have to go to a priest in order to ask for forgiveness? Can't he just pray to God for forgiveness? :-|

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Personally I don't believe that to be true. It says nothing of this in scripture.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

cap'n queasy wrote: Personally I don't believe that to be true. It says nothing of this in scripture.

About forgiveness from God?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Saracen wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Personally I don't believe that to be true. It says nothing of this in scripture.

About forgiveness from God?

You're being purposefully obtuse, Moath.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

cap'n queasy wrote: Saracen wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Personally I don't believe that to be true. It says nothing of this in scripture.

About forgiveness from God?

You're being purposefully obtuse, Moath.

No, I am not. I was asking about how one repents for his sins. The idea of going to a pastor for a confession strikes me as... well... indirect. :-|

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: No, I am not. I was asking about how one repents for his sins. The idea of going to a pastor for a confession strikes me as... well... indirect.

If you recall, you said something about not agreeing that confessing to a cleric is necessary. I clearly replied that confessing your sins to a cleric is something that is not mentioned as being necessary in the Scriptures. You then made a disconnected remark that implied I said forgiveness in general is not necessary. When I remarked on this, you then repeated the first point.

Do you now see how your questions are obtuse?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Look in your heart. :-D

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

Thanks for clearing it up.

Salaam. :)

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5537 Location: Dreamland, NC

Saracen wrote: politicalmojo wrote: Quote: first of all, I'm glad that you go directly to God to ask for forgivness, which might be the contrary to what catholics do...

There has been much misconception about this. Catholics are forgiven as soon as they ask God for forgiveness. But Catholics are also well aware that their repenting does not truly become real to the average joe until it is told to another person. When a priest listens to confession who assumes the role of "persona cristo" which means that he is supposed to act like Christ in order to comfort the individual. It can really be a rewarding a experience to the individual who confesses their sins. The sacrament of reconciliation is done mainly for the individual more than anything else.

I hope you guys don't mind me asking, but why does someone have to go to a priest in order to ask for forgiveness? Can't he just pray to God for forgiveness? :-|

We are forgiven the moment we ask for God's forgiveness. But confession has many reasons. One of which is the personal satisfaction of the person confessing. It feels extremely good to tell your sins to another human being. It also in the process makes them less likely to not commit the sin again. Of all the sacraments reconciliation is my second favorite, next to the Eucharist.

Just in case you didn't know priests are not supposed to tell anything that happened in confession.

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

cap'n queasy wrote: Glorfindel wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: so one of the most important ideas behind christianity were collectively made up by humans..no by Jesus himself

They are based on the Gospels, which contain the words of our Savior.

Perhaps you might think these have been altered but the evidence does not indicate this, in fact it indicates the opposite.

Perhaps some people would like to look into this matter objectively and decide for themselves what the truth is.

and the Gospel came to existense when? surely not before the departure o Jesus

and whatever you think the evidense is... it has been altered ...all you have to do is look into that evidence

your last comment puzzeled me... is accepting whatever is told to you without thinking being objective?

I've spent the last two years researching the authenticity of scripture. I'm sure I can shred any claim.

Do you have one that you would like to try? Every time I ask this of a Muslim I get the run around. I don't think any of you are all that familiar with your own scriptures origins or contents to be making such claims.

Quote: your last comment puzzeled me... is accepting whatever is told to you without thinking being objective?

Coming from someone who believes they are going to a debauchery when they die, this is a humorous statement.

The fact is, you guys don't follow scripture, but a commentary on scripture that is very primitive.

you might be able tou shred any claim about the authenticity of any scripture ... that is found in the old or new testament ...but in the Quran, well you have not even read the book to be able to judge it

second thing, I don't know who you asked about Islam but if you want you can ask me and i promise you i'll answer it and if i don't know the nswer i'll ask someone who knows more than me... I dont have a problem admitting that I don't know everything

not all muslims are Imams,,, even though they should have been... so pardon them if they fail to answer you...

anyway, you can ask me whatever you want to know and i'll go nd ask if i dont have the answer or not sure of it... how about that?

about your little joke there.. well.. I can make fun too ..but I'd rather not for two reasons.. first I respect christianity regardless to what I think of its beliefs or teachings and second because as a muslim I am ordered not to make fun of other people's beliefs and religions... I can only hope that others would do the same to me

we follow the Quran exactly and literally.. you are the one who needs interpretations and translation because you dont speak Arabic ..bear in mind the english copy of Quran you have there is not the Quran... it is just the translation of it... and translator can make mistakes.. to see an example of such mistakes check that thread that asks why muslims can not be friends with christians and jews...

peace

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

politicalmojo wrote: We are forgiven the moment we ask for God's forgiveness. But confession has many reasons. One of which is the personal satisfaction of the person confessing. It feels extremely good to tell your sins to another human being. It also in the process makes them less likely to not commit the sin again. Of all the sacraments reconciliation is my second favorite, next to the Eucharist.

Just in case you didn't know priests are not supposed to tell anything that happened in confession.

Makes sense, though I'd rather ask myself what I did wrong and try to correct it.

P.S. The discussion we're having right now is much better than the one we are having in PandG: at least we're trying to understand each other instead of accuse each other of things we're not.

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5537 Location: Dreamland, NC

Saracen wrote: politicalmojo wrote: We are forgiven the moment we ask for God's forgiveness. But confession has many reasons. One of which is the personal satisfaction of the person confessing. It feels extremely good to tell your sins to another human being. It also in the process makes them less likely to not commit the sin again. Of all the sacraments reconciliation is my second favorite, next to the Eucharist.

Just in case you didn't know priests are not supposed to tell anything that happened in confession.

Makes sense, though I'd rather ask myself what I did wrong and try to correct it.

P.S. The discussion we're having right now is much better than the one we are having in PandG: at least we're trying to understand each other instead of accuse each other of things we're not.

If I ever came out harsh against you personally, I apologize. I understand you personally try to fight these radicals within your religion and I applaud that. Most people are generally good its just I have a serious problem with those radicals calling for people to be killed in the name of religion.

But don't think I'm going to go soft on the issue either. :wink:

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16428 Location: On Earth

politicalmojo wrote: If I ever came out harsh against you personally, I apologize. I understand you personally try to fight these radicals within your religion and I applaud that. Most people are generally good its just I have a serious problem with those radicals calling for people to be killed in the name of religion.

Apologies accepted.

Quote: But don't think I'm going to go soft on the issue either.

I wasn't counting on it. :wink: