Political Crossfire Forums

[John]

Skeptical Mystic wrote: John wrote: BTW....this is a debate forum. Prepare to have oposition. It's the WHOLE point. These section are not like little HQ's where only people who agree can talk.
There's a huge difference between disagreeing within the context of the debate and arguing with an entire group of people just because they're discussing a topic alien to your religious beliefs.

You're doing the latter, not the former. And that is a form of trolling.

The only "authority" I've quoted so far has been Anton LaVey...who had a thing or two to say about "sex magic"…which so happens to BE the subject. Dude you’re the biggest hypocrite I’ve ever run into. You constantly accuse people of doing what you yourself are doing more than they are.

Let me tell you something. I really don't care if you don't like me. But you're not going to intimidate me with threats

[John]

UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote:
Of course you can bring it up. But don't bring it up and then get mad that it got brought up.

I believe that practicing witchcraft will lead to a lot of trouble, something that people who are not Christians but have run into it will tell you too.


BTW....this is a debate forum. Prepare to have oposition. It's the WHOLE point. These section are not like little HQ's where only people who agree can talk.

There was never a complaint that Christianity was brought up. It was a complaint that, in a PAGAN forum, people were in here insulting Pagans, as if they were surprised that Pagan topics were being discussed.

You believe the Craft to be trouble, fine. There is no point in arguing who is right and wrong on that one.

Oh, and I am well aware of the concept of debate. I don't need a primer from you.

I haven't insulted anyone. Stating that I believe that you're playing with fire isn't an insult. Come on!

[F'losrix]

John wrote: Quote: What I said was that I would appeal to someone else's authority to remove you from our presence if you troll this forum. And be assured that if you persist, I will.

I want you to.
Just waiting for the moment when you put your toe over the line. I expect it won't be long.

[F'losrix]

John wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote:
Of course you can bring it up. But don't bring it up and then get mad that it got brought up.

I believe that practicing witchcraft will lead to a lot of trouble, something that people who are not Christians but have run into it will tell you too.


BTW....this is a debate forum. Prepare to have oposition. It's the WHOLE point. These section are not like little HQ's where only people who agree can talk.

There was never a complaint that Christianity was brought up. It was a complaint that, in a PAGAN forum, people were in here insulting Pagans, as if they were surprised that Pagan topics were being discussed.

You believe the Craft to be trouble, fine. There is no point in arguing who is right and wrong on that one.

Oh, and I am well aware of the concept of debate. I don't need a primer from you.

I haven't insulted anyone. Stating that I believe that you're playing with fire isn't an insult. Come on!
It very much is, in the context of a Christian debating a Pagan. And you know it.

[Enoch]

John wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote:
Of course you can bring it up. But don't bring it up and then get mad that it got brought up.

I believe that practicing witchcraft will lead to a lot of trouble, something that people who are not Christians but have run into it will tell you too.


BTW....this is a debate forum. Prepare to have oposition. It's the WHOLE point. These section are not like little HQ's where only people who agree can talk.

There was never a complaint that Christianity was brought up. It was a complaint that, in a PAGAN forum, people were in here insulting Pagans, as if they were surprised that Pagan topics were being discussed.

You believe the Craft to be trouble, fine. There is no point in arguing who is right and wrong on that one.

Oh, and I am well aware of the concept of debate. I don't need a primer from you.

I haven't insulted anyone. Stating that I believe that you're playing with fire isn't an insult. Come on!

It very much is an insult.

Would you not consider it insulting for a non-Christian to insult the bible, and say that it is nothing more than a great work of fiction?

[John]

UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote:
Of course you can bring it up. But don't bring it up and then get mad that it got brought up.

I believe that practicing witchcraft will lead to a lot of trouble, something that people who are not Christians but have run into it will tell you too.


BTW....this is a debate forum. Prepare to have oposition. It's the WHOLE point. These section are not like little HQ's where only people who agree can talk.

There was never a complaint that Christianity was brought up. It was a complaint that, in a PAGAN forum, people were in here insulting Pagans, as if they were surprised that Pagan topics were being discussed.

You believe the Craft to be trouble, fine. There is no point in arguing who is right and wrong on that one.

Oh, and I am well aware of the concept of debate. I don't need a primer from you.

I haven't insulted anyone. Stating that I believe that you're playing with fire isn't an insult. Come on!

It very much is an insult.

Would you not consider it insulting for a non-Christian to insult the bible, and say that it is nothing more than a great work of fiction?

It wouldn't be a personal insult. I don't think there's a thread in the Christian forum that doesn't have someone making this claim at least once.

You don't see me screaming about how insulted I am..

You see me defending the facts behind why it isn't a work of fiction.

[Enoch]

John wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote:
Of course you can bring it up. But don't bring it up and then get mad that it got brought up.

