Political Crossfire Forums

[Reform]

Woot moot.

[Trajan]

leftneckredwing wrote: Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Moot, you nailed it. Great post.

:tu:

Well done sir.

[Saracen]

Trajan wrote: Well done sir.

Moot is a madam. :wink:

[Shady]

Moath wrote: Trajan wrote: Well done sir.

Moot is a madam. :wink:

meh.

[mojo]

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

I would like to clarify that in my criticism of this entire ordeal in the Middle East I have neither criticized Moath nor any other Muslim on this board. The People who are criticizing this ordeal are entirely aware of the sensitive nature of this issue and have tried to approach it with as much class as the situation requires. Many of us will remain resolute when we continue to see the Middle East degenerate as quickly as it has. The level of intolerance has gotten to be so base that it is unfathonable for me comprehend the lack of reason that is being put into these peoples thoughts. They are burning down buildings and killing people for the mere sake of Protest. Freedom of Assembly has its limits. I would venture to say that shouting "Hang the man who drew this blasphemy" and firing automatic weapons in the air is a clear encroachment of any right of assembly.

I am not judging this religion in fact I have applauded those who are willing to stand up against this radicalism. It is obvious that every Muslim is not a terrorist but it is just as obvious that a large section of the muslim population lends credibility to terrorism. There are literally thousands of people in the streets violently protesting. There are far more articulate ways to voice protest but the majority of the Islamic world has not heeded this cries from the west. These people can not be reasoned out of situation that they did not reason themselves into. I wish the best of luck to those standing up against this Islamic movement (Moath). But from my perspective and the view of the west it appears a majority contingent applaud violence and worship death. It's a very scary thing.

[Trajan]

Moath wrote: Ozzone wrote: Moath wrote: Ozzone wrote: So that's what it is. Fatah is a stoolie for the Jews and Hamas suicide bombs them so Hamas supports the Palestinians. Gotcha.

Stop trolling.

I wasn't trolling, I just interpreted your comment about Fatah and Israel.

Quote: I said that Hamas supports the Palestinians in that they provide food, medicine and aid. The Palestinians themselves don't want terror, especially Israeli terrorism:

Well let them prove it. Talk is cheap.

Quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism

Quote: In a July 29, 2005 interview in the Nazareth-based Arab-Israeli newspaper Kul al-Arab, former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni stated that "terror utilized by Israel in the territories is worse than Palestinian terrorism"[10]. Military operations into Palestinian territory, the alleged harassment of Palestinian civilians by both military personnel and Israeli citizens, and the deaths of civilians during the assassination of Arab militant leaders have also resulted in human-rights criticism. For example, in 1982, an assassination attempt on Yasser Arafat killed 200 people when a Beirut apartment block was destroyed by an Israeli bomb, and in 1985, 73 people were killed in another assassination attempt on Arafat in Tunis. [11].

Wikipedia is a great source but not always 100% accurate since posters can modify it.

Quote: Hamas is already going by their truce.

So far, but how many days has it been? I have very little faith that Hamas will stick to the truce.

Quote: All you have to do is wait and see.

Exactly, if a few months go by and they have honored the truce, I'll relent a little. But I'm not holding my breath.

Quote: But it seems that you like to rush head-on and incite more conflict yourself by wiping out Hamas and the Palestinians. And I thought I was the one inciting death and violence. :roll:

No I don't. I just don't trust Hamas (with good reason based on their history). I'm not the only one.


Ok. So by that, you say "let's agree to disagree". Capisce? You have your views on Hamas. I have my views on Hamas. And we just reached an agreement on the boycotting issue. You gave and took, and I gave and took.

Rightwingers should have no problem with Hamas. They won an election. You know, just like Bush, the Iraqi gov't, Blair, et al. The Palestinians made a choice of their own free will to get rid of a corrupt regime.

[Saracen]

Trajan wrote: Rightwingers should have no problem with Hamas. They won an election. You know, just like Bush, the Iraqi gov't, Blair, et al. The Palestinians made a choice of their own free will to get rid of a corrupt regime.

