Political Crossfire Forums

[The_Right_Honourable]

Moath wrote: Muslima wrote: you see the problem is that we, muslims who truly want some changes in this world, are trying to change the radically minded people first!

a few months ago i did a research about them, and believe you don't want to deal with them!

Definitely. We're trying to do our part, but that role is being silenced by the continuous lies of the media, stating that we're not doing anything about it.

I rely on the media. And i know how to filter their bias.

I know their are Muslims who act responsively and understand why the reaction of the radicals is unacceptable.

BUT we don't see Muslim leaders taking a stand. You do not have to be pro west to be anti violence.

And how can the authorities allow this lawlessness? Freedom to burn, threat and rant?

[Saracen]

TRH wrote: And how can the authorities allow this lawlessness? Freedom to burn, threat and rant?

Come on. You know as well as I do that these protestors were attacked by the police, but the police were unable to filter them off... in all countries where the embassies were set on fire, that is.

[The_Right_Honourable]

Moath wrote: TRH wrote: And how can the authorities allow this lawlessness? Freedom to burn, threat and rant?

Come on. You know as well as I do that these protestors were attacked by the police, but the police were unable to filter them off... in all countries where the embassies were set on fire, that is.

So they cant even protect embassies from criminals? Thats a really encouaging sign. And it seems that Hizb ut-Tahrir wrote those placards...

[combatbaby]

These extreme muslim protesters are insisting that the whole world follows their values even in non secular societies like Denmark. And they are hypocritical--especially when they depict satirical cartoons against Christianity and Judiasm. Furthermore, these cartoons are no where near as offensive as all the terrorist acts committed in the name of Islam... acts that happen nearly every day. And now these extremists are threatening more terrorism?! Denmark et al. should not apologize--that would be proving their insolent and inappropriate behavior as effective. Western democracies can and must have the freedom of expression.

[Saracen]

TRH wrote: So they cant even protect embassies from criminals? Thats a really encouaging sign. And it seems that Hizb ut-Tahrir wrote those placards...

HizbutTahrir are a bunch of radicals, but I dunno about that.

combatbaby wrote:
These extreme muslim protesters are insisting that the whole world follows their values even in non secular societies like Denmark. And they are hypocritical--especially when they depict satirical cartoons against Christianity and Judiasm. Furthermore, these cartoons are no where near as offensive as all the terrorist acts committed in the name of Islam... acts that happen nearly every day. And now these extremists are threatening more terrorism?! Denmark et al. should not apologize--that would be proving their insolent and inappropriate behavior as effective. Western democracies can and must have the freedom of expression.

But that's the problem: Muslims don't depict anything against Judaism and Christianity. There are so many anti-Islamic materials in Western media that I can see the double standard when there rarely is an anti-Semitic or anti-Christian cartoon. We Muslims are very respectable towards Jews and Christians, and we would never depict them in such a way. It's not freedom of expression that is being attacked here, but bad taste under the pretext of freedom of expression.

[combatbaby]

Moath wrote:
But that's the problem: Muslims don't depict anything against Judaism and Christianity. There are so many anti-Islamic materials in Western media that I can see the double standard when there rarely is an anti-Semitic or anti-Christian cartoon. We Muslims are very respectable towards Jews and Christians, and we would never depict them in such a way. It's not freedom of expression that is being attacked here, but bad taste under the pretext of freedom of expression.

Oh really?
http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/asam_july_dec_intro_2005.htm
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm

That is just a small sample!

[Saracen]

combatbaby wrote: Moath wrote:
But that's the problem: Muslims don't depict anything against Judaism and Christianity. There are so many anti-Islamic materials in Western media that I can see the double standard when there rarely is an anti-Semitic or anti-Christian cartoon. We Muslims are very respectable towards Jews and Christians, and we would never depict them in such a way. It's not freedom of expression that is being attacked here, but bad taste under the pretext of freedom of expression.

Oh really?
http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/asam_july_dec_intro_2005.htm
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm

That is just a small sample!

So anti-Israeli sentiments are now anti-Semitic?

[combatbaby]

Moath wrote:
So anti-Israeli sentiments are now anti-Semitic?

Well knowing that over 3/4 of Israel is Jewish--it is pretty clear that those Arab newspapers were targeting the main religion of Israel and linking it to their "unfair" foreign policy. Also, you cannot deny that there is widespread anti-Semitism in Arab media. Some of it is anti-Israeli, some are anti-Semitic.

[Saracen]

combatbaby wrote: Well knowing that over 3/4 of Israel is Jewish--it is pretty clear that those Arab newspapers were targeting the main religion of Israel and linking it to their "unfair" foreign policy. Also, you cannot deny that there is widespread anti-Semitism in Arab media. Some of it is anti-Israeli, some are anti-Semitic.

Well, it's probably unintentionally anti-Semitic. Arabs don't hate Jews, but Israel. It's just that many Arabs haven't been exposed to the outside world that Jews and Israelis seem to mean one and the same thing in the media.

[Orions]

Not to mention the same thing in the western media, linking muslims to terrorists. Sadly the only safe thing to say is that noone is innocent.

But htere is one good point raised here: in the west usually when a group of individuals commits something atrocious, the officials deny any connection of these individuals with the general opinion. Yes i know that sometimes it may be hypocritical, but nevertheless it is reassuring. Now, i didn't hear any Arab leader cutting himself away from the radicals preaching destruction after the cartoon printing. of course that may because the western media wouldn't show a liberal and peaceful Arab leader... it makes no good news... who nows?

[Showboat]

Quote: Western democracies can and must have the freedom of expression.