I believe that practicing witchcraft will lead to a lot of trouble, something that people who are not Christians but have run into it will tell you too.


BTW....this is a debate forum. Prepare to have oposition. It's the WHOLE point. These section are not like little HQ's where only people who agree can talk.

There was never a complaint that Christianity was brought up. It was a complaint that, in a PAGAN forum, people were in here insulting Pagans, as if they were surprised that Pagan topics were being discussed.

You believe the Craft to be trouble, fine. There is no point in arguing who is right and wrong on that one.

Oh, and I am well aware of the concept of debate. I don't need a primer from you.

I haven't insulted anyone. Stating that I believe that you're playing with fire isn't an insult. Come on!

It very much is an insult.

Would you not consider it insulting for a non-Christian to insult the bible, and say that it is nothing more than a great work of fiction?

It wouldn't be a personal insult. I don't think there's a thread in the Christian forum that doesn't have someone making this claim at least once.

You don't see me screaming about how insulted I am..

You see me defending the facts behind why it isn't a work of fiction.

Well, fact is a subjective term when it comes to religion.

[John]

Quote: Well, fact is a subjective term when it comes to religion.


Yeah..I guess so. That's why subjects like fulfilled prophecy and the such fascinate me so much. But I better not talk about it too much. S.Mystic is waiting for me to stick my toe over a line.

[Kt]

Hey, this forum does have an ignore function, if nothing else we can ignore them, as they seldom have anything really insightful to say anyways.

I am considering it.


SO....
Back to Sex Magic, personally I have never done something like this, has anyone else and is willing to share their experiences?
It is a curious subject and interests me somewhat.

[Enoch]

John wrote: Quote: Well, fact is a subjective term when it comes to religion.


Yeah..I guess so. That's why subjects like fulfilled prophecy and the such fascinate me so much. But I better not talk about it too much. S.Mystic is waiting for me to stick my toe over a line.

John,

While I can not do anything about the nature of some posts in the Christianity forum (those insulting the bible), I do ask that if you wish to discuss the topics in the Pagan forum, please do so. However, please refrain from denouncing our beliefs as it does nothing to serve the discussion.

Thank you.

[John]

UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote: Quote: Well, fact is a subjective term when it comes to religion.


Yeah..I guess so. That's why subjects like fulfilled prophecy and the such fascinate me so much. But I better not talk about it too much. S.Mystic is waiting for me to stick my toe over a line.

John,

While I can not do anything about the nature of some posts in the Christianity forum (those insulting the bible), I do ask that if you wish to discuss the topics in the Pagan forum, please do so. However, please refrain from denouncing our beliefs as it does nothing to serve the discussion.

Thank you.

So basically...Agree with me or shut up. :lol:

[Enoch]

John wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote: Quote: Well, fact is a subjective term when it comes to religion.


Yeah..I guess so. That's why subjects like fulfilled prophecy and the such fascinate me so much. But I better not talk about it too much. S.Mystic is waiting for me to stick my toe over a line.

John,

While I can not do anything about the nature of some posts in the Christianity forum (those insulting the bible), I do ask that if you wish to discuss the topics in the Pagan forum, please do so. However, please refrain from denouncing our beliefs as it does nothing to serve the discussion.

Thank you.

So basically...Agree with me or shut up. :lol:

Oh, nevermind. You don't get it.

[wormwood]

Wow this got volatile since I've been gone :lol:

John, and Christians...I will not ignore you, if you are here to throw down Pagan style, I say welcome. I debate Christianity with you guys all the time, it is only fair that I allow you to question me...just remember, that when we discuss Christianity even on the regular religion forum, I am willing to discuss it "within the confines of Christianity", I only ask that you give us the same respect here.

That having been said:

Quote: Jehovah is seen as the evil god, and Satan is often seen as the dissident, who values humanity enough to throw away everything else to help. Jehova treats people like his plaything, the biblical destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (originally from ancient sumerian texts, not the bible), the Flood (also originally an ancient sumerian myth), and other accounts of jehovah squelching any hint of free thought, or free culture. This is the Sumerian legend...someone has done their homework. Unlike someone suggested these names are not from the Coptic tradition, but are indeed Sumerian. In the Sumerian tales, ENKI the serpent, is the protagonist of man and the father of magic, he rebels against ENLIL his brother and the rightful heir to earth. I disagree with ENLIL being YHVH though, to me it makes more sense for ENLIL's father in the heavens, ANU to be the father in heaven, though many of ENLIL's actions are attributed to YHVH, the essence of the being seems to be ANU.

Oh and John...Anton LeVey is not the most reputable source on which to base your gross generalizations. Although he does make some interesting points, he was merely anti-catholic, and not the arcane master he made himself appear to be. Good research though, kudos on the content John.

