Political Crossfire Forums

[SUBURBAN]

In the Encyclopedia Britannica it is stated that:
"Muhammad is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities."

----------------------------------

John Austin says:
"In little more than a year he was actually the spiritual, nominal and temporal rule of Medina, with his hands on the lever that was to shake the world."
----
Source: John Austin "Muhammad the Prophet of Allah," in T.P.'s and Cassel's Weekly for 24th September 1927.

-------------------------------------




John William Draper says:
"Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born at Mecca, in Arabia the man who, of all men exercised the greatest influence upon the human race . . . Mohammed . . ."

Source: John William Draper, A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, London 1875, Vol. 1, pp. 329-330.

----------------------------------



W. Montgomery Watt says:
"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad."
----
W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52.

------------------------------





Mahatma Gandhi, speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) says in (Young India):
"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."

-----------------------------

George Bernard Shaw says:
If a man like Muhamed were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness. Read the following writings of other Western authors...

------------------------------

Thomas Carlyle in his (Heroes and Heroworship), was simply amazed as to:
"how one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades."

------------------------------

Diwan Chand Sharma wrote:
"Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him."
(D.C. Sharma, The Prophets of The East, Calcutta, 1935, pp. 12)

-------------------------------

In the words of Prof. C. Snouck Hurgronje:
"The league of nations founded by the prophet of Islam put the principle of international unity and human brotherhood on such universal foundations as to show candle to other nations." He continues: "The fact is that no nation of the world can show a parallel to what Islam has done towards the realization of the idea of the League of Nations ."

-----------------------------




Prof. Ramakrishna Rao says:
"The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes! There is Muhammad, the Prophet. There is Muhammad, the Warrior; Muhammad, the Businessman; Muhammad, the Statesman; Muhammad, the Orator; Muhammad, the Reformer; Muhammad, the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad, the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad, the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad, the Judge; Muhammad, the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero."

------------------------
Sarogini Naidu, the famous poetess of India says about Islam: "It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: 'God Alone is Great'… I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother."
----
(S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, video Speeches and Writings, Madras, 1918, p.169).

---------------------------------------





Lamartine says:

"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls. . . his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words.

"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"
-----
Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.
---------------------------------




1- Annie Besant says:

"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher."
-------
Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras ,1932, p. 4.

-----------------------------

2- The Prophet Muhammad's (SAW) Marriages:

"But do you mean to tell me that the man who in the full flush of youthful vigour, a young man of four and twenty (24), married a woman much his senior, and remained faithful to her for six and twenty years (26), at fifty years of age when the passions are dying married for lust and sexual passion? Not thus are men's lives to be judged. And you look at the women whom he married, you will find that by every one of them an alliance was made for his people, or something was gained for his followers, or the woman was in sore need of protection."
-----
Dr Annie Besant (Dr. Annie Besant in 'The Life and Teachings of Mohammad,' Madras, 1932)

-------------------------------





Bosworth Smith says:

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."
-----
Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.

--------------------------------





Michael H. Hart says:

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level."

Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p. 33.

________





A noted British author has observed:

"No great religious leader has been so maligned as Prophet Mohammed. Attacked in the past as a heretic, an impostor, or a sensualist, it is still possible to find him referred to as "the false prophet." A modern German writer accuses Prophet Mohammed of sensuality, surrounding himself with young women. This man was not married until he was twenty-five years of age, then he and his wife lived in happiness and fidelity for twenty-four years, until her death when he was forty-nine. Only between the age of fifty and his death at sixty-two did Prophet Mohammed take other wives, only one of whom was a virgin, and most of them were taken for dynastic and political reasons. Certainly the Prophet's record was better than the head of the Church of England, Henry VIII."

Geoffrey Parrinder, Mysticism in the World's Religions (New York: Oxford University Press, 1976, pg. 121)

----------------------

James A. Michener says:

"Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty, he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five, his employer, recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived, remained a devoted husband.

"Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded "Read." So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God."

"In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumours of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, "An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being." "At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: "If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever."

