Political Crossfire Forums

[George W Bush]

seems that law limits our 'freedom' to do certain things.

well, it really doesnt -

if i choose to do something, regardless of law, i have the freedom to do so. my protocol.

society can arrest me, which i have the freedom to avoid - i can flee.

if i am in jail, i have the freedom to escape if i find ways.

law is merely a hurdle, one more obstacle in achieving the freedom you seek, if that be the case.

[Gus]

It really depends on your definition of freedom...

[Korimyr the Rat]

EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

[mardron7]

I would give up all my freedom... except the right to vote.

If it can't be voted on... it shouldn't be done.

Government should be kept on a short leash. And held responsible to the People.

The best way to protect our freedom is to keep lobbyists out of Washington.

The ballot should outweigh the dollar.

If you want to serve your country join the armed forces. The government serves the voter. Politicians would do well to remember that.

"1984" is a small number compared to 295,734,134 (especially if all eligible American hit the polls).

Give up my freedom? Ha! Only at the hands of a jury of my peers. Otherwise I'm going to vote my freedom back!

(P.S. I'm just showboating. I'm going to shut the heck up now.)

[EugenicHegemony]

Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to steal for itself, and it's special interests-- except for the fact that we are all slaves of our government and deluded into thinking we to take part in the process by which this jingoist government makes all the decisions.

I couldn't address your Involuntary Servitude thread because I'm in willful denial, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

I didn't see you poll here, statist: http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48505&highlight=

WWR

[XxMorningStarxX]

George W Bush wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote:
Freedom De Jure is given by those around you and the society you live in. That makes perfect sense. Freedom De-Facto is different from Freedom De Jure. Of course you can do anything you want- if you kill somebody youll just have to get sentenced. The De Facto part is inherent and unlimited- it needs not be given by anybody- its just there, but the De Jure part is what matters, and that's what must be limited. Because people listen to the law, and if there was no law, or control, there would anarchism and chaos. There's nothing wrong for a goverment to limit your actions, because your actions (or potential actions) are what are going to potentially lead you to violate the rights of others. However, there is a limit to which freedom limitation becomes ridiculous- and that is when governments limit your speech, thought and privacy- keeping this in mind, DO not confuse freedom of speech with the freedom to threaten . I think it's the misunderstanding of the topic that leads people to answer NO here.

ok, Napolean Bonaparte, not everyone on this board is french. What do you mean by 'De Jure', 'De Facto' - or is it latin? use english so I understand.

De Jure and De Facto is commonly used in english... Ever watched a trial? or something on the government? If you've never even heard of those two terms, then you seriuosly should NOT talk. Your comment also demonstrated lack of knowledge along with ignorance. And please, don't ever pull out the BS of "please speak in english"

De Jure- By Law; official
De Facto- Obvious and commonly known

[XxMorningStarxX]

Gus wrote: It really depends on your definition of freedom...

yeah and we already established earlier that by definition, what we meant, was FREEDOM BY LAW and NOT by nature.

[XxMorningStarxX]

Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

agreed, this guy doesn't know what he's saying

[XxMorningStarxX]

NobleOne wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote: Shim Eun-Ha wrote: TheKrava wrote: To protect freedom you need to limit it!

Do you agree with me?
This has got to be the stupidest thing i've heard today...

No offense, but really, how the hell do you protect freedom by limiting it. (taking it away).

How is that a stupid question?? I think its pretty relevent.

Ever heard of anarchism?? That's what happens when you have absolute freedom in its pure and unadulterated form. hmm.. now why does anarchism NOT work- because with freedom from law, there would be no societal development, and thus your personal freedom would actually drop, because though, lawfully, what you can do is basically limitless, you will have nothing to do.. at all!!! because society + government would not exist!! You would essentially be bored to death...

Anarchism is also extremely paradoxial in that it's simply IMPOSSIBLE...
I am bored to death by your post.

