Political Crossfire Forums

[Kindred]

China rejects US charges over military potential





BEIJING (Reuters) - China rejected on Tuesday a Pentagon report that singled out Beijing as the major power most likely to challenge Washington's military supremacy and said it posed no threat to the outside world.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/wl_nm/security_china_usa_dc

[Gremlin]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/wl_nm/security_china_usa_dc

thats the link.

Interesting story.

[jeechoscopy]

Chinese has well observed the USA's policy. They will react according to the wars myth:

"Defend when they want to offend; offend when they want to defend"

It seems Chinese are defending on Pentagons offence..

[superchick]

"The United States and Japan have complained about the secrecy of China's military spending, which was officially about $30 billion in 2005, a 12.6 percent rise on the previous year.

Many foreign experts believe the real figure could be significantly higher.

Kong said China adopted a path of peaceful development and posed no threat to the outside world."

Do you think Chinese spending could be more like $439 Billion? That is how much we are spending in 2006. I can see why China would be offended.

[anselfir]

The only response ican come upwith is "duh"

[TwinkieDP]

Well, we can't be in the number one spot forever...

[jeechoscopy]

Danpt2000 wrote: Well, we can't be in the number one spot forever...


After USSR someone have to fill the vacancy… Why not China?
Don’t know why she is doing so…

What would be a threat behind the heavy investment?

[Slayer]

Danpt2000 wrote: Well, we can't be in the number one spot forever...
What a shi**y attitude you have. We as Americans must strive to have the strongest military, which is why we must not have a liberal in office!!!!!!!

[Demonic Spoon]

Quote: What a shi**y attitude you have. We as Americans must strive to have the strongest military, which is why we must not have a liberal in office!!!!!!!

Why must we have the strongest military, hmm? WE do NOT need to have a powerful offensive military. We need to be able to create one quickly in the event of an attack (World War 2 anyone?). It's just pissed away money until it is needed.

And America can NOT be the superpower forever. All great nations/empires have fallen, or at the very least lost most of their power. British Empire, Roman Empire, Greece, etc..
.
I am not saying it will be due to war, but eventually America will fall.

[TwinkieDP]

Slayer wrote: Danpt2000 wrote: Well, we can't be in the number one spot forever...
What a shi**y attitude you have. We as Americans must strive to have the strongest military, which is why we must not have a liberal in office!!!!!!! Ahh, the strongest military for what purpose? For defence? No, for the greater part of the 20th century America's military has been used for Power Projection. America has been the aggressor for numerous conflicts. When She is not being the aggressor She is playing the part of Global policeman behind the facade of the UN. Sometimes it is difficult of distinguish whether the U.S. is a Republic or an Empire. Besides the fact that overall American standard of living is one of the highest, many peoples around the world flock here also recognizing U.S. dominance in geopolitics. Don't get me wrong, America is a great place to live (except for the fact that we are all gouged by taxes), but don't blind yourself from the true nature of the beast we call America.

[jeechoscopy]

If the faults could be fixed by so constructive criticism, no doubt America would keep its strength and supremacy long.

[TwinkieDP]

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, sale of arms and meddling in the affairs of the Middle Eastern nations, Taiwan and China, School of the Americas in the South?
I'm sure the list goes on.....

[eynon]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4692134.stm

(scratches head) I don't get it, on one hand we're calling the Chinese a threat and poking them, but then we turn around a chastise Taiwan for moving towards independence;
"Washington sharply reminded Taipei that it did not support moves towards independence and was opposed to any unilateral change in the cross-strait status quo."

If we're gonna fight, lets fight while the military gap is still large, if we're not gonna fight stop with the poking :-|

[The Artfool Dodger]

It is quite obvious that America fears it has a rival in Beijing, something which is not at all a created fear. Beijing very well could in the near future pose a great threat, especially when the questions of sea lanes, economic dominance, and military influence come into play with a more hegemonic China. I am actually taking the side of the Americans in this debate. I believe many people in the world, and I know for certain in Germany, sit back and have a good laugh at America with her future possible combat with China as something deserved for the Yankees. I, however, fear a world dominated by a nation like China, ruled by authoritarian Communists. As much as the world dislikes American policy, attacking the American government as proponents of state sponsored terror, at least they have democratic values within their own country. How would the world look if we were dominated globally by the likes the of the Chinese? Furthermore, while the American government is by no means 100% truthful, the Chinese government is always greatly in denial, and continues to spread lies to its citizenry, and to a world largly hostile to America. I could not stop myself from laughing when I read in the above article, the Chinese attempt to claim China has never been a threat to anyone in its past. In ancient history China attempted to invade Japan, in modern history it invaded (and recieved a crushing defeat) Vietnam (in order to protect her own interests), and has carried out atrocious actions in Tibet, while threatening Taiwan. And let us not also forget China's war with India, in which she annexed portions of the latter's territory. China has never been a threat? Do not make me laugh! This issue is not so black and white as most observers may believe at first glance, especially when taking into consideration the fact that while the Yanks spend way more on their military than does China, it is a lower percentage of their GDP than China's.