James A. Michener, "ISLAM: THE MISUNDERSTOOD RELIGION," in READER'S DIGEST (American edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70.

-------------------------





Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay say:

22/01/2004

"It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran. . . The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith an devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. 'I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honours of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."
-----
Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay, HISTORY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRE, London, 1870, p. 54.

_______


http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/mohamed/1424/aboutmohamed/article01.shtml

[Glorfindel]

SUBURBAN wrote: In the Encyclopedia Britannica it is stated that:
"Muhammad is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities."

----------------------------------

John Austin says:
"In little more than a year he was actually the spiritual, nominal and temporal rule of Medina, with his hands on the lever that was to shake the world."
----
Source: John Austin "Muhammad the Prophet of Allah," in T.P.'s and Cassel's Weekly for 24th September 1927.

-------------------------------------




John William Draper says:
"Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born at Mecca, in Arabia the man who, of all men exercised the greatest influence upon the human race . . . Mohammed . . ."

Source: John William Draper, A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, London 1875, Vol. 1, pp. 329-330.

----------------------------------



W. Montgomery Watt says:
"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad."
----
W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52.

------------------------------





Mahatma Gandhi, speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) says in (Young India):
"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."

-----------------------------

George Bernard Shaw says:
If a man like Muhamed were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness. Read the following writings of other Western authors...

------------------------------

Thomas Carlyle in his (Heroes and Heroworship), was simply amazed as to:
"how one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades."

------------------------------

Diwan Chand Sharma wrote:
"Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him."
(D.C. Sharma, The Prophets of The East, Calcutta, 1935, pp. 12)

-------------------------------

In the words of Prof. C. Snouck Hurgronje:
"The league of nations founded by the prophet of Islam put the principle of international unity and human brotherhood on such universal foundations as to show candle to other nations." He continues: "The fact is that no nation of the world can show a parallel to what Islam has done towards the realization of the idea of the League of Nations ."

-----------------------------




Prof. Ramakrishna Rao says:
"The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes! There is Muhammad, the Prophet. There is Muhammad, the Warrior; Muhammad, the Businessman; Muhammad, the Statesman; Muhammad, the Orator; Muhammad, the Reformer; Muhammad, the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad, the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad, the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad, the Judge; Muhammad, the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero."

------------------------
Sarogini Naidu, the famous poetess of India says about Islam: "It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: 'God Alone is Great'… I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother."
----
(S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, video Speeches and Writings, Madras, 1918, p.169).

---------------------------------------





Lamartine says:

"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls. . . his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words.

"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"
-----
Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.
---------------------------------




1- Annie Besant says:

"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher."
-------
Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras ,1932, p. 4.

-----------------------------

2- The Prophet Muhammad's (SAW) Marriages:

"But do you mean to tell me that the man who in the full flush of youthful vigour, a young man of four and twenty (24), married a woman much his senior, and remained faithful to her for six and twenty years (26), at fifty years of age when the passions are dying married for lust and sexual passion? Not thus are men's lives to be judged. And you look at the women whom he married, you will find that by every one of them an alliance was made for his people, or something was gained for his followers, or the woman was in sore need of protection."
-----
Dr Annie Besant (Dr. Annie Besant in 'The Life and Teachings of Mohammad,' Madras, 1932)

-------------------------------





Bosworth Smith says:

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."
-----
Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.

--------------------------------





Michael H. Hart says:

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level."

Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p. 33.

________





A noted British author has observed:

"No great religious leader has been so maligned as Prophet Mohammed. Attacked in the past as a heretic, an impostor, or a sensualist, it is still possible to find him referred to as "the false prophet." A modern German writer accuses Prophet Mohammed of sensuality, surrounding himself with young women. This man was not married until he was twenty-five years of age, then he and his wife lived in happiness and fidelity for twenty-four years, until her death when he was forty-nine. Only between the age of fifty and his death at sixty-two did Prophet Mohammed take other wives, only one of whom was a virgin, and most of them were taken for dynastic and political reasons. Certainly the Prophet's record was better than the head of the Church of England, Henry VIII."