Thanks for your input, Trajan. :wink:
Let's hope the others you mentioned (the Ameircans, Brits, and Iraqis) get rid of their corrupt regimes as well. :)


politicalmojo wrote: I would like to clarify that in my criticism of this entire ordeal in the Middle East I have neither criticized Moath nor any other Muslim on this board. The People who are criticizing this ordeal are entirely aware of the sensitive nature of this issue and have tried to approach it with as much class as the situation requires. Many of us will remain resolute when we continue to see the Middle East degenerate as quickly as it has. The level of intolerance has gotten to be so base that it is unfathonable for me comprehend the lack of reason that is being put into these peoples thoughts. They are burning down buildings and killing people for the mere sake of Protest. Freedom of Assembly has its limits. I would venture to say that shouting "Hang the man who drew this blasphemy" and firing automatic weapons in the air is a clear encroachment of any right of assembly.

Do you honestly think that ALL Middle Easterns are doing what is bolded? No. Most of them mind their own business. People can be intolerant at times, but I assume you go by the "If one rotten apple is put into a barrel of sound ones, they're all rotten" approach, which is entirely wrong. I don't see why the West is still intolerant towards, for example, abortion, among other issues. :-|

politicalmojo wrote: I am not judging this religion in fact I have applauded those who are willing to stand up against this radicalism. It is obvious that every Muslim is not a terrorist but it is just as obvious that a large section of the muslim population lends credibility to terrorism. There are literally thousands of people in the streets violently protesting. There are far more articulate ways to voice protest but the majority of the Islamic world has not heeded this cries from the west. These people can not be reasoned out of situation that they did not reason themselves into. I wish the best of luck to those standing up against this Islamic movement (Moath). But from my perspective and the view of the west it appears a majority contingent applaud violence and worship death. It's a very scary thing.

Look, there you go again with your rash generalizations. Do you know how many people live in the Middle East? MILLIONS. And thousands who protest do not resemble MILLIONS of people. For example, many people keep saying that the Palestinians don't want peace because they chose Hamas. First off, not all Palestinians voted. Second, Hamas was chosen citing corruption of Fatah and the PA. Third, Hamas gave more aid towards the Palestinians than did Fatah. So, why do you blame them for chosing Hamas? As Trajan said:

Trajan wrote: Rightwingers should have no problem with Hamas. They won an election. You know, just like Bush, the Iraqi gov't, Blair, et al. The Palestinians made a choice of their own free will to get rid of a corrupt regime.

Also, the Islamic world itself is not a unified body. We don't have a figure like the pope, but I already proved that every Muslim cleric is denouncing the violence by these protesters. And you made your perception obvious at the last paragraph:

You wrote: But from my perspective and the view of the west it appears a majority contingent applaud violence and worship death.

It is obvious to you that the Middle East is "degenerating". Just because there are a thousand protesters doesn't mean that the whole Middle East is like that. The violence is going down in the Middle East, but now it's East Asia's turn to face it.

[Trajan]

Why do the ones who call for violence get air time? Because violence is exciting. As the saying goes, If it bleeds, it leads. The tens of millions of Islamic followers who are against this get little, if any coverage.

Which reminds me. There is a rash of Baptist church arsons in Alabama right now. I don't see a swarm of people protesting against that. Where is Robertson, Fallwell, etc. Why are they not organizing and trying to find who is burning Baptists churches? Why isn't the Christian community doing something about that?

[kang]

moot.........1
rest of us...0

[Saracen]

kang wrote: moot.........1
rest of us...0

Let me correct that:
Moot and those who understand..... 1
The rest of those who do not..........0

[Ozzone]

I love how everyone is getting so slap happy because of Moot's post. It's like you all nod your head like sheep. Well it's my turn.

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

Some did but I didn't. I went after him when he tried to claim the riots had nothing to do with religion. I said they were using the word Blasphemy in their argument and Moath continued to avoid that and still claim it's just political. It appears you guys won't even wait for history to unfold and are trying to rewrite it on the fly now.

Quote: The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves.

And the way some of you are behaving, you are just like the rioters in the ME by doing your best to defend the Muslim side by saying it's only a handful of rioters that doesn't reflect the entire Muslim religion. If it was just a handful, I would agree, but it has turned into many thousands in many areas yet Moath still continued to try and downplay it.

Quote: If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

So now you are saying that the 99.999999% that aren't rioting didn't go through what the other .0000001% did and that's why they aren't behaving the same way?

Quote: ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Nice of you to defend Moath. I let him give his window into his world, but the moment he said that the rioters were not doing it in the name of religion, the glass shattered.

Quote: Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer.

So anyone disagreeing with what Moath said verbatim is now a "arrogant know-nothing ignoramous? I'd call that a personal attack on a whole group of posters.

Quote: If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate.

