Political Crossfire Forums

[RealRepublicanArmy]

The statement that Hamas is a terrorist organization is also up for debate. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Personally I consider the IRA to be the liberators of an oppressive and evil regime, and from the facts about the Israeli/Palestinian situation, how is Hamas a terrorist organization? Because women and children who shouldn't be in that land in the first place are killed? "The British continue to claim sovereignty over part of our country and while that is the case armed struggle will always be justified." Change British to Israel and the quote can be applied.

[Saracen]

Ozzone wrote: Misguided followers. All over the world. That few is 1000s.

Compared to 1.3 BILLION, yes.

Ozzone wrote: Irrelevent redirection.

The Iraqis are scared, both from the Americans and the insurgents.

Ozzone wrote: We denounce Christian whackos too and we actually try and stop them. Lip service means nothing.

No no. It does. You shouldn't bash Islam. You should bash those who are not willing to get up. But guess what: our leaders won't put up to it. THey're too busy fighting the fight in their own backyards with these terrorists.

Ozzone wrote: No, I will blame you because you said this:

"And it's thousands. So what? The number won't grow further."

I said don't blame them because this cartoon was posted again and again and again from September till now. It's only recently that the protests became violent.

Ozzone wrote: Where did I say the Danes didn't bring religion into it? Of course they did. The Muslims retaliated in defense of their religion. They rioted in defense of their religion. They torched embassys in anger because of their religion.

See? It is not just political - it is freedom of speech vs. religion. Do you get it yet?

Not all of the Muslims burned the embassies in defense; in fact, it is unnacceptable. It's more sensationalism than anything else.

As for this matter, it's freedom of speech versus religious tolerance.

Ozzone wrote: What I have trouble with is the "misguided" Muslims that are escalating the problem with blatant violence. Refusing to buy Danish dairy products is one thing, but committing acts of aggressive violence is entirely different and inexcusable.

I know that. That's why I agree with this statement.

Ozzone wrote: So much anger that they decided to burn down embassys and make deadly threats. Not just a handful of Muslims, but 1000s and growing. They are getting even more pissed that European governments refuse to appease them all in the name of "tolerance" and to hell with freedom of speech. That is what the core crux of the problem is. Europeans will not apologize and not appease and my hat goes off to them. I've had my differences in the past with Europe, but they are quickly proving that freedom of speech is not for sale.

On that, you must mean "let's agree to disagree".

[Saracen]

RealRepublicanArmy wrote: The statement that Hamas is a terrorist organization is also up for debate. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Personally I consider the IRA to be the liberators of an oppressive and evil regime, and from the facts about the Israeli/Palestinian situation, how is Hamas a terrorist organization? Because women and children who shouldn't be in that land in the first place are killed? "The British continue to claim sovereignty over part of our country and while that is the case armed struggle will always be justified." Change British to Israel and the quote can be applied.

Thanks for bringing it up, RRA.

[Saracen]

Ozzone wrote: Moath wrote: Ozzone wrote: So that's what it is. Fatah is a stoolie for the Jews and Hamas suicide bombs them so Hamas supports the Palestinians. Gotcha.

Stop trolling.

I wasn't trolling, I just interpreted your comment about Fatah and Israel.

Quote: I said that Hamas supports the Palestinians in that they provide food, medicine and aid. The Palestinians themselves don't want terror, especially Israeli terrorism:

Well let them prove it. Talk is cheap.

Quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism

Quote: In a July 29, 2005 interview in the Nazareth-based Arab-Israeli newspaper Kul al-Arab, former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni stated that "terror utilized by Israel in the territories is worse than Palestinian terrorism"[10]. Military operations into Palestinian territory, the alleged harassment of Palestinian civilians by both military personnel and Israeli citizens, and the deaths of civilians during the assassination of Arab militant leaders have also resulted in human-rights criticism. For example, in 1982, an assassination attempt on Yasser Arafat killed 200 people when a Beirut apartment block was destroyed by an Israeli bomb, and in 1985, 73 people were killed in another assassination attempt on Arafat in Tunis. [11].

Wikipedia is a great source but not always 100% accurate since posters can modify it.

Quote: Hamas is already going by their truce.