So how come when that President of Iran says that the Holocaust didn't happen or Israel should be wiped off the map (Comments I believe are wrong) he got done for it. In Germany and Austria you get locked up for denying the Hollocaust. Where's the freedom of speech and expression there? I think a lot of Muslims see the hypocracy and double standards and get pissed off. You say a bad thing about Israel and your an evil Nazi who should be locked up, you make an attack on Islam and "What's everyone complaining about, eh? Freedom of speech"

Is it really that hard not to insult people?

Freedom of speech and expression can only go so far.

[combatbaby]

Of course there are limits on the freedom of expression. For example, you can't commit acts of terrorism as an outlet for hate.

combatbaby wrote: Furthermore, these cartoons are no where near as offensive as all the terrorist acts committed in the name of Islam... acts that happen nearly every day.

[Saracen]

Showboat wrote: Quote: Western democracies can and must have the freedom of expression.

So how come when that President of Iran says that the Holocaust didn't happen or Israel should be wiped off the map (Comments I believe are wrong) he got done for it. In Germany and Austria you get locked up for denying the Hollocaust. Where's the freedom of speech and expression there? I think a lot of Muslims see the hypocracy and double standards and get pissed off. You say a bad thing about Israel and your an evil Nazi who should be locked up, you make an attack on Islam and "What's everyone complaining about, eh? Freedom of speech"

Is it really that hard not to insult people?

Freedom of speech and expression can only go so far.

Showboat, you have seen the light! :-D

combatbaby wrote: Of course there are limits on the freedom of expression. For example, you can't commit acts of terrorism as an outlet for hate.

The outrage came as an extreme disrespect towards Muslims throughout Europe, not just from this cartoon. France was a shining example in this issue when it prohibited the use of the Hijab.

[The_Right_Honourable]

Moath wrote: Showboat wrote: Quote: Western democracies can and must have the freedom of expression.

So how come when that President of Iran says that the Holocaust didn't happen or Israel should be wiped off the map (Comments I believe are wrong) he got done for it. In Germany and Austria you get locked up for denying the Hollocaust. Where's the freedom of speech and expression there? I think a lot of Muslims see the hypocracy and double standards and get pissed off. You say a bad thing about Israel and your an evil Nazi who should be locked up, you make an attack on Islam and "What's everyone complaining about, eh? Freedom of speech"

Is it really that hard not to insult people?

Freedom of speech and expression can only go so far.

Showboat, you have seen the light! :-D

combatbaby wrote: Of course there are limits on the freedom of expression. For example, you can't commit acts of terrorism as an outlet for hate.

The outrage came as an extreme disrespect towards Muslims throughout Europe, not just from this cartoon. France was a shining example in this issue when it prohibited the use of the Hijab.

They ban all religious symbols, they just refused to make Muslims an exception which would discriminate against chritians and jews!

AND the West does not constantly spount anti-islamic messages. Everyone tv station and paper shows the radical over reaction and then says that its not the views of most normal muslims.

I don't see the anti-islamic predudice and/or propaganda that many muslims acuse the West of! What i do see is muslims on the streets at every little snub burning flags and images and calling for death.

I understand it. I cannot accept it.

[Saracen]

Maybe you see it because you don't realize it.

[jeechoscopy]

How hatred works check it out...



http://newstandardnews.net/content/ion/index.cfm/days/2006-02-06


Provoking was planned... don't you think?

[combatbaby]

jeechoscopy wrote: How hatred works check it out...

http://newstandardnews.net/content/ion/index.cfm/days/2006-02-06

Provoking was planned... don't you think?

No, I think all this chaos was bound to happen soon, things have been quite tense between the Western World and the Islamic World. and it seems like these cartoons just provided a good excuse to murder and riot for everything "bad" the western world has done.

[The_Right_Honourable]

combatbaby wrote: jeechoscopy wrote: How hatred works check it out...

http://newstandardnews.net/content/ion/index.cfm/days/2006-02-06

Provoking was planned... don't you think?

No, I think all this chaos was bound to happen soon, things have been quite tense between the Western World and the Islamic World. and it seems like these cartoons just provided a good excuse to murder and riot for everything "bad" the western world has done.

I agree. The West gets blamed alot by Muslims for internal problems like corruption or bad leadership. Of course the US has done alot of stupid things and the West isnt totally innocent.

BUT i do not see what justifies Muslim behaviour.

I dont - and nor do my frineds - hate Muslims. I dont give in to predjudice and stereotyping. But it seems like many Muslims do, perhaps its not there fault but... its still true.

[jeechoscopy]

The_Right_Honourable wrote: combatbaby wrote: jeechoscopy wrote: How hatred works check it out...

http://newstandardnews.net/content/ion/index.cfm/days/2006-02-06

Provoking was planned... don't you think?

No, I think all this chaos was bound to happen soon, things have been quite tense between the Western World and the Islamic World. and it seems like these cartoons just provided a good excuse to murder and riot for everything "bad" the western world has done.

I agree. The West gets blamed alot by Muslims for internal problems like corruption or bad leadership. Of course the US has done alot of stupid things and the West isnt totally innocent.

BUT i do not see what justifies Muslim behaviour.

I dont - and nor do my frineds - hate Muslims. I dont give in to predjudice and stereotyping. But it seems like many Muslims do, perhaps its not there fault but... its still true.

It’s quite a finding the ‘real wrong’ in situational world.

First, the differences have given so many excuses to ponder patrol on the fire.

Secondly, none of us have struggled to dismiss the gap. Even we both are going to expand more and more gap. Though, we don’t seem willing to give the gap gone, according to self-rights, but still tendering for.

[Zeeman]

It reads: Now you are insulting Islam..