Political Crossfire Forums

SCC · Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 1070 Location: somewhere

DD7 wrote: World War III is near, long speech by Chinese Defense minister

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-8-8/31055.html

I wonder if this is a hoax, because that was pure propaganda I just read. Propaganda isn't supposed to obvious; I'd very surprised if anyone bought into that.

China's problem is essentially that the Chinese have a very crude sense of nationalism but no real sense that they are actually Chinese. There cannot be any true nationalism beyond incredibly crude propaganda. It is very sad to see how gullible people are but their nationalism is just violent outbursts and never anything constructive.

Regarding the internal divisions in China, it's not just geographical(rural and urban)or just pertaining to language(Cantonese, Madarin), the fact is that China despite seeming homogenous on the surface, is actually comprised of many different ethnic groups(ie. Manchus, Mongolians), anyway, not of pure Han descent that integrated long ago. It's really not unlike the Irish, Scotts, or Poles who arried on Ellis Island and assimilated in America. Back then, people were concerned with whether you were a "natural" Aerican citizen or not as opposed to one who immigrated from Europe. 'Course, today, people could care less, but it the same cannot be said for China it seems. Personally, I think that China is inscrutable, as the British said.

TwinkieDP · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3608 Location: US

I think I read somewhere that this long speech is a hoax by the FAlun Gong. I'm still looking for a link that might shed some light on that "rumour"....

About the Falun Gong:

Quote: Falun Gong presence overseas
More recently, despite their stated disinterest in politics, Falun Gong practitioners have been seen on the streets in major metropolitan areas, directly informing the public of the alleged treatment their fellow practitioners in China (and worldwide according to some pamphlets) receive from the Chinese government. In many Western cities (particularly Manhattan, New York City) several elaborate streetside demonstrations can be seen that portray graphic scenes of government brutality. Amidst these public displays are signs with simple slogans, such as "Falun Dafa is Good" and "Bring Jiang to Justice." Falun Gong practitioners are seen asking passerbys to sign petitions against the the CCP, or simply to voice support for the movement.

The Falun Gong mouthpiece in the West is the Epoch Times, distributed for free in metropolitan areas in the US, Canada, and Australia. The Falun Gong also operates several radio stations in the West.

Practicing Falun Gong is becoming a legitimate method to gain immigration visas, so many would-be immigrants, both legal and illegal, have attached themselves to the movement in the hope of gaining permanent residency in Western nations such as Australia, Canada, and the U.S.
Other causes or groups that have attached themselves to the Falun Gong include environmentalists and anti-nuclear campaigners; anti-Communist movements; pro-Tibetan independence and pro-Taiwan independence movements, among others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

There are many misleading sources out there. I think the best and only defence against such is critical thinking.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Eynon81 wrote: Danpt2000 wrote: Reason wrote:
Quote:
Anyways I worked in both Shaan-xi and Zhe-jiang, and in both very different places I met people who felt that their regions would be better off if Beijing was out of the picture.......I tend to agree.

Fair enough, it's just I've only ever met one (Han) Chinese (also not from Honk Kong) who didn't want a unified China I tend to agree with that as well....

(shrug)maybe it's cause I spent so much time with students.......

Unifying china is one thing. Starting WW3 to achieve it is another. I want a bentley and a mansion on the beach..doesn't mean i'll invade america to endorse invading america to get it. It is nice to dream...but sometimes it is just a dream and nothing else.

TwinkieDP · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3608 Location: US

Canada_rocks wrote:
Unifying china is one thing. Starting WW3 to achieve it is another. I want a bentley and a mansion on the beach..doesn't mean i'll invade america to endorse invading america to get it. It is nice to dream...but sometimes it is just a dream and nothing else. As I've said above, this speech is most likely a hoax. Epoch times is a mouth piece for the Falun Gong, which is where the article comes from....

SpartanPhalanx · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2081 Location: Montreal

Gogo Yubari wrote: foadi wrote: u think yer so tuff huh

Tough? No
armed and smart? yes.

if I were Japan, I'd be very very careful right about now....

China hasn't forgotten Nanjing nor the attrocities committed by Imperial Japan during WWII.

Japan may think it has no reason to apologise, the Chinese don't see things that way....

And don't think America will come running ... they have enough on their plate right now.....;-)

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

The Chinese invade Japan? No chance. Not only would America and Europe go to help Japan - the 2nd biggest economy in the world - but it'd create a few hundred million unemployed in China. Then the Communist party can expect no less than the guillotine.

CNSpeaker · Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 1

I think the world war 3 impossible happen ,because BUSH and HU arent Stupid donkey!

dgs_vex · Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 117

actually i think it would scare china more than it would the US.

you know how many troops we can land on the shores of china?

you know the US control so many strategic locations?
we control the oil flow in the middle east. don't believe me? you know there is a reason we have a 5th fleet over in the Persian gulf.

the Air force has major airfields in japan, Colorado, and Hawaii. the navy has the 3rd and 7th fleet patrolling the pacific. plus we might obtain Taiwan's support(i hear they have 2million in reserve). the only setback is that we no longer control of the panama canal.

our marines are the most mobile force in the world. they are the first to arrive in the front lines. but still, aircraft are immediately deployable. the US air force and navy will take out most of china's defenses(maybe including the major airfield in Taiwan, thats if the US doesn't recognize Taiwan as a self-ruleing nation.

china's navy is nowhere close to our strength. they have failed to create so many of their visions. their ships couldn't dream of touching the shores of America. we are developing many anti-ballistic missile system as technology evolves and we could consider investing laser technology in the future.

hmmm. other then that, we probably have anti-statalite satellites. there could be war at our seas, our land, our air, and space.

but yeah, the finger that the president uses to pick is nose can simply press a button and take out all of china.(even if we fight a strait conventional/non-convetnional war)

The_Right_Honourable · Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 682 Location: UK (mostly)

Globalisation is making another world war impossible. Itd be economic suicide.