Geoffrey Parrinder, Mysticism in the World's Religions (New York: Oxford University Press, 1976, pg. 121)

----------------------

James A. Michener says:

"Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty, he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five, his employer, recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived, remained a devoted husband.

"Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded "Read." So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God."

"In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumours of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, "An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being." "At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: "If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever."

James A. Michener, "ISLAM: THE MISUNDERSTOOD RELIGION," in READER'S DIGEST (American edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70.

-------------------------





Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay say:

22/01/2004

"It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran. . . The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith an devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. 'I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honours of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."
-----
Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay, HISTORY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRE, London, 1870, p. 54.

_______


http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/mohamed/1424/aboutmohamed/article01.shtml

Suburban

great post man

the testimonies of these politicians, authors, and masters of their time on the greatness of Islam and Prophet Mohammed in addition to that almost all of them are not actually muslims makes this ever more priceless and magnificent

24 read this post and nobody replied with neither admirance nor disagreement... thats kind of weird...

maybe those who can't stop accusing Islam of terrorism and Mohammed of barbarian-ism and viciousness..should open their minds... to those from the west who knew and read about true Islam than anyone of those anti-islamists ...hey maybe they should read their books too

anyway I just wanted to thank you for this post

peace

[Saracen]

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Suburban, excellent post. Glorfindel, the rest of the Muslim posters here on PC, and myself (a Muslim as well) thank you for your consideration and I appreciate your admiration and consideration.

Here is another source about the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him):
http://www.muhammad.net/

And I agree with Glorfindel wholeheartedly. If people can stop looking past the lies of the media and the firewalls of anti-Islamic bigotry, they can come to see how much of a Prophet he was. :-D

Excellent post. :tu:
Salaam.

[gavnook]

Glorfindel wrote:
Suburban

great post man

the testimonies of these politicians, authors, and masters of their time on the greatness of Islam and Prophet Mohammed in addition to that almost all of them are not actually muslims makes this ever more priceless and magnificent

24 read this post and nobody replied with neither admirance nor disagreement... thats kind of weird...

maybe those who can't stop accusing Islam of terrorism and Mohammed of barbarian-ism and viciousness..should open their minds... to those from the west who knew and read about true Islam than anyone of those anti-islamists ...hey maybe they should read their books too

anyway I just wanted to thank you for this post

peace
Most of the quotes have little if any substance to them. There's not much to disagree with. Nothing here refutes claims that Mohammed was a barbarian/murderer/pedophile/etc., and nothing here leads me toward believing the words of a man who claimed to speak for God.

BTW, it's hardly necessary to quote all of such a long post when
1. you're responding to the topic-starting post,
2. yours is the first reply in the thread, and
3. you aren't addressing anything specific in the quote.

[Bag of Rags]

The history of Islam proves that these glowing statements about Mohammed aren't right.

But nobody is allowed to speak this truth on PCF Forums. The local cry-babies will just do their best to get the preson banned. :roll:

[Saracen]

Bag of Rags wrote: The history of Islam proves that these glowing statements about Mohammed aren't right.

But nobody is allowed to speak this truth on PCF Forums. The local cry-babies will just do their best to get the preson banned. :roll:

Well, well well. Look who's BACK. :roll:

The statements of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) are indeed right. They are the truth. The words of Jesus Christ are also truthful.

For one thing, we're not "cry-babies". We laugh at ignorance. Yours, especially. You think you know the truth but you don't. I already proved it ten times over that you know NOTHING about Islam. I also showed you that even though you claim to have studied Islam for years, that is also a non-truth. You studied about it wrongly, or you're just plain lying. You know nothing about its history:
http://www.al-bab.com/

Unless, of course, you're just here to make this thread quacky with your baseless accusations and lies. :roll:

Quote: Most of the quotes have little if any substance to them. There's not much to disagree with. Nothing here refutes claims that Mohammed was a barbarian/murderer/pedophile/etc., and nothing here leads me toward believing the words of a man who claimed to speak for God.

