Political Crossfire Forums

[Ssushi]

Lucky Luke wrote: Ssushi wrote:

We didn't invade, we were asked to come over and help one of the irish warlords fight another (who had the help of the vikings), the Normans (french) came over and stayed. So please refrain from re-writing history...

Come on Ssushi the same silly argument was given for Scotland losing it's language, it's people and it's destiny.

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'tis true... :roll:

Nevertheless, I can understand the Irish still holding things against the British for recent history (the Easter Rising executions etc...) but harking back 800 years is simply crazy. If this was the case the Brits would hate 1/2 of Europe for invading us...

I also hate crap like 'you invaded' or 'you murdering Brits' etc.... I personally haven't invaded anywhere or murdered anyone...

[Lucky Luke]

mulberrymagnet wrote:

What are you so ashamed of Luke? Why are you so worried? You killed that 6 month old girl.. if she wasn't the face of your struggle, why did she have to be murdered in its name? What did it achieve? She had no choice in the matter, the IRA did. If they can't live with the consequences of their actions, they shouldn't murder babies. Sleep soundly tonight Luke. I wonder if her mother knows that almost 20 years on, sick minds are still defending the part her daughter's murder played, and that her death, and not her life is still being justified as worthwhile by an ill man on the internet.

Peter Hain is probably the most dynamic member of the g'memt Luke. He's doing a lot more for the British people of NI than those who saw reducing it to rubble as a way of improving things. You need to get up to date.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4917646.stm

Have we not moved on? Yes, we have, and Brits in NI have.. but it seems you haven't Luke. This is my last exchange with you on this matter. I hope we can continue cordial debate elsewhere.

Get well soon.

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The only British people in NI are in uniform, the rest of them are Irish Mulberrymagnet.

I am ashamed of a lot of children deaths, I believe in collective responsibility. It is up to us to stop all armed conflicts Mulberrymagnet, all of us. Margaret Thatcher understood this regarding the IRA, why can't you?

You should know that no soldiers can personally responsible for following orders in action. I believe the IRA terrorists sleep as well as the RAF pilots do.

We all play a part Mulberrymagnet. I for one, understand why an Iraqi gunman would want to kill my kids just like I understood why his kids died.

My struggle is to see Scotland independent, no armed struggle is planned.

Peter is a puppet of Bliar and we all know who Bliar listen to regarding the future of Northern Ireland, ask Trimble.

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[Lucky Luke]

Ssushi wrote:

'tis true... :roll:

Nevertheless, I can understand the Irish still holding things against the British for recent history (the Easter Rising executions etc...) but harking back 800 years is simply crazy. If this was the case the Brits would hate 1/2 of Europe for invading us...

I also hate crap like 'you invaded' or 'you murdering Brits' etc.... I personally haven't invaded anywhere or murdered anyone...

This is not a personal matter but you have to understand that the Spaniards could do too without the British armed forces around just like China had enough of them. If Britain was still occupying half of Europe the IRA would be the least of the problems of the British government.

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[Lucky Luke]

Ssushi wrote: Clearly, the British should infact leave Ireland, they've over stayed their welcome and the country isn't theirs. On the other hand, the island was populated by other animals first and some of them (snakes for example) were driven out by a religious fanatic who couldn't stand their slithering ways... I say that the snakes should return to inhabit Eire and homosapiens should leave and return to their own country!

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Britain has a great tradition of leaving people behind to fight each other, unfortunately Northern Ireland is too close to London not like Pakistan and India.
This is a problem created by London, London has to find a solution.
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[Ssushi]

Lucky Luke wrote: Ssushi wrote: Clearly, the British should infact leave Ireland, they've over stayed their welcome and the country isn't theirs. On the other hand, the island was populated by other animals first and some of them (snakes for example) were driven out by a religious fanatic who couldn't stand their slithering ways... I say that the snakes should return to inhabit Eire and homosapiens should leave and return to their own country!

