Political Crossfire Forums

[tiger_j000]

GFA = Good Friday Agreement.

I think the main oppenents are the DUP, refusing to deal with Sinn Fein, but why?

And decommisioning with the IRA

[irish_lou]

The DUP don't want to deal with Sinn Fein becuase of who the party are. They are republicans and want a united Ireland. The DUP don't want to share power with a party like that.

What about the IRA? They have been disbanded for the last 6months. The DUP refuse to believe this. Nothing is good enough for them, they want a Unionist state. Thats it. The DUP would prefer to go back to the days when they 'ruled the roost'.

[Windy]

The same reason they don't want to sent their children to the same school as Protestants/Catholics, they are a bunch of racists.

The parties put a lot of spin on it but then simple fact is they don't trust each other because there a different religion.

[maxtsu]

What I find amazing is how unionists define themselves.

Let me explain; all citizens of GB/UK are one of Scottish, Welsh, English or Irish. The last being NI as opposed to Republic of Ireland.
All friends I have in UK will say they are English or Scottish, before being British.

But what is an Ulster Unionists? They will be shot down before they claim to be Irish. The are 'British'.
You can see where the 'catch 22' is going.

[Irish Gal]

Whats even funnier is the fact that they are not actually British.

If you look at a british passport it says - 'The United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland'

Northern Ireland may be part of the UK, but its not British!!

Yet they are they only people in the world who define themselves as British!

[Pebble]

Quote: Yet they are they only people in the world who define themselves as British!

Erm...I define myself as British, and so do a lot of English people...

[maxtsu]

Pebble wrote: Quote: Yet they are they only people in the world who define themselves as British!

Erm...I define myself as British, and so do a lot of English people...
But are you english first, then british?
Or vice-versa?

All my english friends are; english first, british second.

[thundertaker]

maxtsu wrote: Pebble wrote: Quote: Yet they are they only people in the world who define themselves as British!

Erm...I define myself as British, and so do a lot of English people...
But are you english first, then british?
Or vice-versa?

All my english friends are; english first, british second.

British and English in equal measure, European DEAD LAST..........

[Pebble]

maxtsu wrote: Pebble wrote: Quote: Yet they are they only people in the world who define themselves as British!

Erm...I define myself as British, and so do a lot of English people...
But are you english first, then british?
Or vice-versa?

All my english friends are; english first, british second.

Rather depends on whether i'm watching the olympics or the football/rugby ;)

In all seriousness, I don't really think of myself as being one more than the other, its not really something I focus on...

[Irish Gal]

Pebble wrote: Quote: Yet they are they only people in the world who define themselves as British!

Erm...I define myself as British, and so do a lot of English people...

Well ok, but your the first ive ever met. I lived in Manchester for 6 six years, so I know tons of english.

[maxtsu]

Irish Gal wrote: Pebble wrote: Quote: Yet they are they only people in the world who define themselves as British!

Erm...I define myself as British, and so do a lot of English people...

Well ok, but your the first ive ever met. I lived in Manchester for 6 six years, so I know tons of english.
I agree.
Call it a strange hobby of mine. But I find it interesting how British define themselves.
And I have asked many, 100+ people, in England this question.
Everyone was English and proud, before being British.
But don't mistake, still proud to be British, just English first.

Also, it matters who asks the question. I am a foreigner, therefore will elicit a direct answer to the question. Is I was British/English I most likely would get a "doesn't matter" answer.

The only exception were army/soldiers. But then it again that is training/drilling.

[De Bhaldraithe]

I'm from the occupied six counties and what I find most sad about this sorry state of affairs is like you all have said how the DUP will cling on to being British and disspell the fact that they are Irish. Also I hate the way at "Northern Ireland" football matches, the english national anthem is played. Both Scotland and Wales have their own respective national anthems yet for some reason, this made up state just latches on to the national anthem of another country. A Sad and rather confusing state of affairs.

[Windy]

De Bhaldraithe wrote: I'm from the occupied six counties and what I find most sad about this sorry state of affairs is like you all have said how the DUP will cling on to being British and disspell the fact that they are Irish. Also I hate the way at "Northern Ireland" football matches, the english national anthem is played. Both Scotland and Wales have their own respective national anthems yet for some reason, this made up state just latches on to the national anthem of another country. A Sad and rather confusing state of affairs.