BTW, it's hardly necessary to quote all of such a long post when
1. you're responding to the topic-starting post,
2. yours is the first reply in the thread, and
3. you aren't addressing anything specific in the quote.

This will:
http://www.muhammad.net/
He was none of what you think he was. He was a peaceful man.
I know where you're getting at: you think you can accuse the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) of barbary just because the AQ are barbarous. No. The AQ do not follow Islam the right way. You should read more about the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) from ISLAMIC sources before you come and accuse him of something you don't know about. :roll:

[Zeeman]

GREAT THREAD...I hope it just generates more interest in reading about the GREAT MAN.

I actually read THE 100,great book and great history lesson in a way.

The Prophet was definately one of the greatest figures in history.

[Glorfindel]

gavnook wrote: Glorfindel wrote:
Suburban

great post man

the testimonies of these politicians, authors, and masters of their time on the greatness of Islam and Prophet Mohammed in addition to that almost all of them are not actually muslims makes this ever more priceless and magnificent

24 read this post and nobody replied with neither admirance nor disagreement... thats kind of weird...

maybe those who can't stop accusing Islam of terrorism and Mohammed of barbarian-ism and viciousness..should open their minds... to those from the west who knew and read about true Islam than anyone of those anti-islamists ...hey maybe they should read their books too

anyway I just wanted to thank you for this post

peace
Most of the quotes have little if any substance to them. There's not much to disagree with. Nothing here refutes claims that Mohammed was a barbarian/murderer/pedophile/etc., and nothing here leads me toward believing the words of a man who claimed to speak for God.

BTW, it's hardly necessary to quote all of such a long post when
1. you're responding to the topic-starting post,
2. yours is the first reply in the thread, and
3. you aren't addressing anything specific in the quote.

first of all... I'm not gonna go through whatever you think of mohammed because calling a man all these insults does not really show that you know anything about Islam... in fact it shows that you have the same mainstream Idea that people who hate Islam are trying to spread and appearntly you didnt read all those quotes...

I would love to thoroughly discuss every part of your post with you.. and learn why you think Mohammed was " pedophile - barbarian - murderer " if you could do that with afew evidence ...I would be interested in showing you how you misunderstood Islam and that your claims are false

about me quoting the first post... well you are right ... I shouldnt have quoted the whole post for the reasons you provided... thank you and sorry about that.. I just got used to it

[thundertaker]

Didn't mohhamad marry a 6 year old girl, Aisha, and then have sex with her when she was 9? That is paedophillia by modern standards......

[Saracen]

thundertaker wrote: Didn't mohhamad marry a 6 year old girl, Aisha, and then have sex with her when she was 9? That is paedophillia by modern standards......

By modern standards. But he is not a pedophile by the standards of his time. The marriage was consummated at age 9.
http://www.yotor.org/wiki/en/ai/Aisha.htm
This practice was accepted at that time. In fact, during these times, teenagers of young ages, such as 12 and 13, were married to each other.
It was not rape. They were both inclined in such a relation.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/childbrides_rebuttal.htm
Oh, and one more thing: people at that time had short life expectancies.
You can reach your own conclusions.

[Chris29]

Bag of Rags wrote: The history of Islam proves that these glowing statements about Mohammed aren't right.

But nobody is allowed to speak this truth on PCF Forums. The local cry-babies will just do their best to get the preson banned. :roll:

1. no the history of radical fundamentalist muslims prove that they do not truly follow the words of Mohammed

2. If you can't keep from making racist and derogatory comments then go somewhere else where it is allowed.

[Orions]

Ok. I admit I do not know much about Islam from Islamic sources... and I really want to believe it is a peaceful religion...

But then please tell me, how it has come to pass that the reality of the Muslim countries, their attitude towards non-Muslims has strayed so far from the teachings of the Koran?

[Saracen]

Orions wrote: Ok. I admit I do not know much about Islam from Islamic sources... and I really want to believe it is a peaceful religion...

But then please tell me, how it has come to pass that the reality of the Muslim countries, their attitude towards non-Muslims has strayed so far from the teachings of the Koran?

