Political Crossfire Forums

[Sailor Moon]

I myself am fed up with being called a misogynist, anti choice, etc.. because I personally think that assisted abortion should be illegal, but I think that self induced miscarriage (some call it abortion- see #5) is now very safe, and should not be criminalized.. Obviously I dont want unborn humans to have the rights of born citizens, but at the same time I want assisted (unnatural) abortion to be illegal, to respect the natural right to life.

OK, I didnt want to make this a real board poll, cause I dont want to get faulty results:

So please answer these questions: Thanks!!

1- Do you believe that fetuses should have "citizenship" also known as "rights"?

If yes, at what point?

If no, please explain why.


2- Do you think that assisted abortion should be made illegal?


3- Are there any circumstances in which abortion should be legal?

If yes, what are the circumstances? In what setting should the abortion occur?

4- Do you think that self induced abortion (pay attention and read through the next questions, please) if achieved by the use of a foreign object being inserted into the vagina, should be legal or illegal? Why?

5- Do you think that self induced miscarriage (call it an abortion if you want) by riding a roller coaster, taking too much medication, the wrong medication, herbs, jumping off a diving board, etc, should be legal or illegal? Why?

[The Anarchist]

Since I'm not "pro-life" I won't answer most of the questions and mess up your results of your pole. But as for question 4, I think it should be strongly discouraged but not illegal.

Also there are a few pro-choice people who would say that abortion of fetuses (feti?) should be illegal. They would say that the abortion should occur before 8 weeks. I'm not one of them, but they could maybe give you some useful opinions on these questions also. :-D

[The Anarchist]

whoops! I forgot to answer why. I believe that up to a certain point the fetus shouldn't have rights that indicate that it has as much or more worth than the mother. I think that even a 40 year old adult if he/she doens't have a functioning brain is not of as much value as another person. So Even in that case I wouldn't say that given the choice of death for the vegetable vs. enslavement of another's body that death of the vegetable is the best choice. The fact that a fetus can perhaps develop a brain and the 40 year old cannot changes matter.... but only slightly. The fact is that up to a certain point it doens't have that value, and I think the woman should have the choice. It's kinda like deciding you don't want to have sex anymore in the middle of it. It's stopping the process that creates a human. In my opinion the humanness isn't there in an early fetus, and so abortion is just stopping a process just as stopping having unprotected sex is.

[Sailor Moon]

I didnt ask how much you value human life. In fact, I didnt ask for your opinion whatsoever, although I appreciate your input. This poll is not asking pro choicers how little they value human life. This poll is designed to set the record straight on the pro life stance. I can do a pro choice poll, much the same way you have in the`past, with ugly words, and all... I havent yet..

But I will.

[steen]

Sailor Moon wrote: because I personally think that assisted abortion should be illegal, but I think that self induced miscarriage (some call it abortion- see #5) is now very safe, and should not be criminalized.. Obviously I dont want unborn humans to have the rights of born citizens, but at the same time I want assisted (unnatural) abortion to be illegal, to respect the natural right to life. So there is only a "natural right to life" when a physician is inducing an abortion, but not when the woman self-induces?


That's really, REALLY nuts, sailormoon.

[Sailor Moon]

Steen, you really REALLY need to do a little research and stop trolling PCF..... Illegal abortion is was and always will be safer and better than legal abortion.

Just go to planned parenthoods risk page, and do some math homework. You'll see.

[The Grandmaster]

Sailor, I've heard you say no less than 20-30 times on these forums that illegal abortion, such that, abortion performed by regular people with no training...is more safe than legal abortion, or abortion performed by people with 8 years schooling, 3 years residency, and years of medical practice. Now forgive me if this seems a bit hard to digest. Am I refuting you? No. I don't have the information. I, quite simply, don't know. So I ask you this. Can you show us that Illegal Abortion, performed by regular people, is safer than abortion performed by specialists?

And before you say eating pineapples and driving over speedbumps...if it was so effective, why doesn't planned parenthood have a Pineapple Buffet inside and a car track outside, and save money on doctor salaries?

[Sailor Moon]

TheGrandmaster1 wrote: Sailor, I've heard you say no less than 20-30 times on these forums that illegal abortion, such that, abortion performed by regular people with no training...is more safe than legal abortion, or abortion performed by people with 8 years schooling, 3 years residency, and years of medical practice. Now forgive me if this seems a bit hard to digest. Am I refuting you? No. I don't have the information. I, quite simply, don't know. So I ask you this. Can you show us that Illegal Abortion, performed by regular people, is safer than abortion performed by specialists?

I didnt say surgical abortion is safe. I didnt say assisted abortion is safe. I am saying that if a woman wants to jump off a diving board, its reasonably safe to do, even if she has complications from it. We have antibiotics now. We dont have to worry so much about illegal abortion. Anyways, 90% of illegal surgical abortions WERE done by doctors, when it WAS illegal, so I really dont know what youre refuting.

Quote: And before you say eating pineapples and driving over speedbumps...if it was so effective, why doesn't planned parenthood have a Pineapple Buffet inside and a car track outside, and save money on doctor salaries?

If they had a pineapple buffet even ONCE, they would go out of business. Pineapples are not a controlled substance, and they are a hell of alot cheaper than paying someone to butcher your body.

Money talks. Planned Parenthood knows this. They are the biggest abortionists in the world. They are also the richest abortionists.

It IS effective. How do you explain that 30% of pregnancies end in miscarriage? Isnt that just a little less than before, when women rode in bumpy carriages, and rode horses all the time?

This is a very serious consideration, and I only request that you put a little research and thought into it. You want us to be open minded, and thats exactly what I am doing. I am also comforting you in the fact that despite the popular rhetoric that thousands of women will die if abortion is made illegal, its just not true.

Buy a book, even, on pregnancy. Buy a book to find out what to avoid while pregnant. Then, you will see the truth. You have to avoid roller coasters. You cant jump off diving boards. You cant fly in a plane, or go on long road trips, especially in the last trimester.

Its really easy to miscarry nowadays. I dont want women to miscarry, but the fact that it is so easy with all the new technology we have, really needs to be considered. How many women do you know or have you heard of who died from a miscarriage? :roll:

[steen]

And with that pro-life post, Pro-choice rest their case. :lol: :lol:

[Sailor Moon]

Thanks for trolling...