So far, but how many days has it been? I have very little faith that Hamas will stick to the truce.

Quote: All you have to do is wait and see.

Exactly, if a few months go by and they have honored the truce, I'll relent a little. But I'm not holding my breath.

Quote: But it seems that you like to rush head-on and incite more conflict yourself by wiping out Hamas and the Palestinians. And I thought I was the one inciting death and violence. :roll:

No I don't. I just don't trust Hamas (with good reason based on their history). I'm not the only one.


Ok. So by that, you say "let's agree to disagree". Capisce? You have your views on Hamas. I have my views on Hamas. And we just reached an agreement on the boycotting issue. You gave and took, and I gave and took.

[Gdawg007]

Ozzone wrote: Trajan wrote: Republicant wrote: Whats the deal with a few little cartoons ????

How come flag burnings and death threats from all those peacefull Muslims ?

If Christians got upset anytime a cartoon poked fun at Christianity the earth would be scorched and Humankind would cease to exist .

Shed some light on this for those who truly want to believe the Muslims Religion is a Religion of peace ?

Why don't you stop lumping the nutjobs in with the true followers.

Well it wouldn't be so easy if the true followers spoke up more, but instead all we seem to hear are the nutjobs.

But that's true of everything. Does Pat Robertson speak for a majority of Christians? No, but he sure does have a lot more voice than most do, doesn't he...

[Gaea]

My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

[RealRepublicanArmy]

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

:clap:

[Gremlin]

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Moot your a good person. Similar thoughts ran threw my head when reading this crap from a few ignorant individuals. Im glad someone posted this because it needed to be said, and i could not do it in such that follow forum rules.

[LaZarus]

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Well said Moot... :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Saracen]

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Oh, come on, Moot, no apologies needed. EXCELLENT POST! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Canada_Rocks]

Ozzone wrote:


Hell, while we're at it, let's not forget cave men clubbing each other over a meal. I believe our society has advanceed way beyond that, but if you must constantly bring up things 100s of years ago to prove a point and ignore what is happening today, go right ahead. The intelligent ones on here will just ignore it.

Haha. Christianity has only adapted due to the confinements of LAW. Fundies still run rampant trying to influence the courts and the populace with their mumbo jumbo. If the US was more theocratic, you would see Christianity running a muck as well. The Muslim fundamentalists have no chains attached to them -- nothing to answer to. It is easy to preach your superiority from a safe and secure country but claiming that the past trasgretions by the "Word of god" in no longer applicable is ridiculous. You are an expert on sentanics and circular logic. Poeple still died due to Cristianity and your "nothing to see here" atitude changes nothing.

[jeechoscopy]

Gremlin wrote: Moath wrote: politicalmojo wrote: All of those events happened many years ago. Not to mention that the Church has specifically apologized for past crimes against others. This includes the crusades and the papacies persecution of Galileo. While Islam has continually advocated the use of force as the best practice of jihad. (Jihad can be waged by peaceful means as well) Not to mention that the Palestanian people elected terrorists to their government further villifing what everyone knows deep down. These Muslims are not a fringe minority but a healthy majority.

Ugh, more of your rash assumptions. I live in the Middle East, and I know my stats. If they were in the majority, there would have been a helluva lot more terror attacks than what you're seeing. Palestinians elected Hamas for a reason, other than them being what you call a terrorist group.

Would it be fair to say that innocents of Iraqis are being slaughtered by the religion of Love we know as Christianity? Of course not! It doesn't make sense.

Religion does not kill people. People kill people.

:tu:

Well answered!!


I’ll repost a link about the media’s importance that’ll let you all understand your surrounding thoughts about Islam.

Here it is:


http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1310


Peace!

[thefranzkafkafront]

politicalmojo wrote: leftneckredwing wrote: Quote: Im just looking at this from a recent point of view. Just look what has happened as of recently in the Middle East. They have elected two extremist organizations into office, Hamas and the Radical Iranian Prime Minister. It's hard for me to ignore it when its so blatantly obvious that Islam expecially recently is rising up in violence for absolutely absurd things. Isreal has already taken all of its troops from occupying Palestine. They are trying the peaceful solution but then the Palestanians are calling for Isreal to be pushed back in to the sea. This has always been Hamas's goal and will continue to be Hamas's goal. These crazed leaders were elected by a Democratic vote. Doesn't this show something to the effect of the general sentiment of the country. I believe its fair to say that it does.