Good question. First of all, this is a myth to begin with. It's not ALL Muslim countries, but mainly Saudi Arabia and Iran. However, the Arab states and the other Islamic countries are very tolerant, contrary to what the media tells you. I've seen the portrayal of the Middle East in foreign media, but it's nothing like the Middle East at all.

But there are radicals everywhere, not just in the Middle East. You'll always find a few nuts in every crowd, as they say. And there are in fact people who won't tolerate you, or your religion. You'll find the same attitude in other foreign countries like South Korea (I'm serious). It's just that people need to be exposed to the outside world a bit more.

Hope that helps. :-D

[Orions]

Moath wrote: Orions wrote: Ok. I admit I do not know much about Islam from Islamic sources... and I really want to believe it is a peaceful religion...

But then please tell me, how it has come to pass that the reality of the Muslim countries, their attitude towards non-Muslims has strayed so far from the teachings of the Koran?

Good question. First of all, this is a myth to begin with. It's not ALL Muslim countries, but mainly Saudi Arabia and Iran. However, the Arab states and the other Islamic countries are very tolerant, contrary to what the media tells you. I've seen the portrayal of the Middle East in foreign media, but it's nothing like the Middle East at all.

But there are radicals everywhere, not just in the Middle East. You'll always find a few nuts in every crowd, as they say. And there are in fact people who won't tolerate you, or your religion. You'll find the same attitude in other foreign countries like South Korea (I'm serious). It's just that people need to be exposed to the outside world a bit more.

Hope that helps. :-D

Well, ok, I'll agree that there are radicals everywhere, the only problem is how much support do they get. It is also probably true that the Western media tend to show the more extreme actions of Muslims, because that makes better news. But still I am a little bit anxious when I hear about the Hamas winning in Palestina, all the demonstrations against Europe and America in various Arab countries and so on and so on.

Next thing is, I wonder when did the meaning of the word 'jihad' become such as it is now. I read somewhere, can't remember where exactly right now, that originally 'jihad' meant something like a constant struggle with yourself to be a better man - a kind of an inner fight for perfection. But now ask anybody, they will tell you that it means a holy crusade against the West... And I wonder who started using it in this new meaning...

[Saracen]

Orions wrote: Well, ok, I'll agree that there are radicals everywhere, the only problem is how much support do they get. It is also probably true that the Western media tend to show the more extreme actions of Muslims, because that makes better news. But still I am a little bit anxious when I hear about the Hamas winning in Palestina, all the demonstrations against Europe and America in various Arab countries and so on and so on.

About Hamas. Even though they are reviled as a terrorist group by the Western media (and I myself don't approve of their actions against innocent Israelis), they have done much more for the Palestinians and provided a lot of aid (be it medicine, food, etc.) than Fatah did (Fatah, btw, stunk with corruption and was more interested in serving itself than the Palestinians). As for the demonstrations against Europe and America, most of them have very little substance, but they mainly express the outrage against the governments of these nations, not the people of these nations.

Orions wrote: Next thing is, I wonder when did the meaning of the word 'jihad' become such as it is now. I read somewhere, can't remember where exactly right now, that originally 'jihad' meant something like a constant struggle with yourself to be a better man - a kind of an inner fight for perfection. But now ask anybody, they will tell you that it means a holy crusade against the West... And I wonder who started using it in this new meaning...

You ask wise questions. Jihad is indeed a struggle for inner perfection and betterness. It is also a struggle for the cause of God, mainly in defense of homes, land, territory, etc. Quite a beautiful thing, jihad is. What ashames me now is that people think of it as a crusade. In OBL's eyes, his jihad against the West is a struggle to find his definition of "perfection" for the world (imo, it's "perversion"). Jihad was used because OBL, in his many tirades, used the word and to the Western media, it sounded synonymous to crusade or war. It was the Western media who started to use this new meaning, but OBL perverted it for them.

Please feel free to join us in the Islam forums, and if you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to go on over there and ask them; I think you'll enjoy a multiple response, not just one. :wink:

P.S. Is that Cao Cao in your avatar? Awesome. I've read his commentaries on Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Pretty decent general imo.

