Political Crossfire Forums

New World Order · Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 32 Location: United States

What do you think of the political situation that the author placed on Earth?
Do you see something like that ever happening based on passed events or is that just pure fiction?

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

Lol, yes i read Ender's Game in like 5th grade. I liked the book, I mean its a great book, but I hated the fact that kids who read it felt "special" afterwards and everybody suddenly felt like geniuses..... I personally had instances where the kids i RECOMMENDED the book to became utter idiots because they thought they were so and so smart because they read the damn book. Wow..... Ender's Game must be so profound and so hard to understand (gimme a break). I feel however, that many of the things in Ender's Game were quite distorted- like the Second Warsaw Pact????? COME ON. With a lot of former eastern bloc nations already joining NATO, how the hell would a second warsaw pact work, especialy after they already revealed the terrible things committed during the FIRST. And yeah.... Orson Scott Card twists some facts on the concept of "Genius," because a simply battle room really doesn't provide the level of tactical/strategic depth needed to stimulate much thought and "genius."

Anyways about the political situation on Earth. I thought a lot of the stuff in the Ender's Shadow series were rather absurd, becaues face it, the book was written for little kids... and it had that overwhelming sense that "kids are right and adults are dumb." I mean, the degree of obviousness at a lot of the stuff Achilles did kind of made the implication that every world leader was stupid. Do leaders ever bother to go for an in depth background check on the people they closely associate with? In the book, apparently not, because if they did they would realize that Achilles was getting very close to a lot of leaders who happened to be FIGHTING against each other. And come on, intelligence can only get you so far... Knowledge is important, and a child that young (WHO GREW UP IN A DIRTHOLE) would never accumulate enough knowledge about politiking as to climb the ranks that fast. Thats why even the smartest people must go to university!

I thought the description of China was rather accurate... Chinese military doctrine etc. I personally look into foreign diplomacy a lot... and I read a ton about chinese military activity.

Yeah and about Demosthenes and Locke.... they apparently got famous by posting stuff on internet forums, but in reality, there are a TON of internet forums, and they're not exactly a place to make a name for yourself. There are lots of people who have lots of good points, and chances are you may just be overlooked. It doesn't take much to make an account on the net anyways, and thats why most people who want to get known get an official agent and publish a book. because a book on a stand with a hot topic can't possibly be missed!

ANd so yeah, a huge load of stuff in the Ender's Game universe is just not feasible and thus fiction.

however, you should also keep in mind that the global situation on Ender's Game was caused directly by the invasion of the "buggers," WHICH IS PURELY FICTION, and so anything that branches off that should also be considered "pure fiction"

Also keep in mind that Ender's Game was written in 1985..... and the revised version in '91. there may be some historical problems because of the things that have changed.

eynon · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone read Ender's Game?

New World Order wrote: What do you think of the political situation that the author placed on Earth?
Do you see something like that ever happening based on passed events or is that just pure fiction?

never read it, could you describe the political situation in the book?

No-Name · Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 91

morning star your points would be valid if enders game would have been staged in the now or near future but its not, its further in he future, much fiurther and as such anything can happen and as such its silly discussing politics then.

No-Name · Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 91

Eynon81 wrote: New World Order wrote: What do you think of the political situation that the author placed on Earth?
Do you see something like that ever happening based on passed events or is that just pure fiction?

never read it, could you describe the political situation in the book?

in short, humans nearly exterminated, kid geniuses trained in a woorld space academy in space, kids save the world.

enders shadow is fun but if you want political or philosophical reading tied in with science fiction id recomend "xenocide". its quite interseting and a lot of the time infuriating because of some of the people stubborn idiotic views being shown by the book, which was part of the point erally.

same author by the way.

edit: honestly speaing there wasnt much of a political situation just a darwinian underlie to the whole thing.

eynon · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone read Ender's Game?

No-Name wrote: Eynon81 wrote: New World Order wrote: What do you think of the political situation that the author placed on Earth?
Do you see something like that ever happening based on passed events or is that just pure fiction?

never read it, could you describe the political situation in the book?

in short, humans nearly exterminated, kid geniuses trained in a woorld space academy in space, kids save the world.

enders shadow is fun but if you want political or philosophical reading tied in with science fiction id recomend "xenocide". its quite interseting and a lot of the time infuriating because of some of the people stubborn idiotic views being shown by the book, which was part of the point erally.

same author by the way.

edit: honestly speaing there wasnt much of a political situation just a darwinian underlie to the whole thing.

cool, occationally we have some posters pop on acting like those characters in the book(the ones who post on forums), and they try to blow everybody's mind with some tired neo-realism clash of cultures stuff.