You can't reason people out of situations they didn't reason themselves into.

I am not prejudiced nor racist. I have approached these very sensitive debates with as much class as possible while trying to be quite frank with my opinions. What I am seeing is a disintegration of culture.

You said and I quote:

Quote: These Muslims are not a fringe minority but a healthy majority.

That is completely preposterous. It is a disintegration of culture that propels statements like this. And a willingness to demonise a religion and a population.

White people elected Hitler and Mussolini. Were white people therefore a radical population?

Give your head a shake.

We define radicals as people who support terrorism.

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

The People elected Hamas to power with an overwhelming majority.

Therefore the palestanian people support terrorism.

That is my logic and it looks pretty solid.
And they comprise an area roughly the size of greater london, in a muslim world that spans from algeria to indonesia.

Start using stastical tests or stop talking about logic.

Quote:
Actually yes Germans were a radical population. But also white people rose up and defeated those extremists. But their is no such strong movement in Islam or the Middle East.

So did muslims (don't belive me look up the punjab rifles regiment), indians, africans, indonesians, chinese, yada yada yada yada.

And if there was no such strong liberal movment in the middle east, what has all this iraq ho har been about. For one the Kurdish party in Iraq (muslim) has quite a few policies that strike a cord with me.

[Zeeman]

I sort of understand now how some see the generalizations,and when we see its not everyone you say but no one is condeming it.Then we say ofcourse there is...

I think it lies in a difference between the Christian culture and Muslim one.In Islam(sunni Islam i mean) there is no figure like the Pope,or a priest where what he says is declared on the whole people.The reason behind this in Islam is to prevent having a link between Muslims and their God,which as everyone well knows can be corrupted by that high figure.
If one of the Imams or Mullas gives his opinion it is not a ,Islam wants people to think and not just follow.It realizes that people can interpret and use their judgment.

That is why sometimes you see one Imam saying something about an issue that another disagrees with in the end use your head in weighing their arguments and do what you think..

That being said,all i have heard from clerics is against violence.

[Ozzone]

Moath wrote: Ozzone wrote: Misguided followers. All over the world. That few is 1000s.

Compared to 1.3 BILLION, yes.

Agree.

Ozzone wrote: Irrelevent redirection.

The Iraqis are scared, both from the Americans and the insurgents.[/quote]

I would see they are less scared and more angry. Of course the argument will be who they are angry at, but it appears they are a lot more angry at the insurgents.

Quote: Ozzone wrote: We denounce Christian whackos too and we actually try and stop them. Lip service means nothing.

No no. It does. You shouldn't bash Islam. You should bash those who are not willing to get up. But guess what: our leaders won't put up to it. THey're too busy fighting the fight in their own backyards with these terrorists.

I'm not bashing Islam. Please go back and read exactly the things I said.

Quote: Ozzone wrote: No, I will blame you because you said this:

"And it's thousands. So what? The number won't grow further."

I said don't blame them because this cartoon was posted again and again and again from September till now. It's only recently that the protests became violent.

I'm not denying that the Europeans aren't aggravating the situation. I guess when the Muslim world started demanding apologies (or more) is when the EU started going further. Again it is an issue of freedom of speech vs. religious tolerance.

Quote: Ozzone wrote: Where did I say the Danes didn't bring religion into it? Of course they did. The Muslims retaliated in defense of their religion. They rioted in defense of their religion. They torched embassys in anger because of their religion.

See? It is not just political - it is freedom of speech vs. religion. Do you get it yet?

Not all of the Muslims burned the embassies in defense; in fact, it is unnacceptable. It's more sensationalism than anything else.

As for this matter, it's freedom of speech versus religious tolerance.

Of course not all Muslims participated in the burnings. But thousands in many locations warrants enough concern from the Europeans.

Quote: Ozzone wrote: What I have trouble with is the "misguided" Muslims that are escalating the problem with blatant violence. Refusing to buy Danish dairy products is one thing, but committing acts of aggressive violence is entirely different and inexcusable.

