Political Crossfire Forums

[TwinkieDP]

The Artfool Dodger wrote: Danpt2000 wrote: The Artfool Dodger wrote: superchick wrote: I just find it very ridiculous the reaction of the US. You are spending way too much on your military...do as I say NOT as I do.

Yet, the Chinese spend a greater portion of their GDP on the military than does the United States. So, from a certain perspective, it is not that ridiuculous. How did you come by this claim??

Well, I could have been mistaken, or read bad information, however according to the CIA World Fact Book, the US spends a small percentage of its GDP on the military than does China. According to them, American expenditures comprise 3.30% of their GDP, while Chinese expenditures comprise 4.30% of their GDP.

Although, now that I take a closer look at it, the figures for both countries are about two years old, so perhaps I was mistaken.

The 4.3% figure was provided by the U.S. Department of Defence. The figure provided by SIPRI in the above links shows China expenditure to be 1.8% of total GDP.

[The Artfool Dodger]

Well then, I suppose there is only one thing to say at this point: I stand corrected. :koo:

[TwinkieDP]

The Artfool Dodger wrote: Well then, I suppose there is only one thing to say at this point: I stand corrected. :koo: I wouldn't say the DOD is totally wrong. However, it being part of a political entity is it any surprise if they inflate the military budget of foreign nations that might be viewed as a potential competitor? Although not all things posted on Wikipedia should be taken as gospel either, since pretty much anyone with sufficient knowledge and research can add/edit the articles on Wiki, I find myself more often than not using Wiki as a starting point in search of facts.

But the undisputed fact is, U.S. military spending Overshadows the spending of any other nation in the world. I don't have the figures, but the U.S. probably also maintains the largest Nuclear arsenal. How do you expect people to react when American politicians criticize foreign nations on their stockpile of WMDs, and military spending?

With the questionable invasion of Iraq, is it any surprise that Middle-Easterners are building up their own capabilities, or do you actually think they should let the U.S. protect them and decide everything for them? Including land disputes, oil field rights etc...etc.....?

[foadi]

Eynon81 wrote: If we're gonna fight, lets fight while the military gap is still large, if we're not gonna fight stop with the poking :-|
Eynon, I know you're not a fan of the CCP, but would you really not mind if the US went to war with China?

[XxMorningStarxX]

The Artfool Dodger wrote: Danpt2000 wrote: The Artfool Dodger wrote: superchick wrote: I just find it very ridiculous the reaction of the US. You are spending way too much on your military...do as I say NOT as I do.

Yet, the Chinese spend a greater portion of their GDP on the military than does the United States. So, from a certain perspective, it is not that ridiuculous. How did you come by this claim??

Well, I could have been mistaken, or read bad information, however according to the CIA World Fact Book, the US spends a small percentage of its GDP on the military than does China. According to them, American expenditures comprise 3.30% of their GDP, while Chinese expenditures comprise 4.30% of their GDP.

Although, now that I take a closer look at it, the figures for both countries are about two years old, so perhaps I was mistaken.

ACtually, that's true. The U.S. spends a much lower percentage of the national GDP than China.

And what's wrong wth the U.S. reaction?? It's perfectly understandable. The U.S. is a NATION, and YOU are an American.

China has a bad humanitarian track record. It also has a somewhat complicated relationship with the U.S. Of course the U.S. will fear China modernizing its military. What do you say then? Let the united states stand by and watch as China becomes the new world hegemon and with the U.S. as only coming in second? Then we would have no say whatsoever in what China does- because then they would OWN us, and you can just forget about the negotiating table. You as an American should be very concerned.

And plus, this is world politics for Christsake!!! China is not going to stand by some moral standard (it's also the only official atheist state in the world). We have a much better track record, we are more justified than the PRC, which means there IS and SHOULD be a double standard.

[XxMorningStarxX]

Danpt2000 wrote: The Artfool Dodger wrote: superchick wrote: I just find it very ridiculous the reaction of the US. You are spending way too much on your military...do as I say NOT as I do.

Yet, the Chinese spend a greater portion of their GDP on the military than does the United States. So, from a certain perspective, it is not that ridiuculous. How did you come by this claim??

It's true, its TRUE. Please read your stuff before you start debating for China on this forum... and please visit this site, it's actually Chinese, and if you don't want to hear it from an American, hear it from them...

www.sinodefence.com

[foadi]

XxMorningStarxX wrote:
And plus, this is world politics for Christsake!!! China is not going to stand by some moral standard (it's also the only official atheist state in the world). We have a much better track record, we are more justified than the PRC, which means there IS and SHOULD be a double standard.
I would prefer China as a superpower as opposed to the US any day of the week.

[XxMorningStarxX]

foadi wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote:
And plus, this is world politics for Christsake!!! China is not going to stand by some moral standard (it's also the only official atheist state in the world). We have a much better track record, we are more justified than the PRC, which means there IS and SHOULD be a double standard.
I would prefer China as a superpower as opposed to the US any day of the week.

Why? I'd like to know. List pros and cons of having China vs U.S.A. as hegemon. And please don't say its because you think American culture is degrading itself.

[foadi]

America has shown itself to be extremely aggressive in the international arena, attacking countries at will. Simply put, I have a hard time believing that China will adopt the same behavoir. China is known for using soft power against it's enemies, but other than that I think it would maintain a hand's off approach.