Personally if I find some pretty relevent Poli-sci stuff in the works of Orwell, Huxley, Gibbson, and Dick.

SCC · Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 1070 Location: somewhere

New World Order wrote: What do you think of the political situation that the author placed on Earth?
Do you see something like that ever happening based on passed events or is that just pure fiction?

Yes. I thought it was entertaining, but unrealistic: hegemony overun earth, not very believable. Personally, I dislike science fiction, but I guess can give Card for predicting what the internet would be used for so accurately.

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

No-Name wrote: morning star your points would be valid if enders game would have been staged in the now or near future but its not, its further in he future, much fiurther and as such anything can happen and as such its silly discussing politics then.

Near Future?? Ender's game takes place in like 2170.... and the Bugger war happened like a couple of decades before that... I'd say its pretty near future...

If you think discussing this is silly.. then why post in this thread? I was posting for the exact reason of proving the political situation in the boOK SILLY. Kid genius, stupid leaders being subdued by one child... please.... that's never happened and it never will- im of course referring to Achilles because Bean was actually genetically tampered....

yes so i guess anything is possible- which I kind of mentioned in my post. I recognized that an alien invasion may just be 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999 percent fiction, therefore making all subsequent occurences FICTION.

Oh yeah.. and the SEcond Warsaw Pact is probably nto gonna happen in like 2000 years... Hitler may have made himself a third reich, but that was bgecause the 'second reich" was very distant in memory (plus the Holy Roman empire never mass slaughtered people) with the stigma of a "third reich" or 'warsaw pact", who the hell would want to make a "fourth reich" or a "second warsaw pact???" higly unlikely.....

Borommakot · Joined: 14 Feb 2005 Posts: 564 Location: The Twilight Zone

I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army. As for Achilles, the murders he commits are rather clever for an orphin off the streets to pull off it just doesn't seem realistic. They're great books and they're good for anyone who likes sci/fi I'd recommend them. I don't see how they could make someone feel smart. They made me feel stupid because the kids are so smart.

Snoop · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 6722

Borommakot wrote: I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army. As for Achilles, the murders he commits are rather clever for an orphin off the streets to pull off it just doesn't seem realistic. They're great books and they're good for anyone who likes sci/fi I'd recommend them. I don't see how they could make someone feel smart. They made me feel stupid because the kids are so smart.

"I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army"

Why ?

Kid often have a way of thinking with out the predisposed conclusions that adults have.

Certainly more then enough precedent of successful child military leaders.

Atilla the Hun for example was a lot younger then those kids when he begun his conquest of Asia.

eynon · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:

Snoop wrote: Borommakot wrote: I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army. As for Achilles, the murders he commits are rather clever for an orphin off the streets to pull off it just doesn't seem realistic. They're great books and they're good for anyone who likes sci/fi I'd recommend them. I don't see how they could make someone feel smart. They made me feel stupid because the kids are so smart.

"I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army"

Why ?

Kid often have a way of thinking with out the predisposed conclusions that adults have.

Certainly more then enough precedent of successful child military leaders.

Atilla the Hun for example was a lot younger then those kids when he begun his conquest of Asia.

Do you mean Gengis Khan? :-|

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

Eynon81 wrote: Snoop wrote: Borommakot wrote: I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army. As for Achilles, the murders he commits are rather clever for an orphin off the streets to pull off it just doesn't seem realistic. They're great books and they're good for anyone who likes sci/fi I'd recommend them. I don't see how they could make someone feel smart. They made me feel stupid because the kids are so smart.

"I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army"

Why ?

Kid often have a way of thinking with out the predisposed conclusions that adults have.

Certainly more then enough precedent of successful child military leaders.

Atilla the Hun for example was a lot younger then those kids when he begun his conquest of Asia.

Do you mean Gengis Khan? :-|

lol..... yeah.. somebodys got history mixed up... it WAS genghis khan.. attila invaded europe.. not asia.. haha

Borommakot · Joined: 14 Feb 2005 Posts: 564 Location: The Twilight Zone

Snoop wrote: Borommakot wrote: I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army. As for Achilles, the murders he commits are rather clever for an orphin off the streets to pull off it just doesn't seem realistic. They're great books and they're good for anyone who likes sci/fi I'd recommend them. I don't see how they could make someone feel smart. They made me feel stupid because the kids are so smart.