[Kt]

wormwood wrote: Wow this got volatile since I've been gone :lol:

John, and Christians...I will not ignore you, if you are here to throw down Pagan style, I say welcome. I debate Christianity with you guys all the time, it is only fair that I allow you to question me...just remember, that when we discuss Christianity even on the regular religion forum, I am willing to discuss it "within the confines of Christianity", I only ask that you give us the same respect here.

That having been said:

Quote: Jehovah is seen as the evil god, and Satan is often seen as the dissident, who values humanity enough to throw away everything else to help. Jehova treats people like his plaything, the biblical destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (originally from ancient sumerian texts, not the bible), the Flood (also originally an ancient sumerian myth), and other accounts of jehovah squelching any hint of free thought, or free culture. This is the Sumerian legend...someone has done their homework. Unlike someone suggested these names are not from the Coptic tradition, but are indeed Sumerian. In the Sumerian tales, ENKI the serpent, is the protagonist of man and the father of magic, he rebels against ENLIL his brother and the rightful heir to earth. I disagree with ENLIL being YHVH though, to me it makes more sense for ENLIL's father in the heavens, ANU to be the father in heaven, though many of ENLIL's actions are attributed to YHVH, the essence of the being seems to be ANU.

::Feels genuinely impressed::
You know everything, don't you?
I sure hope that I never have to debate against you.

[John]

Quote: Oh and John...Anton LeVey is not the most reputable source on which to base your gross generalizations.

Did he not practice witchcraft?

[Enoch]

John wrote: Quote: Oh and John...Anton LeVey is not the most reputable source on which to base your gross generalizations.

Did he not practice witchcraft?

He may have practiced a form of Magick, but it was not the Witchcraft associated with Wicca.

[John]

UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote: Quote: Oh and John...Anton LeVey is not the most reputable source on which to base your gross generalizations.

Did he not practice witchcraft?

He may have practiced a form of Magick, but it was not the Witchcraft associated with Wicca.

If it's real...

Why do you think it would have a different source?

[Enoch]

John wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote: Quote: Oh and John...Anton LeVey is not the most reputable source on which to base your gross generalizations.

Did he not practice witchcraft?

He may have practiced a form of Magick, but it was not the Witchcraft associated with Wicca.

If it's real...

Why do you think it would have a different source?

It isn't really the source, but the ritual and method.

For example: Assume, for the sake of argument only, that all religions are worshipping the same God. The differences lie not in who they are worshipping, but how they are worshipping.

The same goes with Magick. The difference lies not in the Magick but in how one goes about performing it and to what goals.

(Perhaps my usage of "a form of Magick" was misleading)

[wormwood]

Quote: Did he not practice witchcraft? No. He practiced something that was the forerunner to Chaos magic. LeVey was an atheist, Witches are (usually) polytheists, pantheists, or monotheists. Admitedly, to an outside observer the difference is probably not as epic, but I will just say that that they are different. An interesting side note, LeVey's biography is a million times more interesting than any of his "formal" writings. He basically just hated catholicism, and the repression of religion, so he wanted to start a "religion" that was free from repression and actually encouraged self gratifying "sins" like the seven deadly sins for example. His knowledge of magic was elementary at best, but he did have a knowledge of ritual. Basically he was a charlatan, just for the sake of being a charlatan.

Quote: ::Feels genuinely impressed::
You know everything, don't you?
I sure hope that I never have to debate against you awww shucks :!oops:

LOL I wish I knew everything....I have just been studying religion for the past 10+ years. If you examine every religion in the world long enough, you can see how most came from the exact same place and traditions, just some cultures stress certain elements more than others. Studying this stuff will give you a love for humanity, even if it's grudging love :lol:

Like John, I respect him, though we get into heated debates, he has a love for his God, and faith that can not be shaken (sometimes even in the face of overwhelming evidence 8:) ). If I thought he was just another fanatic I would have ignored him long ago, but he is a good guy at his core...sometimes I genuinely believe he is concerned for my soul. He just lets his heart do the talking and it can be frustrating for some of us who try to argue with all noggin. That's just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[John]

UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: John wrote: Quote: Oh and John...Anton LeVey is not the most reputable source on which to base your gross generalizations.

Did he not practice witchcraft?

He may have practiced a form of Magick, but it was not the Witchcraft associated with Wicca.

If it's real...

Why do you think it would have a different source?

It isn't really the source, but the ritual and method.

For example: Assume, for the sake of argument only, that all religions are worshipping the same God. The differences lie not in who they are worshipping, but how they are worshipping.

The same goes with Magick. The difference lies not in the Magick but in how one goes about performing it and to what goals.

(Perhaps my usage of "a form of Magick" was misleading)


I understand that the rituals and methods are different. But do you deny that the source of this magic is the same? Doesn't it depend on a form of legalism...as in you gotta do this that and the other in order to get a certain type of result. Results that will pay off depending on the amount of effort put forth. A type of self salvation so to speak....