Political Crossfire Forums

[SCC]

Hopefully you guys will do a better job than the Conspiracy Forum people. Who do you think killed John Fitzgerald Kennedy? Was there a conspiracy and was Lee Harvey merely a patsy? Discuss if you'd like.

Just a few elaborations: The Warren Commission was appointed by JFK's successor, Lyndon Johnson to investigate this. They came up with absurd theories which the autopsy results did not support: Single Bullet Theory.
OSwald was supposedly a lone gunman according to it.

Conspiracy Theories: Mafia, Military, CIA, and autopsy theory(David Lifton).

[David]

Years ago I read the book "Best Evidence" and though the author didn't draw any conclusions as to who he did prove beyond doubt that Oswald could not have done it alone and that their was too much evidence tampering for it to not have been a conspiracy.

[SCC]

David wrote: Years ago I read the book "Best Evidence" and though the author didn't draw any conclusions as to who he did prove beyond doubt that Oswald could not have done it alone and that their was too much evidence tampering for it to not have been a conspiracy.

Yeah, bright guy. Did you know he was the first to compare the medical reports from teh Dallas hospital with the autopsy report from Betehsda hospital? He did it for a UCLA medical project too. What I found most convincing were the testimonies of the autopsy attendents at Bethesda Hostpital in Washington who said that Kennedy's brain was missing from his cadaver when he arrived in Washington and that the bullet hole on his skull was four times larger than it had originally been. So, the nature of his wound was COMPLETELY altered and the path of the bullet obscured. I'm normally not a conspiracy driven person, but Lifton's theory was sufficiently convincing to sway me.

Also, the lastest theory is even more inconceivable. It asserts that Kennedy's own bodyguards whot him by ACCIDENT and that Oswald's target was actually Connally as he hated Connally so much. The guy who devised this theory actually was an expert on guns and ballistisc and he devised this after a simultaion, in collaboration with LIFE magazine, of how the actual assissination took place. What puzzled him was why Oswald, if he was the actual assassin, would shoot Kennedy while Kennedy's car was driving away from the Texas School Book Depository; it would have been a lot more pragmatic to hide somewhere in the grassy knoll and await the target.

Anyway, I'm personally stumped by this enigma. Personally, I lean towards the Mafia Theory because of Jack Ruby and Robert Kennedy's assassination and Judith Campbell, but still...must keep an open mind.

[CaptainDankNuggets]

Lee Harvey Oswald its totally obvious

[Nnamath]

Oliver Stone

[KG]

You dissapoint me. I can't believe people still buy into this conspiracy. Face the facts Oswald killed Kenedy.

Proof that Oswald was the lone gunman

Edit: Yeah that always get 'em.

[TheWeeklyDebacle]

KG wrote: You dissapoint me. I can't believe people still buy into this conspiracy. Face the facts Oswald killed Kenedy.

Proof that Oswald was the lone gunman

Edit: Yeah that always get 'em.

Whether you believe it or not there is a reason why the government will not release several documents relating to the assassination until 2029 (National Security issues are nonexistent concerning this). I have read material on the website you've linked to many times and I have a few things to say about that. Not even Jim Garrison doubts that the magic bullet theory is a physical possibility. However, that theory does not explain a multitude of strange things, such as why several assassination witnesses died of mysterious causes after the assassination, many of whom had stated that they had heard shots fired from the grassy knoll (there is no proof that those were simply echoes), why the presidential route was changed under such short notice, why the secret service mysteriously allowed the window of the 6th floor of the book depository building to be open while the president drove by.

What does "face the facts" mean? Who do you think you are? As much as you might like to think you know what happened, none of us knows. We are in the dark. It is possible that these conspiracy theories are true just as it is possible that Oswald fired a crack shot that hit killed Kennedy and wounded Connelly.