"I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army"

Why ?

Kid often have a way of thinking with out the predisposed conclusions that adults have.

Certainly more then enough precedent of successful child military leaders.

Atilla the Hun for example was a lot younger then those kids when he begun his conquest of Asia.

It's true that past generals have done great things very young but Alexander was more than 18 when he fought. The kids in Enders game are in there early teens or younger. Also most of the kids in Enders game hated being in the school. They would be less willing to fight like Ender is toward the end of the book. It does make sense to train them for years and years until they are in their teens but putting them in battles after only a few years of serious training.

MCS · Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 10 Location: here

When you were in elementary school and you discovered this book, your life was immediately changed. The political situation may be unlikely, but i think its also unlikely that bug like aliens are gonna cut a swath of destruction through Asia. Ansibles are a bit far fetched as well as economically feasible zero gravity training for kids. Whether it was crazy fiction or not, the book was quality entertainment for any sci-fi fan with too much spare time. The rest of the series was entertaining, but Enders Game was my favorite book for a long time.

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

MCS wrote: When you were in elementary school and you discovered this book, your life was immediately changed. The political situation may be unlikely, but i think its also unlikely that bug like aliens are gonna cut a swath of destruction through Asia. Ansibles are a bit far fetched as well as economically feasible zero gravity training for kids. Whether it was crazy fiction or not, the book was quality entertainment for any sci-fi fan with too much spare time. The rest of the series was entertaining, but Enders Game was my favorite book for a long time.

did you even read the whole thread?????

MCS · Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 10 Location: here

Yes I did, and I was saying you guys are just cutting apart a good book. My point was that debating whether that book is a likely future or not is pointless, because the earth is no longer working as a closed system. The polictical scheme was seriously disrupted by the buggers. And the only reason some of you are posting on this site is so you could be the next Demosthenes, so don't badmouth the book that gave you the idea. Plus, I can tell you right now, your aspirations probably aren't gonna work out...

eynon · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: ender's game history

XxMorningStarxX wrote: Eynon81 wrote: Snoop wrote: Borommakot wrote: I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army. As for Achilles, the murders he commits are rather clever for an orphin off the streets to pull off it just doesn't seem realistic. They're great books and they're good for anyone who likes sci/fi I'd recommend them. I don't see how they could make someone feel smart. They made me feel stupid because the kids are so smart.

"I agree its a fun book but doesn't really make sense to have children leading an army"

Why ?

Kid often have a way of thinking with out the predisposed conclusions that adults have.

Certainly more then enough precedent of successful child military leaders.

Atilla the Hun for example was a lot younger then those kids when he begun his conquest of Asia.

Do you mean Gengis Khan? :-|

lol..... yeah.. somebodys got history mixed up... it WAS genghis khan.. attila invaded europe.. not asia.. haha

he's didn't really lead any sizable force until he was in his 20's, although he'd been fighting since his early teens.

Ender(_) · Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 19 Location: Fort Wayne, IN

I have read the Ender Series and its Shadow series,i did wreally like the 1st one but it got down to politics and congress in the later on books,for instance the survival of the Pequinos and Buggers including Luistiana itself and how the goverment iradically decided to blow up an entire planet due to the descolada.

All in all it's a great series and i recomend it(altough this wasn't wreally the point of the thread)

eynon · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject:

wanna read a great book about war and young-people, go read "All Quiet on the Western Front"

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

MCS wrote: Yes I did, and I was saying you guys are just cutting apart a good book. My point was that debating whether that book is a likely future or not is pointless, because the earth is no longer working as a closed system. The polictical scheme was seriously disrupted by the buggers. And the only reason some of you are posting on this site is so you could be the next Demosthenes, so don't badmouth the book that gave you the idea. Plus, I can tell you right now, your aspirations probably aren't gonna work out...

:rofl: ROFL..... the next Demosthenes?.. you're kidding........ ok... look back, i was the one who argued that the "demonsthenes on internet" part was just absolutely unreal. I have no intention of freakin building an "internet reputation."

BTW i know it was a good book- a great book for that matter.... But now that i look back on it, it seemed analogous to how a middle schooler would look back on the Sesame STreet DaYs.