Black people can't live in Northern Ireland because of the racism, catholics and protestants can't be sent to the same schools and yet what you find sad is the lack of a national anthem at football matches?

[thundertaker]

De Bhaldraithe wrote: I'm from the occupied six counties and what I find most sad about this sorry state of affairs is like you all have said how the DUP will cling on to being British and disspell the fact that they are Irish. Also I hate the way at "Northern Ireland" football matches, the english national anthem is played. Both Scotland and Wales have their own respective national anthems yet for some reason, this made up state just latches on to the national anthem of another country. A Sad and rather confusing state of affairs.

God Save the Queen is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom. England and Northern Ireland just never seem to have gotten around to having their own. Personally, I think they should. It's unseemly to force Welsh and Scots to have to boo the British national anthem when they're playing England.

They should replace it with something like 'Jeruselum' Or 'There'll Always be an England', England needs it's own official Anthem, and so does NI as long as it's part of the UK.....

[De Bhaldraithe]

Windy wrote: De Bhaldraithe wrote: I'm from the occupied six counties and what I find most sad about this sorry state of affairs is like you all have said how the DUP will cling on to being British and disspell the fact that they are Irish. Also I hate the way at "Northern Ireland" football matches, the english national anthem is played. Both Scotland and Wales have their own respective national anthems yet for some reason, this made up state just latches on to the national anthem of another country. A Sad and rather confusing state of affairs.

Black people can't live in Northern Ireland because of the racism, catholics and protestants can't be sent to the same schools and yet what you find sad is the lack of a national anthem at football matches?

I think you'll find that racism is very much a bigger problem in your own country than here. And the small racist faction that does pollute our streets is often found in loyalist streets. As for Catholics and Protestants not being able to be sent to the same schools, you are just wrong as there are many integrated schools throughout the six counties today. And yes, I do find it incredibly sad that Irish men belt out the English national anthem whilst not knowing a word of their own. Would you not find it rather sad if "Flower of Scotland" or "Amhrán na bhFiann" was sang at Wembley?

[Windy]

De Bhaldraithe wrote: Windy wrote: De Bhaldraithe wrote: I'm from the occupied six counties and what I find most sad about this sorry state of affairs is like you all have said how the DUP will cling on to being British and disspell the fact that they are Irish. Also I hate the way at "Northern Ireland" football matches, the english national anthem is played. Both Scotland and Wales have their own respective national anthems yet for some reason, this made up state just latches on to the national anthem of another country. A Sad and rather confusing state of affairs.

Black people can't live in Northern Ireland because of the racism, catholics and protestants can't be sent to the same schools and yet what you find sad is the lack of a national anthem at football matches?

I think you'll find that racism is very much a bigger problem in your own country than here. And the small racist faction that does pollute our streets is often found in loyalist streets. As for Catholics and Protestants not being able to be sent to the same schools, you are just wrong as there are many integrated schools throughout the six counties today. And yes, I do find it incredibly sad that Irish men belt out the English national anthem whilst not knowing a word of their own. Would you not find it rather sad if "Flower of Scotland" or "Amhrán na bhFiann" was sang at Wembley?

Your from Eire are you not? Racism is not a problem there. I was talking about Northern Ireland here racism is a well known problem there:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/712816.stm (from a survey in 2000)
From that article 33% of people wouldn't want to work with a non-white person and 25% couldn't live next door to a non-white person!

Here are some more recent articles:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3390249.stm
Any race attack on the main land is front page news, in Northern Ireland its a day to day occurance, it is the "race hate" capital of Europe.

Please try and get your facts straight.

[Pebble]

Windy wrote: De Bhaldraithe wrote: Windy wrote: De Bhaldraithe wrote: I'm from the occupied six counties and what I find most sad about this sorry state of affairs is like you all have said how the DUP will cling on to being British and disspell the fact that they are Irish. Also I hate the way at "Northern Ireland" football matches, the english national anthem is played. Both Scotland and Wales have their own respective national anthems yet for some reason, this made up state just latches on to the national anthem of another country. A Sad and rather confusing state of affairs.

Black people can't live in Northern Ireland because of the racism, catholics and protestants can't be sent to the same schools and yet what you find sad is the lack of a national anthem at football matches?

