Political Crossfire Forums

[Saracen]

In light of this topic, I would first like to say As salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

This is a fatwa issued by the European Council for Fatwa and Research, by none other than Sheikh Yusuf Al Qardawi.

Al Qardawi, in response to a question about abortion, wrote: In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, thanks a lot for your interesting question, which reflects your deep belief in the fact that Islam has answers for every problem facing mankind. Our utmost wish is just for all of us to adhere to the teachings of this great religion which came to save mankind from the peril of succumbing to the material life, to rescue them from darkness of following whims and self-inclinations to the light of guidance and eternal prosperity.

As regards your question, following is what the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states in his well-known book, The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam:

“While Islam permits preventing pregnancy for valid reasons, it does not allow doing violence to it once it occurs.

Muslim jurists have agreed unanimously that after the fetus is completely formed and has been given a soul, abortion is haram. It is also a crime, the commission of which is prohibited to the Muslim because it constitutes an offense against a complete, living human being. Jurists insist that the payment of blood money (diya) becomes incumbent if the baby is aborted alive and then died, while a fine of lesser amount is to be paid if it is aborted dead.

However, there is one exceptional situation. If, say the jurists, after the baby is completely formed, it is reliably shown that the continuation of the pregnancy would necessarily result in the death of the mother, then, in accordance with the general principle of the Shari`ah, that of choosing the lesser of two evils, abortion must be performed. The reason for this is that the mother is the origin of the fetus; moreover, her life is well-established, with duties and responsibilities, and she is also a pillar of the family. It would not be possible to sacrifice her life for the life of a fetus which has not yet acquired a personality and which has no responsibilities or obligations to fulfill.

Imam al-Ghazzali makes a clear distinction between contraception and abortion, saying that contraception is not like abortion. Abortion is a crime against an existing being. It follows from this that there are stages of existence. The first stages of existence are the settling of the semen in the womb and its mixing with the secretions of the woman. Then come the next gestational stage. Disturbing the pregnancy at this stage is a crime. When it develops further and becomes a lump, aborting it is a greater crime. When it acquires a soul and its creation is completed, the crime becomes more grievous. The crime reaches a maximum seriousness when it is committed after it (the fetus) is separated (from the mother) alive.”

I've also heard from somewhere that women who have been raped and got pregnant after that can also abort if they wish, but I'm not entirely sure on this issue. Brothers and sisters, I need your help.

[Xenophen]

Very Interesting my friend. I myself am a born again Christian and find this very...good to an extend that the Muslims view abortion is wrong. However, I would look the Koran over yourself and if you want the Bible to see the truth about abortion completely.

[Saracen]

Xenophen wrote: Very Interesting my friend. I myself am a born again Christian and find this very...good to an extend that the Muslims view abortion is wrong. However, I would look the Koran over yourself and if you want the Bible to see the truth about abortion completely.

I know that, but the Koran and Hadith (sayings of the Prophet (PBUH)) are both used in determining the legitimacy of such an issue.

I would like to hear Glorfindel on this issue. He knows more about it than me.

[Saracen]

How about you guys? What do you think on the issue of abortion?

[Dagger]

Its a situation by Situation topic.

But overall its wrong.

Then again I am all behind a rape victem getting a abortion. Can you imagine raising a child you know if a result of you being raped. It would be a daily reminder of the rape. And thats just one of the problems.

ALso if your going to get an abortion, get it as early as poissble.

[Muslima]

i think it is wrong to the extent that no two could argue about it.

it is as simple as killing a human being!

it also wrong and against the sharia to make oneself infertile (now a days there are operations for it)

[Dagger]

Muslima wrote: i think it is wrong to the extent that no two could argue about it.

it is as simple as killing a human being!

it also wrong and against the sharia to make oneself infertile (now a days there are operations for it)

Well yes its wrong....


But you must think of the life of the mother to be. its completely ruined. Many cant provie for the child...


Situatuion.
You get raped. Your pregnet. You cant support the baby if its born. You still a young teen.

What you going to do. yes its wornmg to get an aboirtion.... but what alternative do you have...?


Well maybe adoption... But do you know what i mean muslima...

[Saracen]

I did some research and managed to get an opinion, so this is what I pulled:

On the individual basis, though, I oppose abortion to some degree. I'm not going to blurt right out and say that abortionists are murderers, but the act itself is a denial of the right of a fetus to life. On the other hand, I support abortion in cases when the mother is sick to the degree that she can not support the fetus, or sick to the degree that the fetus might kill her. Pertaining to one of the well-known Islamic scholars, Yusuf al Qardawi, here is a part of his fatwa:

Yusuf al Qardawi wrote: Muslim jurists have agreed unanimously that after the fetus is completely formed and has been given a soul, abortion is haram. It is also a crime, the commission of which is prohibited to the Muslim because it constitutes an offense against a complete, living human being. Jurists insist that the payment of blood money (diya) becomes incumbent if the baby is aborted alive and then died, while a fine of lesser amount is to be paid if it is aborted dead.

However, there is one exceptional situation. If, say the jurists, after the baby is completely formed, it is reliably shown that the continuation of the pregnancy would necessarily result in the death of the mother, then, in accordance with the general principle of the Shari`ah, that of choosing the lesser of two evils, abortion must be performed. The reason for this is that the mother is the origin of the fetus; moreover, her life is well-established, with duties and responsibilities, and she is also a pillar of the family. It would not be possible to sacrifice her life for the life of a fetus which has not yet acquired a personality and which has no responsibilities or obligations to fulfill.

I bolded the parts that are to be considered. Here is another interesting link I pulled up:

European Council for Fatwa and Research wrote: First of all, it is to be stated that Islam forbids abortion in all stages of pregnancy. When the pregnancy reaches 120 days old, abortion becomes totally forbidden and is deemed a form of murder that results in compensation becoming liable. If abortion is done prior to this period, no compensation is liable but one should ask forgiveness and promise never to commit it again. In addition, it is highly recommended to do much righteous deeds such as giving in charity, etc.

Note the pregnancy date. When the fetus is four months old, its form is not only more human-like, but this is generally the age where the fetus starts swimming in the womb of the mother (i.e. the baby is "alive"). In that case, abortion is permissible prior to the fouth month of pregnancy, as pertaining to the above rules.

However, if the mother is sick, has AIDS, has multiple embryos with some of them lacking full function (i.e. damaged), or has been raped, then an abortion is permissible. I agree with this 100%. On the other hand, as a religious person, I don't see anything good come out of people who abort their fetuses after four months.

[lucidnightmare]

I think it's likely wrong,if not completely a life it is a potential life and people need to be more responsible if they do not want to get pregnant.

That doesn't mean I think it should be illegal though,because I don't think that making it illegal would stop it.The abortion pill RU486 would flow into this country and to the black market at an unstoppable rate,we can't stop drugs that are illegal in most nations from getting here,we could never stop one that is legal in so many.

[nrhy]

Quote: In light of this topic, I would first like to say As salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

always entering with style eh?


Quote: think it's likely wrong,if not completely a life it is a potential life and people need to be more responsible if they do not want to get pregnant.

That doesn't mean I think it should be illegal though,because I don't think that making it illegal would stop it.The abortion pill RU486 would flow into this country and to the black market at an unstoppable rate,we can't stop drugs that are illegal in most nations from getting here,we could never stop one that is legal in so many.

abortion should be legal to a certain extent...But still, if ever needed, it must be performed before 4 months (as saracen pointed out, before "living" stage).

[logic-rules]

Dagger wrote: Its a situation by Situation topic.

But overall its wrong.

Then again I am all behind a rape victem getting a abortion. Can you imagine raising a child you know if a result of you being raped. It would be a daily reminder of the rape. And thats just one of the problems.

ALso if your going to get an abortion, get it as early as poissble.


not saying i agree, but an argument against having an abortion after being raped is that the child should not be punished because they did nothing wrong.

[Saracen]

logic-rules wrote: not saying i agree, but an argument against having an abortion after being raped is that the child should not be punished because they did nothing wrong.

Ouch. Good point. :?

[cap'n queasy]

I do not see the value in trying to reconcile Islam with the view that it is ok to kill your own children. Is it to align this major religion with prevailing values among a large political group in the West that might possibly benefit the Islamic cause there? If so this is political, and thus a case of moral relativism.

Because all abortion is when you get right down to it, is infanticide.

I am not the greatest fan of Islam on this earth, but if Islam sees infanticide as wrong, that is one more thing I can agree with Islam about.

[Saracen]

cap'n queasy wrote: I do not see the value in trying to reconcile Islam with the view that it is ok to kill your own children. Is it to align this major religion with prevailing values among a large political group in the West that might possibly benefit the Islamic cause there? If so this is political, and thus a case of moral relativism.

Because all abortion is when you get right down to it, is infanticide.

I am not the greatest fan of Islam on this earth, but if Islam sees infanticide as wrong, that is one more thing I can agree with Islam about.

I know you're not the greatest fan of Islam, but Islam is definitely a fan of you:

God wrote: [22:17] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associate (others with Allah)-- surely Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection; surely Allah is a witness over all things.

[5:69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

[2:62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

Oh, yeah, and you'll be surprised that Christianity and Islam have a lot in common with each other. Abortion is infanticide.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: Abortion is infanticide.

Then why seek to reconcile it with certain political ideologies? I don't have much respect for Christians who do this either.

Some things you just don't compromise on. Like killing children.

[Saracen]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Abortion is infanticide.

Then why seek to reconcile it with certain political ideologies? I don't have much respect for Christians who do this either.

What are you talking about? Abortion is restricted in Islam. Many conservative Muslims forbid it in all cases, and to their extent I can agree with. However, considering that there are many Christians and Jews who abort, it evens it out.

cap'n queasy wrote: Some things you just don't compromise on. Like killing children.

We do not believe in killing children.

[cap'n queasy]

Nevermind.

You don't see what I am getting at.

[Saracen]

cap'n queasy wrote: Nevermind.

You don't see what I am getting at.

I think I know what you're talking about. You think that Islam is sucking up to liberalism or socialism?

:koo:

Thanks for the laugh, as usual. I know, you said it yourself in that "Chomsky vs. Mein Kampf" thread.

Cap'n, try to keep the things that unite us between us, and forget about the falsehoods made by the western media that divide us.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: You think that Islam is sucking up to liberalism or socialism?


Socialism specifically. I find it interesting that many radical Islamic groups have deep socialist roots. Take a look at a person named George Habash, for example. There are many, many more, as well.

Quote: Cap'n, try to keep the things that unite us between us, and forget about the falsehoods made by the western media that divide us.

Yes, let's concentrate on that.

I'm more worried about falsehoods that come from Islamic promoters and sympathizers of terrorism with leftist tendencies, like the idea that you are tentively broaching that Islam may somehow allow abortion. That's a wedge issue between Islamic socialists and western socialists and you are trying to run damage control on it to cement their bonds.

I'm just wondering if all of Islam are desperate enough to sell out their religious beliefs to garner support among Western infidels.

Or in other words, is it really the stricter Islamics that are the terrorists and bad people, or is it the Islamic factions that are based on socialist and other ideologies that originate in western secular societies who are the bad people?

I think it is the strict followers who are really the good people. Rather than what you sometimes hear on western leftist media, which is that the strict followers of Islam who are the ones who want to attack us. I think it is really Western socialists and Middle Eastern socialists coming together to attack the economic system that rightfully is the main one on the planet.
Many of these folks are like you, and seem to be a little ignorant of certain Islamic precepts at times.

I guess the question I want to ask is; Which is the real Islam?

The one that really believes their values and always follows them, who we never hear from in the West or the one that compromises their values for political gain and we hear from all time on the media?

[Saracen]

I've opened a new thread so we can discuss this, and it's here in the Islam section. You're welcome to bring in accomplices for debate.