[Orions]

Moath wrote: Orions wrote: Well, ok, I'll agree that there are radicals everywhere, the only problem is how much support do they get. It is also probably true that the Western media tend to show the more extreme actions of Muslims, because that makes better news. But still I am a little bit anxious when I hear about the Hamas winning in Palestina, all the demonstrations against Europe and America in various Arab countries and so on and so on.

About Hamas. Even though they are reviled as a terrorist group by the Western media (and I myself don't approve of their actions against innocent Israelis), they have done much more for the Palestinians and provided a lot of aid (be it medicine, food, etc.) than Fatah did (Fatah, btw, stunk with corruption and was more interested in serving itself than the Palestinians). As for the demonstrations against Europe and America, most of them have very little substance, but they mainly express the outrage against the governments of these nations, not the people of these nations.

Well, another little thing. I am pretty sure nobody here in Europe nows about Hamas providing food or medical aid. The only times we hear about Hamas are when they admit to some bomb attack or sth. Which raises another tricky question. Seeing the type of information the western media give about Arab countries, I wonder what kind of news do the Muslims get about Europe from their own media? I've got no way to see for myself, but I am inclined to risk a theory that the information the Arabs get about us is as much biased and untrue as the one we get about Arabs.

Moath wrote: P.S. Is that Cao Cao in your avatar? Awesome. I've read his commentaries on Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Pretty decent general imo.

Yes, it is Cao Cao. But I got it from some old strategic game by Koei, can't quite remember the title :D

[Saracen]

Orions wrote: Well, another little thing. I am pretty sure nobody here in Europe nows about Hamas providing food or medical aid. The only times we hear about Hamas are when they admit to some bomb attack or sth. Which raises another tricky question. Seeing the type of information the western media give about Arab countries, I wonder what kind of news do the Muslims get about Europe from their own media? I've got no way to see for myself, but I am inclined to risk a theory that the information the Arabs get about us is as much biased and untrue as the one we get about Arabs.

Well, I'll tell you the truth, plain and simple. They get a fairly unbiased view of Europe and the Western world; in fact, in most of the media (eg. Al Jazeera, and Al Arabiya), Europe and America are portrayed as they are. There is no bias towards, for example, the high crime rates in these Western nations. But there are elements that tend to be biased, but not severely. Usually, Muslims in the Middle East could care more about Europe, considering Europe's large Muslim population, so Europe is viewed as Europeans view it, no more, no less. I know it sounds a bit hard to understand, but it's what I see on TV. :wink:

Orions wrote: Yes, it is Cao Cao. But I got it from some old strategic game by Koei, can't quite remember the title :-D

I just recently finished reading Sun Tzu's masterpiece. What's amazing about the book is that it doesn't only apply to war, but also to conflict in general.

[Orions]

Moath wrote: I just recently finished reading Sun Tzu's masterpiece. What's amazing about the book is that it doesn't only apply to war, but also to conflict in general.

Yep, not only conflict, everyday life as well. That's how you get books that survive for thousands of years. :-D

[XxMorningStarxX]

Orions wrote: Moath wrote: I just recently finished reading Sun Tzu's masterpiece. What's amazing about the book is that it doesn't only apply to war, but also to conflict in general.

Yep, not only conflict, everyday life as well. That's how you get books that survive for thousands of years. :-D

Yeah its a great book.. I don't know where the hell to procure it though! no library or book store has it. I read it online from the Project Gutenberg e-book.

Anyways, i thought Al-Jazeera is like.. extremely anti-west and anti Israel???

[marxistrevolutionary]

I do agree in general with the teachings of most religious figures many of them advocated peace and respect for people. i agree with the ideas that they taught although not so much in the higher powr part.
HOWEVER the spread of islam can be attributed to 2 things in my mind.
1. the fact that during the time of the rule of muhameds followers many of the surrounding countries were conquered.
including parts of spain they fought battles with the french in europe.
2. after they captured a country the muslims respected the followings of other poeple and let them continue worship whether they were jewish or christian, a remarkably progressive stance for the time.

OH and i believe the game form koei was dynasty warriors.