I know that. That's why I agree with this statement.

See there is a middle ground.

Quote: Ozzone wrote: So much anger that they decided to burn down embassys and make deadly threats. Not just a handful of Muslims, but 1000s and growing. They are getting even more pissed that European governments refuse to appease them all in the name of "tolerance" and to hell with freedom of speech. That is what the core crux of the problem is. Europeans will not apologize and not appease and my hat goes off to them. I've had my differences in the past with Europe, but they are quickly proving that freedom of speech is not for sale.

On that, you must mean "let's agree to disagree".

That's ok, I suspect you would see the Muslim side having more credence than the European side. But then freedom of speech isn't cherished as much in the Middle East as it is in the western world.

[leftneckredwing]

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Moot, you nailed it. Great post.

:tu:

[bob.appleyard]

Zeeman wrote: I sort of understand now how some see the generalizations,and when we see its not everyone you say but no one is condeming it.Then we say ofcourse there is...

I think it lies in a difference between the Christian culture and Muslim one.In Islam(sunni Islam i mean) there is no figure like the Pope,or a priest where what he says is declared on the whole people.The reason behind this in Islam is to prevent having a link between Muslims and their God,which as everyone well knows can be corrupted by that high figure.
If one of the Imams or Mullas gives his opinion it is not a ,Islam wants people to think and not just follow.It realizes that people can interpret and use their judgment.

That is why sometimes you see one Imam saying something about an issue that another disagrees with in the end use your head in weighing their arguments and do what you think..

That being said,all i have heard from clerics is against violence.

Islam did have a cliph, which functioned in a slightly similar way to the Christian Emperor and Pope combined.

[Zeeman]

Good point.But its not really the same....There were religious Caliphites ofcourse who were just but then again there were others that werent...

Plus at this age I dont think there is one ruler who can speak for all of Muslims..

[pedagogue]

Republicant wrote: Whats the deal with a few little cartoons ????

How come flag burnings and death threats from all those peacefull Muslims ?

If Christians got upset anytime a cartoon poked fun at Christianity the earth would be scorched and Humankind would cease to exist .

Shed some light on this for those who truly want to believe the Muslims Religion is a Religion of peace ?

As I hear tell Republicant, those "death threats" have become the murder of even Catholic priests.

Moath wrote: You mentioned "peaceful" Muslims. The religion, Islam, is peaceful, but not all of its followers are. Likewise, the followers of Christianity are not always peaceful, yet the religion itself is. People are the ones who stir up conflict, not religion. I keep hearing these senseless arguments by people saying "count how many were slaughtered by the religion of peace". It doesn't make sense to begin with! Religion does not kill people. People kill people.

Moath, this is one area that I take issue. In order for others to be tolerant of you, you also have to be tolerant of others. It's a two-way street. What is it that your prophet says about athiests? And much of Europe is just that! Moreover, under some funny Islamic laws, non-Muslims, and for some funny reason, aren't to be treated the same as Muslims under that law. In Saudi Arabia, the Saudi press has held a 'field-day,' and going back to the very inception of Israel, falsifying, misrepresenting, dissimulating and mendaciously perjuring Israeli beliefs, culture and life in order to stoke hatreds against Israel, and all in the name of Allah. Now I wouldn't consider that very 'tolerant,' much less 'peaceful.' In the Sudan, Christian and native animist followers in the south are enslaved by Muslims in the north. What remedy do they have? Follow Islam.