It's easy to debate honestly, when people are honest. But denying the truth isn't honesty. The riots are about religious tolerance vs. freedom of speech and not just a political thing.

Quote: But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity.

Again more personal group attacks. You do your best to attack without naming names, but it is pretty obvious who you are talking about.

Quote: When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them.

How in the hell would you know? Your hatred is so obvious it just leaks all over you posts.

Quote: If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

Good question. Let's ask the Democrats that push for rights yet want to limit damn near everything we do when it steps over the line of their definition of personal freedom and responsibility.

Quote: PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

Ahh, so the bottom line is you hate religion. Funny how you show tolerance to what the Muslims do and at the same time condemn it. You must be really confused.

Quote: LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

I'm waiting for the amendment to the Constitution in rewriting the 1st Amendment.

Quote: I would like to clarify that in my criticism of this entire ordeal in the Middle East I have neither criticized Moath nor any other Muslim on this board. The People who are criticizing this ordeal are entirely aware of the sensitive nature of this issue and have tried to approach it with as much class as the situation requires. Many of us will remain resolute when we continue to see the Middle East degenerate as quickly as it has. The level of intolerance has gotten to be so base that it is unfathonable for me comprehend the lack of reason that is being put into these peoples thoughts. They are burning down buildings and killing people for the mere sake of Protest. Freedom of Assembly has its limits. I would venture to say that shouting "Hang the man who drew this blasphemy" and firing automatic weapons in the air is a clear encroachment of any right of assembly.

That is it right there. Tolerance vs. freedom of speech. Of course you haven't criticized Moath because, based on your history, tolerance means more to you than freedom of speech. I bet there's a bunch of Libertarians on here just laughing at your comments.

Quote: I am not judging this religion in fact I have applauded those who are willing to stand up against this radicalism. It is obvious that every Muslim is not a terrorist but it is just as obvious that a large section of the muslim population lends credibility to terrorism. There are literally thousands of people in the streets violently protesting. There are far more articulate ways to voice protest but the majority of the Islamic world has not heeded this cries from the west. These people can not be reasoned out of situation that they did not reason themselves into. I wish the best of luck to those standing up against this Islamic movement (Moath). But from my perspective and the view of the west it appears a majority contingent applaud violence and worship death. It's a very scary thing.

That's the one thing you said that I agree 100% with. Maybe you can understand why so many people get upset because even though there's over a billion Muslims, it's like they are mostly sheep that stand around and bleat at the wolves that burn down embassies. At least that's the impression people get based on what the see, not what one Muslim says it really is.

What is the most ironic thing (and yes I will make a comparison), we keep hearing how only a very small percentage of Muslims are creating the problem which is not reflective of the massive majority...

YET

When a few insurgents have a successful attack out of 25 million Iraqis, we are losing the war. If you can't see the hypocritical irony in that, then you are truly drunk on Kool-Aid.

[Ameriman]

Ozzone wrote: I love how everyone is getting so slap happy because of Moot's post. It's like you all nod your head like sheep. Well it's my turn.

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

Some did but I didn't. I went after him when he tried to claim the riots had nothing to do with religion. I said they were using the word Blasphemy in their argument and Moath continued to avoid that and still claim it's just political. It appears you guys won't even wait for history to unfold and are trying to rewrite it on the fly now.

Quote: The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves.

And the way some of you are behaving, you are just like the rioters in the ME by doing your best to defend the Muslim side by saying it's only a handful of rioters that doesn't reflect the entire Muslim religion. If it was just a handful, I would agree, but it has turned into many thousands in many areas yet Moath still continued to try and downplay it.

Quote: If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

So now you are saying that the 99.999999% that aren't rioting didn't go through what the other .0000001% did and that's why they aren't behaving the same way?

Quote: ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Nice of you to defend Moath. I let him give his window into his world, but the moment he said that the rioters were not doing it in the name of religion, the glass shattered.

Quote: Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer.

So anyone disagreeing with what Moath said verbatim is now a "arrogant know-nothing ignoramous? I'd call that a personal attack on a whole group of posters.

Quote: If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate.

It's easy to debate honestly, when people are honest. But denying the truth isn't honesty. The riots are about religious tolerance vs. freedom of speech and not just a political thing.

Quote: But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity.

Again more personal group attacks. You do your best to attack without naming names, but it is pretty obvious who you are talking about.

Quote: When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them.

How in the hell would you know? Your hatred is so obvious it just leaks all over you posts.