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Britain has a great tradition of leaving people behind to fight each other, unfortunately Northern Ireland is too close to London not like Pakistan and India.
This is a problem created by London, London has to find a solution.
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London's a city, not a political entity (you know that, I know), my point is, where do you draw the line? Who's to blame? All this stuff happened ages ago! 100's of years in some cases. I think it's up to the people of Ireland and India/Pakistan and Israel/Palestine to figure these things out now.... I'm not shirking responsibility but outsiders (and we are now) cannot mediate these things effectively. If the sorts of attitudes which exist in these countries exeisted in a modern business, the company would go under; good companies sort their crap out, no matter why/who is to blame...

PS London couldn't find a solution to Eire's snake problem surely...? :-D

[Lucky Luke]

Ssushi wrote:
London's a city, not a political entity (you know that, I know), my point is, where do you draw the line? Who's to blame? All this stuff happened ages ago! 100's of years in some cases. I think it's up to the people of Ireland and India/Pakistan and Israel/Palestine to figure these things out now.... I'm not shirking responsibility but outsiders (and we are now) cannot mediate these things effectively. If the sorts of attitudes which exist in these countries exeisted in a modern business, the company would go under; good companies sort their crap out, no matter why/who is to blame...

PS London couldn't find a solution to Eire's snake problem surely...? :-D

I meant London as the British government of course.

People don't agree on how the future should be because the past has never been resolved Ssushi. Separating people who used to leave together as proved to be a disaster. People are living today the way they live because of a stupid political decision years ago, it is not only a question of attitudes but a question of reality too. The Catholic community was never given the same opportunity than the rest of the people in Northern Ireland, this is still a fact today Ssushi. You can't tell people to forget the past that gave them such a miserable present and a bleak future for their children.

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[Ssushi]

Lucky Luke wrote: Ssushi wrote:
London's a city, not a political entity (you know that, I know), my point is, where do you draw the line? Who's to blame? All this stuff happened ages ago! 100's of years in some cases. I think it's up to the people of Ireland and India/Pakistan and Israel/Palestine to figure these things out now.... I'm not shirking responsibility but outsiders (and we are now) cannot mediate these things effectively. If the sorts of attitudes which exist in these countries exeisted in a modern business, the company would go under; good companies sort their crap out, no matter why/who is to blame...

PS London couldn't find a solution to Eire's snake problem surely...? :-D

I meant London as the British government of course.

People don't agree on how the future should be because the past has never been resolved Ssushi. Separating people who used to leave together as proved to be a disaster. People are living today the way they live because of a stupid political decision years ago, it is not only a question of attitudes but a question of reality too. The Catholic community was never given the same opportunity than the rest of the people in Northern Ireland, this is still a fact today Ssushi. You can't tell people to forget the past that gave them such a miserable present and a bleak future for their children.

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I'm not disputing you regarding the separation of people or in fact your other thoughts, only that the people of Ireland have a responsibility to themselves to resolve this, as do the other countries where this type of issue exists... Blaming the previous ruling power for todays issues may be fine if you want an excuse, but if you want a resolution, you need to become involved and sort it out!

[Lucky Luke]

Ssushi wrote:

I'm not disputing you regarding the separation of people or in fact your other thoughts, only that the people of Ireland have a responsibility to themselves to resolve this, as do the other countries where this type of issue exists... Blaming the previous ruling power for todays issues may be fine if you want an excuse, but if you want a resolution, you need to become involved and sort it out!

In the case of Northern Ireland the existing ruler is London not Belfast or Dublin.

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[Ssushi]

Lucky Luke wrote: Ssushi wrote:

I'm not disputing you regarding the separation of people or in fact your other thoughts, only that the people of Ireland have a responsibility to themselves to resolve this, as do the other countries where this type of issue exists... Blaming the previous ruling power for todays issues may be fine if you want an excuse, but if you want a resolution, you need to become involved and sort it out!

In the case of Northern Ireland the existing ruler is London not Belfast or Dublin.

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Damn it! I knew there was a gaping hole in my argument! :-D