[XxMorningStarxX]

superchick wrote: "The United States and Japan have complained about the secrecy of China's military spending, which was officially about $30 billion in 2005, a 12.6 percent rise on the previous year.

Many foreign experts believe the real figure could be significantly higher.

Kong said China adopted a path of peaceful development and posed no threat to the outside world."

Do you think Chinese spending could be more like $439 Billion? That is how much we are spending in 2006. I can see why China would be offended.

Impossible. it's completely unfeasable for China to have such a big military budget. Given the official U.S. pentagon estimate at 40 billion (and this was very much inflated from what the chinese admitted was 20 billion, a conservative estimate), i think the "actual" Chinese spending should be somewhere around there. 439 billion would place China at nearly the same military spending as the U.S. (at 450-470 billion), which is obviously not true.

You have to realize that most of the U.S. military spending goes to high tech research projects involving fourth/fifth generation tanks, fighters, and infantry equipment and gadgets- this kind of research typically invovles a looottt more money than just producing tanks and aircraft. Now China's military right now is barely to U.S. 1970/1980s standards, so if China were to spend that much money, they would obvoiusly spend it first on modernizing their present equipment (with research as a secondary priority). Thus even if they had a 100 billion dollar budget, the results would show immediately.

www.sinodefence.com

Main weapons in the chinese arsenal include

Type - 69, mainstay of PLA armor (modified Soviet T-55 tank that was intended for use in the 50s.)

MiG - 21 , main aircraft in the PLAAF and hardly competes with an F4 phantom, China does however, maintain superiorites of numbers in the air, but in an air war the U.S. would enjoy a superiority ratio of 10-1 (in other words. COMPLETE air superiority)

China also has serious logistics problems with a country so huge and an army so vast. An army of 500,000 (such as the U.S. army) is in turn supported by a vast number of other personnel in the nation along with millions and millions of logistical engineers, military researchers, and other specialists, not to mention the economic structure by which they are supported. In modern times, the proportionality of the actual army is very small compared to the personnel they are supported by. China lacks this support, and so in a war, their resources- not manpower- would be rapidly exhausted. Furthermore, China can only deploy 10-20 percent of its troops, while the U.S. can potentially deploy nearly all at once. China has a NO projection capability whatsoever, with a poor air force and small navy.

China is a threat not because of its military advantage, but because it is the only [relatively] strong military power in the world to actually be of political concern to the U.S. Militarily, China is no match.

[superchick]

I just find it very ridiculous the reaction of the US. You are spending way too much on your military...do as I say NOT as I do.

[The Artfool Dodger]

superchick wrote: I just find it very ridiculous the reaction of the US. You are spending way too much on your military...do as I say NOT as I do.

Yet, the Chinese spend a greater portion of their GDP on the military than does the United States. So, from a certain perspective, it is not that ridiuculous.

[TwinkieDP]

Quote: The claim of the People's Republic of China that its defense spending is far lower than other major powers is correct, on the condition the official military budget number of the People's Republic of China is the real budget number. It has also been argued that the United States is also deliberately misleading on actual military expenditures, for example excluding Iraq and Afghanistan-related expenses from the official Department of Defense budget report. [1] This suspicion about the military expenditure of the United States is confirmed by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_military_budget

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WorldMilitarySpending.jpg

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Quote: According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2003 the United States spent approximately 47% of the world's total military spending of US$956,000,000,000.

Relative to the total GDP of the United States, however, the total spending on the military was only 3.7% in 2003. This spending rate has been in a slow decline since peaking in 1944 at 37.8% of GDP. Even during the peak of the Vietnam War the percentage reached only a high of 9.4% in 1968.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_in_the_United_States


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Look at the data in Tables provided by independent research institutes as well as U.S. DoD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_military_budget

Looking at data from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) , it looks like China's military expenditure trails the U.S. expenditure in absolute terms as well as relative terms.

Normally, the world should think it is good to have a strong Global Policeman, but what do you do when the Police abuses his power?

[TwinkieDP]

The Artfool Dodger wrote: superchick wrote: I just find it very ridiculous the reaction of the US. You are spending way too much on your military...do as I say NOT as I do.

Yet, the Chinese spend a greater portion of their GDP on the military than does the United States. So, from a certain perspective, it is not that ridiuculous. How did you come by this claim??

[The Artfool Dodger]

Danpt2000 wrote: The Artfool Dodger wrote: superchick wrote: I just find it very ridiculous the reaction of the US. You are spending way too much on your military...do as I say NOT as I do.

Yet, the Chinese spend a greater portion of their GDP on the military than does the United States. So, from a certain perspective, it is not that ridiuculous. How did you come by this claim??

Well, I could have been mistaken, or read bad information, however according to the CIA World Fact Book, the US spends a small percentage of its GDP on the military than does China. According to them, American expenditures comprise 3.30% of their GDP, while Chinese expenditures comprise 4.30% of their GDP.

Although, now that I take a closer look at it, the figures for both countries are about two years old, so perhaps I was mistaken.