Ever heard of the world-wide black markets? They've existed since time immemorial, they don't respect governments, don't acknowledge state borders, disregard state laws, laugh at 'intellectual property' rights, have millions of full time participants with up to 95% of transactions being voluntary and violence free, they have their own 'protection services,' hell, they even manufacture their own ID's, passports, etc....

If you're bored then don't read it. Most people (90 + percent) will abide by the law if government exists. So just becaues there are black markets, we should give up freedom because we can't limit it?

[EugenicHegemony]

XxMorningStarxX wrote: Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

Disagree completely, this guy, Korimyr the Rat, doesn't know what hell he's saying

[XxMorningStarxX]

EugenicHegemony wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote: Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

Disagree completely, this guy, Korimyr the Rat, doesn't know what hell he's saying

What the hell??

[BlackOps]

Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

WRONG! Other organizations capable of hiring armed men to secure their interests, are traders on the open market, trading value for value, without looting, terrorizing and murdering others. That is the domain of the government.

We are not all members of our government, even Groucho Marx wouldn't be one. You might be part of their process, perhaps as a pseudo- intellectual saboteur of freedom, but I and millions like me, do not wish to associate with criminals and murderers, in the "process" of their abusive, coercive and murderous decision making.

Perpetually defending the un defendable, is an intellectual con game, to say the least..... and we read you loud and clear!

[NobleOne]

XxMorningStarxX wrote: NobleOne wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote: Ever heard of anarchism?? That's what happens when you have absolute freedom in its pure and unadulterated form. hmm.. now why does anarchism NOT work- because with freedom from law, there would be no societal development, and thus your personal freedom would actually drop, because though, lawfully, what you can do is basically limitless, you will have nothing to do.. at all!!! because society + government would not exist!! You would essentially be bored to death...

Anarchism is also extremely paradoxial in that it's simply IMPOSSIBLE...
I am bored to death by your post.

Ever heard of the world-wide black markets? They've existed since time immemorial, they don't respect governments, don't acknowledge state borders, disregard state laws, laugh at 'intellectual property' rights, have millions of full time participants with up to 95% of transactions being voluntary and violence free, they have their own 'protection services,' hell, they even manufacture their own ID's, passports, etc....

If you're bored then don't read it. Most people (90 + percent) will abide by the law if government exists. So just becaues there are black markets, we should give up freedom because we can't limit it?
Fortunately the law of supply and demand is stronger than most "black laws".

[BlackOps]

XxMorningStarxX wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote: Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

Disagree completely, this guy, Korimyr the Rat, doesn't know what hell he's saying


What the hell??

Disagree completely, this guy, Korimyr the Rat, doesn't know what hell he's saying[/quote][/quote]
:lol:

[ieatfood]

We protect freedom by limiting it all the time. Before you go on a plane, you are searched. Your bags are xrayed and all that. That limits your freedom. However, it also makes plane travel possible, which makes you more free cause you can fly about the country.


Duh

[BlackOps]

ieatfood wrote: We protect freedom by limiting it all the time. Before you go on a plane, you are searched. Your bags are xrayed and all that. That limits your freedom. However, it also makes plane travel possible, which makes you more free cause you can fly about the country.


Duh

:roll:

Listen Homer,

Go play in the traffic....... and don't forget the beer...... later, in hospital, you can re read the thread....... a few hundred times.....till the penny drops....... if at all........

Wishing you a speedy recovery......

PS. Oh, and take your conceptual twin brother, XxMorningStarxX, with you..... otherwise, he will miss your penetrating and profound analysis...

[EugenicHegemony]

BlackOps wrote: Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

WRONG! Other organizations capable of hiring armed men to secure their interests, are traders on the open market, trading value for value, without looting, terrorizing and murdering others. That is the domain of the government.

We are not all members of our government, even Groucho Marx wouldn't be one. You might be part of their process, perhaps as a pseudo- intellectual saboteur of freedom, but I and millions like me, do not wish to associate with criminals and murderers, in the "process" of their abusive, coercive and murderous decision making.