I think you'll find that racism is very much a bigger problem in your own country than here. And the small racist faction that does pollute our streets is often found in loyalist streets. As for Catholics and Protestants not being able to be sent to the same schools, you are just wrong as there are many integrated schools throughout the six counties today. And yes, I do find it incredibly sad that Irish men belt out the English national anthem whilst not knowing a word of their own. Would you not find it rather sad if "Flower of Scotland" or "Amhrán na bhFiann" was sang at Wembley?

Your from Eire are you not? Racism is not a problem there. I was talking about Northern Ireland here racism is a well known problem there:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/712816.stm (from a survey in 2000)
From that article 33% of people wouldn't want to work with a non-white person and 25% couldn't live next door to a non-white person!

Here are some more recent articles:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3390249.stm
Any race attack on the main land is front page news, in Northern Ireland its a day to day occurance, it is the "race hate" capital of Europe.

Please try and get your facts straight.

:shock: Wow!

Never knew that, you learn a new thing ever day it seems...

I suppose that't all overlooked, certainly by the English press, because of the other troubles?

[De Bhaldraithe]

Windy wrote:
Your from Eire are you not? Racism is not a problem there. I was talking about Northern Ireland here racism is a well known problem there:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/712816.stm (from a survey in 2000)
From that article 33% of people wouldn't want to work with a non-white person and 25% couldn't live next door to a non-white person!

Here are some more recent articles:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3390249.stm
Any race attack on the main land is front page news, in Northern Ireland its a day to day occurance, it is the "race hate" capital of Europe.

Please try and get your facts straight.

A couple of things:-

First of all, it is spelt Éire.

Secondly, I am from Éire - I am from Antrim within the occupied six counties of Éire.

Thirdly, moving on to your argument after clearing that up. The second link you gave just backs up what I have already said - that there are some racist incidents here in the six counties. However, most of them will be found to be carried out by Loyalists - Loyalists with strong links to fascists and racists in your own fair land, as pointed out by your source:-

But there has been a long history of links between extreme right-wing groups based in England and loyalists in Northern Ireland, particularly the largest organisation, the Ulster Defence Association.

So as you can see, these attacks are being carried out by a minority of the people here, a minority that is made up of bully boys and drug dealers, and are influenced by their comrades across the water.

Now another startling thing that I noticed about the statistics from your source is how overwhelmingly minute they are compared with racist attacks on the "mainland" as you refer to it. From your source, I gather that there were 226 accounts of racist incidents (including graffiti, verbal abuse, etc) in the six counties within a 12 month span up until March 2003.
Lets compare these figures with a British city I have chosen completely at random - lets say Plymouth. In 2003, there were a total of 308 racist incidents that were accounted for. Already, this city has swamped six whole counties by almost 100 more incidents. This baffles me. But wait for it, it gets better. In 2005, this alarming figure rose to a whopping 423 racist incidents - 193 more than the six counties. This is just one city, compared with six whole counties. I know how much you like your links so here you go:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4670418.stm

Can I hear the chewing of some foul tasting words there?

[thundertaker]

How multiculural is Northern Ireland then? Compared to the average British city. You see, if you have a higher proportion of non-whites, there is more scope for racist incidents, as opposed to one that is almost entirely white. Let's also factor in the fact that almost half the community is fearfull of calling the police, and wouldn't report a racist incident if it where to happen, lest the Republican paramilitaries come round with baseball bats to destroy the kneecaps of anyone suspected of being a 'tout'...........

[De Bhaldraithe]

thundertaker wrote: How multiculural is Northern Ireland then? Compared to the average British city. You see, if you have a higher proportion of non-whites, there is more scope for racist incidents, as opposed to one that is almost entirely white. Let's also factor in the fact that almost half the community is fearfull of calling the police, and wouldn't report a racist incident if it where to happen, lest the Republican paramilitaries come round with baseball bats to destroy the kneecaps of anyone suspected of being a 'tout'...........

You're sadly mistaken friend. I haven't heard of any Republican punishment beatings in about 5 or 6 years. And trust me, the lack of them has led to a lot more social problems here. You're point about having a more multicultural mix is a bit questionable. Are you saying that it's justifiable to have more racially motivated attacks simply because there are more ethnic minorities? So basically, ethnic minorities should stay in smaller communities or communes so as to avoid getting beaten up?

Yes good point friend... :?