[XxMorningStarxX]

foadi wrote: America has shown itself to be extremely aggressive in the international arena, attacking countries at will. Simply put, I have a hard time believing that China will adopt the same behavoir. China is known for using soft power against it's enemies, but other than that I think it would maintain a hand's off approach.

China is only non-aggressive now because they know they cannot stand up to the U.S. and the E.U. should they ever do something aggressive. Chinese leaders may be paranoid but they're not blind. The U.S. was always just about well matched with the other superpowers throughout its history, which is what eboldens the United States to act. If you ever heard about China's "assassin's mace" strategy, you would kno- china plans a "peaceful rise," but how can you trust such a nation on the international scene when it faces so many internal political issues?

Yes, China has not been aggressive in the modern age either for the past 200 years, but thats because it's been exploited nonstop by foreign powers- foreign powers that have since moved to democracy and "peacekeeping" (say what you like, but overall it is still beneficial)But the fact is, China now has a paranoid communist government that has an awful human rights record.

[foadi]

China's internal problems are a good thing, in my view. A world power that is more interested in protecting power at home than projecting it abroad is exactly what the world needs right now. Like I said, I would like to see a country with a more hand's off policy dethrown the US. None of your arguments against China obtaining superpower status are at all convincing.

[Demonic Spoon]

Meh...I'd rather no superpowers exist at all. If there must, then there should at least be several great powers...

[XxMorningStarxX]

Demonic Spoon wrote: Meh...I'd rather no superpowers exist at all. If there must, then there should at least be several great powers...

lol, several great powers would just result in powers forming pacts with each other against one another, creating detente, or doing backdoor s**t like that. Things will always degrade into two basic camps. Unless politicians in general somehow miraculously become a lot less egotistical and narrow minded and become truly altruistic- like that's going to happen.

[XxMorningStarxX]

foadi wrote: China's internal problems are a good thing, in my view. A world power that is more interested in protecting power at home than projecting it abroad is exactly what the world needs right now. Like I said, I would like to see a country with a more hand's off policy dethrown the US. None of your arguments against China obtaining superpower status are at all convincing.

internal problems i.e. persecution of public religion, locking up of monks, creation of an officially atheistic state, limiting freedom of speech. Are you sure these are GOOD things?

[foadi]

meh

[TwinkieDP]

Danpt2000 wrote: Quote: The claim of the People's Republic of China that its defense spending is far lower than other major powers is correct, on the condition the official military budget number of the People's Republic of China is the real budget number. It has also been argued that the United States is also deliberately misleading on actual military expenditures, for example excluding Iraq and Afghanistan-related expenses from the official Department of Defense budget report. [1] This suspicion about the military expenditure of the United States is confirmed by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_military_budget

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WorldMilitarySpending.jpg

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Quote: According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2003 the United States spent approximately 47% of the world's total military spending of US$956,000,000,000.

Relative to the total GDP of the United States, however, the total spending on the military was only 3.7% in 2003. This spending rate has been in a slow decline since peaking in 1944 at 37.8% of GDP. Even during the peak of the Vietnam War the percentage reached only a high of 9.4% in 1968.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_in_the_United_States


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Look at the data in Tables provided by independent research institutes as well as U.S. DoD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_military_budget

Looking at data from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) , it looks like China's military expenditure trails the U.S. expenditure in absolute terms as well as relative terms.

Normally, the world should think it is good to have a strong Global Policeman, but what do you do when the Police abuses his power?

Please do some reading yourself before u start spouting claims MorningStar. I repeat this for you since you seem to ignore previous posts.

[Saracen]

Wow. That is some statistic. The US has seriously got to cut back on military spending..

[SCC]

foadi wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote:
And plus, this is world politics for Christsake!!! China is not going to stand by some moral standard (it's also the only official atheist state in the world). We have a much better track record, we are more justified than the PRC, which means there IS and SHOULD be a double standard.
I would prefer China as a superpower as opposed to the US any day of the week.

You are blinded by your hate of anything American. Read what xxxmorningstarxxxx or whatever wrote.

[Slayer]

Danpt2000 wrote: Slayer wrote: Danpt2000 wrote: Well, we can't be in the number one spot forever...
What a shi**y attitude you have. We as Americans must strive to have the strongest military, which is why we must not have a liberal in office!!!!!!! Ahh, the strongest military for what purpose? For defence? No, for the greater part of the 20th century America's military has been used for Power Projection. America has been the aggressor for numerous conflicts. When She is not being the aggressor She is playing the part of Global policeman behind the facade of the UN. Sometimes it is difficult of distinguish whether the U.S. is a Republic or an Empire. Besides the fact that overall American standard of living is one of the highest, many peoples around the world flock here also recognizing U.S. dominance in geopolitics. Don't get me wrong, America is a great place to live (except for the fact that we are all gouged by taxes), but don't blind yourself from the true nature of the beast we call America.

If we didn't act as a global policeman countries like Iraq would of had wmds!!!!!! And countries like N. Korea would be using chemical weapons. And furthermore, it would take to damn long to assemble the troops necessary to go to war if we didn't have them already in the military!!


PS we are not gouged by taxes

[Slayer]

Moath wrote: Wow. That is some statistic. The US has seriously got to cut back on military spending..

I'm an E3 in the Air Force with two years in and only got paid 17,000 last year, which is under the proverty line..........we cant cut back spendings too much. And do you think that some one willing to die for their country, putting their lives on the line for your freedoms should get paid a lot more? Damn liberals