Quote: If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

Good question. Let's ask the Democrats that push for rights yet want to limit damn near everything we do when it steps over the line of their definition of personal freedom and responsibility.

Quote: PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

Ahh, so the bottom line is you hate religion. Funny how you show tolerance to what the Muslims do and at the same time condemn it. You must be really confused.

Quote: LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

I'm waiting for the amendment to the Constitution in rewriting the 1st Amendment.

Quote: I would like to clarify that in my criticism of this entire ordeal in the Middle East I have neither criticized Moath nor any other Muslim on this board. The People who are criticizing this ordeal are entirely aware of the sensitive nature of this issue and have tried to approach it with as much class as the situation requires. Many of us will remain resolute when we continue to see the Middle East degenerate as quickly as it has. The level of intolerance has gotten to be so base that it is unfathonable for me comprehend the lack of reason that is being put into these peoples thoughts. They are burning down buildings and killing people for the mere sake of Protest. Freedom of Assembly has its limits. I would venture to say that shouting "Hang the man who drew this blasphemy" and firing automatic weapons in the air is a clear encroachment of any right of assembly.

That is it right there. Tolerance vs. freedom of speech. Of course you haven't criticized Moath because, based on your history, tolerance means more to you than freedom of speech. I bet there's a bunch of Libertarians on here just laughing at your comments.

Quote: I am not judging this religion in fact I have applauded those who are willing to stand up against this radicalism. It is obvious that every Muslim is not a terrorist but it is just as obvious that a large section of the muslim population lends credibility to terrorism. There are literally thousands of people in the streets violently protesting. There are far more articulate ways to voice protest but the majority of the Islamic world has not heeded this cries from the west. These people can not be reasoned out of situation that they did not reason themselves into. I wish the best of luck to those standing up against this Islamic movement (Moath). But from my perspective and the view of the west it appears a majority contingent applaud violence and worship death. It's a very scary thing.

That's the one thing you said that I agree 100% with. Maybe you can understand why so many people get upset because even though there's over a billion Muslims, it's like they are mostly sheep that stand around and bleat at the wolves that burn down embassies. At least that's the impression people get based on what the see, not what one Muslim says it really is.

What is the most ironic thing (and yes I will make a comparison), we keep hearing how only a very small percentage of Muslims are creating the problem which is not reflective of the massive majority...

YET

When a few insurgents have a successful attack out of 25 million Iraqis, we are losing the war. If you can't see the hypocritical irony in that, then you are truly drunk on Kool-Aid.

Beat me too it... :wink:

[Saracen]

Ozzone wrote: I love how everyone is getting so slap happy because of Moot's post. It's like you all nod your head like sheep. Well it's my turn.

I love how you keep trolling and senselessly bash Muslims just because of 1000's of others. Well guess what: I'm not going to apologize for something I am not doing. It's like you stick to what your media says like sheep. Well, guess what: your post is nothing but a troll post. If you want to single me out and bash my head with so much f****d up sh!t, go ahead. I'll just ignore you because I've done wasting my time with someone who doesn't listen to civil debate.

Ozzone wrote: Nice of you to defend Moath. I let him give his window into his world, but the moment he said that the rioters were not doing it in the name of religion, the glass shattered.

Shame on you to continuously attack me for what I'm not doing. They were not doing it in the name of religion because religion does not call for such senseless violence, and I've been telling you this for the last week or so, yet arguments enter your ear and go out the other. Yet, when we agreed on something a few posts back, you just reverted to what you were saying in the beginning in this post. Shame on you for singling me out. Moot's post is the best post in this thread, and your simple trolling doesn't deny its credibility.

Ozzone wrote: And the way some of you are behaving, you are just like the rioters in the ME by doing your best to defend the Muslim side by saying it's only a handful of rioters that doesn't reflect the entire Muslim religion. If it was just a handful, I would agree, but it has turned into many thousands in many areas yet Moath still continued to try and downplay it.

I'm not downplaying sh!t. I know there are a thousand, but what sort of a threat are they really? Denmark is miles away from where they are, and so is the USA. What threat are they to your "freedoms"?

Ozzone, get lost. Seriously. Don't hold me accountable for something I'm not doing. People are doing this because they were insulted. Islam doesn't allow for such senseless violence, and yet you don't listen. Do you honestly think that 1 BILLION MUSLIMS are accountable for what only 20 people did on 9/11? Of course not.

[Saracen]

Oh yeah, and you've been reported for trolling.

[Gdawg007]

I think we've let this run its course. Locked.