Now I have long held to one belief and that belief is; when any philosophy requires threat of bodily harm, liberty or any other abuse of basic human rights to produce its adherents, then that is an evil philosophy well worth flat-out rejection and scorn! And while Christians too have not been free from committing these abuses of basic human rights, at least over the past two centuries, and outside of a few crackpots, have adopted a far more tolerant stance toward their neighbors. And while I may take issue with certain liberties taken within this country, for instance ... Houston Chronicle wrote: Muslims say sign left near mosque was hate crime—Police note the message was found on public property, making it hard to classify
...
The sign had been placed against a fence considered public property by Houston investigators. If the sign had been placed on the mosque's property, authorities said, it would be more likely considered a hate crime.
...
"Right now, investigators are having trouble finding the crime," [sic: Nat] McDuell [sic: Houston Police Department spokesman] said. "They may have the hate, but they don't have the crime."
...
"What are they waiting for? A major crime (before) they take action?" he [sic: Imam Zoubir Bouchikhi, the mosque's leader] asked. "This, to me, is absurd ... In light of what's going on in the world, I think they should take very strict action against the people who did this." ... because I see the potential for burning a cross on the white neighbor's yard of a black resulting in it not being viewed as a hate crime, the flip side is; were I to peaceably march in front of the mosque on a public sidewalk carrying a sign "Down with the murderers of innocents" with a caricatured depiction of Muhammed on it, would that be considered a hate crime? And if so, what then happens to my freedom of speach? Therefore if Muslims want to be taken seriously, you might take a hint that even Wiccans have caught onto; get a grip and lighten up turkies, you're both inviting and inciting ridicule!

[Republicant]

Moot wrote: My God people, have you no decency? First you call Moath out which was barbaric in itself and then you gang on him like rabid dogs and force him to defend his religion as if any of you know more about Islam than he does. Have you people no shame?

I called out Moath because he is the only Muslim I know of that posts on these boards why would I ask a Non Muslim a question about Islam thats stupid as all get out

The way you people are behaving, you are no better than the rioters in the ME, so don't kid yourselves. If any of you were in their situation and going through what their countries have been put through for the last 50 years at the hands of self rightous bigots, who pretend they know what's best for everyone else, you'd probably behave just the same as they are or worse if your posts are indication.

ONE BILLION MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS. For if they were, I seriously doubt any of you would be here having this little confrontation with Moath, who has shown more patience and decency in his replies than any of you could ever hope to have in fifty life times. Show some respect to the man, for christ sake. He is giving us a window into his world and all you can do is insult his religion as if it were some little game to you. If you can't respect people who are different than you, then how can you respect yourselves?

You know were you can shove that politically correct crap dont ya ?? If Moath is feeling heat he can shurly get out of the kitchen . To me Moath seems to enjoy responding and is doing his best to defend his Religion . Nope one Billion Muslims are not terrorists yet the radicals seem to have some very high positions so they control sometimes out of pure fear a much greater percent than the actual radicals themselves . Than we get to the Money ....yep it always comes down to the almighty buck . Personally I believe Moath for the most part maybe 2 to 5 % of Muslims are radical and willing to terrorize yet all one billion donate to their religion and you would have to be dumb as a box of rocks not to recognise how the radicals get funded . We have places like Iran where something like 60% of the country is 30 years old or under did you ever read their letters begging to be rescued by the US military from their oppressive radical government ? Its even getting to some main stream media , The Chicago Tribune had a 6 page article on this last summer complete with letters from Iranian students . So yes I believe the radicals are only a small percent but many control a much larger percent of the Muslim populace some more willingly than others .

Sorry Moath, but I just couldn't stand the dishonesty of these arrogant no-nothing ignoramouses any longer. If they really wanted to know and understand about Islam, there are plenty of valid sources where they can learn the truth about it if they were so inclined and then come back and have an honest debate. But Noooo, they'd prefer to remain in a state of utter ingnorance and then challenge anyone who dares disagree with their stupidity. When the truth is, they'd be the first to show up at a mob lynching with picnic baskets if we didn't have laws to stop them. If you people weren't really just animals, then why do we have so many damn laws here in the US? Damn self rightous hypocrites.

Bwahahahahaha hello pot this is Kettle !! Good greif man you cant get more self righteous than your above post gee how hypocritical :P

PS: Just so all of you know, I am so disgusted with ALL organized religions at this point, I wish they would just have their Armaggedon and evaporate so the rest of us who really do have morals would never have to put up with their make believe crap again.

Be as disgusted as you please but understand religion has advanced humans probably more than anything in the history of mankind I realize this and I am not a religious man .

LONG LIVE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

You probably don't know why thats in the constitution at all but I would love to hear your interpretation ? Let me give you a hint your gonna need it ....If your answer doesn't include the church of England your wrong :wink: :wink: