Political Crossfire Forums

[Saracen]

Well, either way, he did do a lot of stereotyping and oversimplification, both of which at the same time do not constitute good arguments.

[Marcfj]

XPhile2868 wrote: what the Nazis did was so heinous and undefendable that his crime was the lesser of the two.

That is completely irrelevant! There is absolutely no excuse for the deliberate murder of innocent people and there is absolutely no excuse for Israel's refusal to turn Solomon Morel over to Polish authorities so that he may be brought to trial for his alleged crimes.

Personally, I have lost a great deal of respect for the Israelis as it is quite evident by their actions that they have a double standard of justice.

[sherborne]

Marcfj wrote: XPhile2868 wrote: what the Nazis did was so heinous and undefendable that his crime was the lesser of the two.

That is completely irrelevant! There is absolutely no excuse for the deliberate murder of innocent people and there is absolutely no excuse for Israel's refusal to turn Solomon Morel over to Polish authorities so that he may be brought to trial for his alleged crimes.

Personally, I have lost a great deal of respect for the Israelis as it is quite evident by their actions that they have a double standard of justice.

:clap:

[Non Partisan]

sherborne wrote: Daniel Goldhagens book Hitlers Willing executions is, in my opinion at least, the biggest pile of rubbish ever written. I dont know why he has recieved such acclaim for a book that stereotypes beyond belief. In his effort to try and prove that Germans were anti-semitic, he has mass sterotyped across society. Am i the only one who found this book a little difficult to swallow. It was almost like reading the Jewish version of Mein Kampf.

either they followed orders or they died. kill or be killed.

[sherborne]

Non Partisan wrote: sherborne wrote: Daniel Goldhagens book Hitlers Willing executions is, in my opinion at least, the biggest pile of rubbish ever written. I dont know why he has recieved such acclaim for a book that stereotypes beyond belief. In his effort to try and prove that Germans were anti-semitic, he has mass sterotyped across society. Am i the only one who found this book a little difficult to swallow. It was almost like reading the Jewish version of Mein Kampf.

either they followed orders or they died. kill or be killed.

Rubbish. There is no report of any person who refused to kill Jews being killed for disobeying orders. Granted you may not have had such a successfull career if you refused to participate but you certainly wouldnt be killed.

[mr crunchy]

outside of rotterdam not too many people stepped up and helped europes jews
in fact eastern europe participated in the slaughter rather willingly

ukraine,lativans lithuanians etc... all collaborated with the nazis as did many many french and dutch

[venator]

mr crunchy wrote: outside of rotterdam not too many people stepped up and helped europes jews
in fact eastern europe participated in the slaughter rather willingly

ukraine,lativans lithuanians etc... all collaborated with the nazis as did many many french and dutch

1. Not all Eastern European countries collaborated with the Germans (e.g. Poles and Czechs). The Polish underground for instance helped Jews through its special wing Zegota - saving thousands of lives...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBegota

2. Of those countries that did collaborate - they did so in fear of Soviet Russia and in hope that by helping Nazi Germany, Germany would in turn safeguard their independance.

3. But of course it is true - some ethnic groups were more assisting to the Germans than others (e.g. Ukrainians, Balts, Hungarians).

:-|

[plum]

Don't most historians generally disagree with his thesis, and question his research too?

As I understand it, his book is in contrast with the mainstream.

[sherborne]

plum wrote: Don't most historians generally disagree with his thesis, and question his research too?

As I understand it, his book is in contrast with the mainstream.

It is indeed. Most historians have rejected his thesis. Yet the post was put as such because he has recieved world wide acclaim. Acclaim which i feel is mis placed.

[to_frankie]

Marcfj wrote: Solomon Morel, faces charges of crimes against humanity in relation to more than 1,500 inmates at a camp in southern Poland.


Monday, January 3, 2005



Elderly Jewish man accused of postwar revenge rampage

By Inigo Gilmore in Jerusalem and Michael Leidig in Vienna

POLAND is demanding the extradition from Israel of an elderly Jewish man accused of the deaths of hundreds of Germans in a postwar detention camp.

Solomon Morel, 86, faces charges of crimes against humanity in relation to more than 1,500 inmates at a camp in southern Poland, many of whom perished in "barbaric" circumstances.

The investigation is the first in Poland into a Jew accused of retaliating against the Germans, and poses potentially awkward questions for Israel about its attitude towards those allegedly involved in revenge killings. Israeli officials turned down a previous extradition request six years ago.

Morel, who fled to Israel from Poland in 1994 and lives in hiding in Tel Aviv, was held in Auschwitz as a young man. More than 30 members of his family were killed by the Nazis.
In November 1945, after the Soviet occupation of Poland began, he was one of many Jews appointed by Stalin to supervise the brutal denazification camps, where up to 80,000 ethnic Germans are believed to have died as a result of torture, starvation and typhus. Stalin picked Jews as camp commandants knowing they would show little mercy to the inmates.

According to John Sack, (right, a guest speaker at Real History, Cincinnati) the late author of An Eye for An Eye: The Untold Story of Jewish Revenge Against Germans in 1945, Morel made his desire for revenge clear from the day the camp at Swietochlowice opened.

In a television interview before his death last year, Sack said:

"On the first night at Swietochlowice, when the first contingent of Germans arrived, at about 10 o'clock at night he walked into one of the barracks and he said to the Germans, 'My name is Morel. I am a Jew. My mother and father, my family, I think they're all dead, and I swore that if I got out alive, I was going to get back at you Nazis. And now you're going to pay for what you did.' "
In his book, Sack, himself a Jew, describes in detail the alleged atrocities committed at the camp: "The guards put the Germans into a doghouse, beating them if they didn't say 'bow-wow'. They got the Germans to beat each other; to jump on each other's spines and to punch each other's noses, and hit the Germans so hard that they once knocked a German's glass eye out."

Guards also raped German women and trained dogs to bite off German men's genitals on command, Sack said.

The Israeli Justice Ministry said it was "in the process of examining" the extradition request


I do understand this mans anger and actions too a certain level yet, Israel must not allow this case to become precedent. They must say a war crime is a war crime even if i understand the mans actions to a degree.

[DD7]

I'm sure east "europeans" are quite grafeful for removing a social problem. Although they're still pissed that the Nazi failed to remove all the gypsies.