Perpetually defending the un defendable, is an intellectual con game, to say the least..... and we read you loud and clear!

He changed his mind BlackOps. :lol:

Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to steal for itself, and it's special interests-- except for the fact that we are all slaves of our government and deluded into thinking we take part in the process by which this jingoist government makes all the decisions.

I couldn't address your Involuntary Servitude thread because I'm in willful delusional denial, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

OK :wink:Wanna help me kick some National Socialist Neo Con/Neo Lib ass?

[XxMorningStarxX]

EugenicHegemony wrote: BlackOps wrote: Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

WRONG! Other organizations capable of hiring armed men to secure their interests, are traders on the open market, trading value for value, without looting, terrorizing and murdering others. That is the domain of the government.

We are not all members of our government, even Groucho Marx wouldn't be one. You might be part of their process, perhaps as a pseudo- intellectual saboteur of freedom, but I and millions like me, do not wish to associate with criminals and murderers, in the "process" of their abusive, coercive and murderous decision making.

Perpetually defending the un defendable, is an intellectual con game, to say the least..... and we read you loud and clear!

He changed his mind BlackOps. :lol:

Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to steal for itself, and it's special interests-- except for the fact that we are all slaves of our government and deluded into thinking we take part in the process by which this jingoist government makes all the decisions.

I couldn't address your Involuntary Servitude thread because I'm in willful delusional denial, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

OK :wink:

I take back my previous comment- i did not see the original post

[BlackOps]

EugenicHegemony wrote: BlackOps wrote: Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

WRONG! Other organizations capable of hiring armed men to secure their interests, are traders on the open market, trading value for value, without looting, terrorizing and murdering others. That is the domain of the government.

We are not all members of our government, even Groucho Marx wouldn't be one. You might be part of their process, perhaps as a pseudo- intellectual saboteur of freedom, but I and millions like me, do not wish to associate with criminals and murderers, in the "process" of their abusive, coercive and murderous decision making.

Perpetually defending the un defendable, is an intellectual con game, to say the least..... and we read you loud and clear!

He changed his mind BlackOps. :lol:

Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to steal for itself, and it's special interests-- except for the fact that we are all slaves of our government and deluded into thinking we take part in the process by which this jingoist government makes all the decisions.

I couldn't address your Involuntary Servitude thread because I'm in willful delusional denial, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

OK :wink:Wanna help me kick some National Socialist Neo Con/Neo Lib ass?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[BlackOps]

XxMorningStarxX wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: BlackOps wrote: Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to secure its interests-- except for the fact that we are all members of our government and allowed to take part in the process by which our government makes decisions.

I have already addressed your anti-tax nonsense elsewhere, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

WRONG! Other organizations capable of hiring armed men to secure their interests, are traders on the open market, trading value for value, without looting, terrorizing and murdering others. That is the domain of the government.

We are not all members of our government, even Groucho Marx wouldn't be one. You might be part of their process, perhaps as a pseudo- intellectual saboteur of freedom, but I and millions like me, do not wish to associate with criminals and murderers, in the "process" of their abusive, coercive and murderous decision making.

Perpetually defending the un defendable, is an intellectual con game, to say the least..... and we read you loud and clear!

He changed his mind BlackOps. :lol:

Korimyr the Rat wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: The only one's who must be kept on a leash, is your government.

The government is no different than any other organization which is capable of hiring armed men to steal for itself, and it's special interests-- except for the fact that we are all slaves of our government and deluded into thinking we take part in the process by which this jingoist government makes all the decisions.

I couldn't address your Involuntary Servitude thread because I'm in willful delusional denial, and I have no interest in dignifying it with another response.

OK :wink:

I take back my previous comment- i did not see the original post

Welcome back!

I trust you left 'ieatfood' in safe hands and under strict 24/7 observation. Hopefully, he'll be OK in the long run..... :-D