About Oliver Stone and the website you provided a link to. You say you can't believe "people still buy into this conspiracy" and I can't believe that people still think "JFK," a masterpiece of cinema, is propaganda that is full of lies. Oliver Stone is a film director, not a historian, not a journalist, a FILM DIRECTOR, and a great one at that. His film is not truth, but rather about the search for it. It is about ideas. One of its major themes is the fact that the government was not honest with US citizens with regard to the assassination. Apart from being a marvel to look at, it makes you think, something the Warren Commission seems to have never wanted the American people to do.

[FCTE]

Oswald could have pulled it off. To prove it they made a sim game for it so you could do it yourself.

JFK Reloaded

[station agent]

I just finished the book Ultimate Sacrifice, which nails it pretty good in my opinion.

They say that the Kennedys had a plan for a second Cuba invasion, this one was much more secretive than the Bay of Pigs and it backfired because the Mafia found out they would be shut out of liberated Cuba.

The book does a better job of explaining the cover up. They have strong evidence that John and Bobby Kennedy were afraid that the Soviets might start a nuclear war if the plot was ever exposed. So they planned to cover up any and all events that would expose the plot. One of the events that had a cover up contingency plan was the assassination of a US official. In the models they suggested it might be the Ambassador to Panama.

When the mob Killed Kennedy the cover up was triggered. RFK went with it to keep the story from leading back to C-Day.

Although it's pretty clear it was the mob. They had so many ties to Oswald and Ruby and had taken so much heat from the Kennedys. All three of the bosses involved--Roselli, Marcello and Traficante all claimed responsibility.

Two other assassination attempts, one in Chicago and one in Tampa had already failed before Kennedy went to Dallas.

Another good point the book makes is what a big deal over throwing Castro was for JFK. He pounded Nixon for being part of the administration that allowed Cuba to go Communist. If Kennedy could reverse that, he could cruise to re-election.

[FCTE]

If you read Kruschev's memoirs they state that Bobby Kennedy went to negotiate with him about nuclear arms. Kruschev stated that Bobby Kennedy told him that the Department of Defense wanted to overthrow JFK for not acting and destroy Cuba with Peacekeepers. That would in turn cause the soviets to launch and a nuclear holocaust would have ensued. Bobby had him disarm Cuba peacefully through talks supposedly so it never happened.

[De0xide]

It all depends on what you think of the situation. Oswald in my mind. There is just something odd about how a man who was not trained to use the rifle used could whip off 3 shots in what? 3 seconds?

[Dr. Righteous]

There is a significant amount of evidence swinging both ways.

The conspirists are wrong when they discuss the magic bullet/second shot and the seating of Kennedy and Connally. They draw the diagram as if Kennedy is sitting directly behind Connally and at the same elevation. However, when you look at the Lincoln they were in, you can see that Kennedy was more towards the outside of the car and Connally's bucket seat was much closer to the ground.

In the Zapruder film, on the second shot, if you pause it on a specific frame (I forget which one), you can see Connally and Kennedy reacting to being shot at the exact same moment. Obviously the shot came from behind because it hit Kennedy and angled down into Connally. I don't find 7 wounds to be unbelievable with one shot, nor do I find the rapid change of angle unbelievable either. When you think about it, a bullet traveling that fast would have a rapid change in direction if it hit something and went through it, especially bone. Some point to a grassy knoll shooter causing the rest of the wounds. The Zapruder film was shot at 18.3 fps, so one frame of video is equal to roughly 0.055 seconds. I don't care how professional a hitman is, two hitmen are never going to be able to coordinate a shot within 0.055 seconds or less. It's just not humanly possible.

On the third shot, Kennedy's head is blown backwards from force, indicating he was shot in the front of the head. However, the exit wound from the rifle was on the front of his head, indicating he was shot from the back of the head. I think the latter is more likely to be true since a body can really go in any direction when its shot. Zapruder claimed he saw what was in the video, which means it has not been tampered with. However, the autopsy photos show something different. The back of Kennedy's head is blown out, even though in the Zapruder film, clearly the front of JFK's head was blown out. Which one is it? What's going on?

All of the witnesses have proven themselves uncredible because they have changed their stories significantly since it happened. This has puzzled me for so long becuase you can't just look at the Zapruder film for answers. I personally believe there was an attempted cover-up, but not to the extent it has been made out to be.

[Dr. Righteous]

De0xide wrote: It all depends on what you think of the situation. Oswald in my mind. There is just something odd about how a man who was not trained to use the rifle used could whip off 3 shots in what? 3 seconds?

But the time was much longer, it was closer to 8 seconds. Oswald actually had military training I believe and could definately pull the shots off in the amount of time he had. His marksman skills were shown to have been excellent (48/50 shots). I have actually seen a video where a guy uses the same gun Oswald was using and pulls off the shots even quicker.

[Il Principe]

The milirary-industrial complex and others that would lose out if Kennedy pulled out of Vietnam, the Kennedy entry wouldn, who then made the hit is less important - slip iOswald in there - bait and switch, simple.

[Dr. Righteous]

I bet the mafia was behind it for the Kennedy's declaration on organized crime. What's the number one rule of the mafia? Kill the killer. Jack Ruby was the mafia's man to take out Oswald so he wouldn't talk.

The autopsy photos are really the only strong evidence against the single shooter theory.

[Il Principe]

Dr. Righteous wrote: I bet the mafia was behind it for the Kennedy's declaration on organized crime. What's the number one rule of the mafia? Kill the killer. Jack Ruby was the mafia's man to take out Oswald so he wouldn't talk.

The autopsy photos are really the only strong evidence against the single shooter theory.

Do you really think the government would hesitate to blame the mafia for the assasination if it were true? If it was the mafia it would almost be a double benefit for the government.

[Dr. Righteous]

Il Principe wrote: Dr. Righteous wrote: I bet the mafia was behind it for the Kennedy's declaration on organized crime. What's the number one rule of the mafia? Kill the killer. Jack Ruby was the mafia's man to take out Oswald so he wouldn't talk.

The autopsy photos are really the only strong evidence against the single shooter theory.

Do you really think the government would hesitate to blame the mafia for the assasination if it were true? If it was the mafia it would almost be a double benefit for the government.

They couldn't. They got little information from Oswald and Ruby wouldn't talk. The evidence against the mafia is speculation at best and they can't prove anything.

[GTTofAK]

While I think that Oswald was anythign but a patsy. For chrst sakes the man was a sharpshooter in the core. I dont care how fast Kevin Costner can chamber a new round. He was so damn slow it was like watching paint dry. Could there have been others? Most certianly. Was Oswald a shooter? Yes.

That being said why was it done?

Something most people don't realize is that Kennedy was in no condition to be president. By the end of his presidency he was hopelessly addicted to pain-killers and amphetamines thanks to Dr. Feelgood a.k.a. Max Jacobson. If you have seen pictures of Kennedy at this time he looked like death warmed over. How this was effecting his leadership behind the scenes we will never truly know. But by many accounts Bobby was really president by this time.

So I ask you. If the king is mad is it wrong to kill the king?

[Canadian_Patriot]

I find it funny how Oswald was not entitled to legal representation and then he was shot by Jack Ruby who died at the same time Oswald did. I also find it strange he had signed an executive order that would have started reform on the U.S. economy.
That's what happens when you don't do what your told JFK in my opinion was the last President who wanted to represent the people and not big government and corperate interests. Robert Kennedy as well assasinated rumor has it that he was gonna have MLK as a running mate who was also assasinated.
I think he was whacked personally but i guess we will never know.

[mr crunchy]

oswalds uncle ran #s for carlo marcello,godfather of neworleans
jack ruby ran a bar in dallas for carlo marcello

bobby k had marcello deported to guatamala for a variety of reasons
marcello was a sicilian who claimed guatamalen citizenship because sicilians were being attacked in neworleans after the war of the oranges claimed the life of the new orleans chief of police in the early part of the 1900s
marcello swore revenge
marcello got it with the assist of the grassy knoll gunmen and some inside help from the cia