Oh. The US and Taiwan have a treaty of mutual defence. China will never invade.

Lancaster · Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Ottawa

dgs_vex wrote: actually i think it would scare china more than it would the US.

you know how many troops we can land on the shores of china?

Ahh, it's good to see the Americans still have a nice illusion of invincibility.

Do you really think you could win a war with China? You are tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan, and your army may be large, but it isn't China large.

Estimates of China's military size put it between 1-2 million. That's 1-2 MILLION. Don't forget that's in peace time, they could easily quadruple it through conscription during wartime.

Also, don't even mention your Nuclear might, China is just as armed to the teeth as you are.

Also, you were the second nation with anti-satallite satellites. China won that race with Hsinghua, which shows that you really do have no idea of the capability's of China.

thundertaker · Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:
you know how many troops we can land on the shores of china?

I'll bet it's nowhere near as many as there would be Chinese troops facing them in return. They could probably attack you in human wave attacks, stark naked, and armed only with pointy sticks and still come out on top through sheer weight of numbers........

dgs_vex · Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 117

tis a 2x post.

dgs_vex · Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 117

Lancaster wrote: dgs_vex wrote: actually i think it would scare china more than it would the US.

you know how many troops we can land on the shores of china?

Ahh, it's good to see the Americans still have a nice illusion of invincibility.

Do you really think you could win a war with China? You are tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan, and your army may be large, but it isn't China large.

Estimates of China's military size put it between 1-2 million. That's 1-2 MILLION. Don't forget that's in peace time, they could easily quadruple it through conscription during wartime.

Also, don't even mention your Nuclear might, China is just as armed to the teeth as you are.

Also, you were the second nation with anti-satallite satellites. China won that race with Hsinghua, which shows that you really do have no idea of the capability's of China.

you forget. i live on base. we have troops in the middle east but the majority has already returned home.

if china ever builds a human bridge across the pacific. i would be amazed. tis would be the 2nd man made object you can see from outer space.

china 2, usa 0. they win.

Lancaster · Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Ottawa

You seem to think that because you are close to the guns that makes them somehow more effective?

Also, I don't remember anybody saying China would build a human bridge, but that was a nice attempt at a joke. Next time you could try making it funny.

dgs_vex · Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 117

Canadians these days.

well good luck on your invasion. ill be waiting on the other side. well actually we will be waiting on two sides.

you know. actually the third fleet itself can but china into submission. think about it. who is the only navy that guards the middle east>the gulf of Oman>boarders 6 oil rich countries and four of them cant export oil the gulf. o-$heit, thats us!

china doesn't have any major allies in the middle east. but don't worry. we wont starve them. its just a highly strategic spot and a method of deterrence.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

If China and the US fought it out in conventional warfare (ignoring allies, which America would actually have and China probably would not) China would be crushed, I don't think anyone serious doubts this. I don't think those who doubt this know the first thing about warfare, or have ever read anything by anyone who does.

I doubt the Chinese would even dare to launch their airforce, which means they wouldn't dare to laucnh their ships and they wouldn't dare to move their troops out over open country. Even getting this far assumes that the government wouldn't collapse as soon their control cracked.

On the other hand America could not occupy China without serious societal will and support akin to the level shown in WWII. Then again they wouldn't need to unless they wanted to rebuild the place.

thundertaker · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:51 am Post subject:

I think it's pretty much a given that if the Chinese tried to fight outside their territory, they'd be destroyed fairly quickly. But how on earth would America and it's allies be able to invade and occupy a country that could have potentially 100s of millions of men under arms?

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: I think it's pretty much a given that if the Chinese tried to fight outside their territory, they'd be destroyed fairly quickly. But how on earth would America and it's allies be able to invade and occupy a country that could have potentially 100s of millions of men under arms?

They wouldn't need to occupy the country in order to topple the government.

Lancaster · Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Ottawa

I don't know what you are talking about when you say China has no middle eastern allies, you ever hear of the Shanghai five?

Also, America doesn't exactly have a sparkling reputation in the middle east. Kuwait and Israel are about the only two countries in the middle east they could set up camp in without having their bases bombarded daily by pissed off Muslims.

And reason, I do know about warfare, I have read Sun Tsu. I also have read many things on the more recent wars, like Korea, where China kicked America's ass.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

dgs_vex wrote: Canadians these days.

well good luck on your invasion. ill be waiting on the other side. well actually we will be waiting on two sides.

you know. actually the third fleet itself can but china into submission. think about it. who is the only navy that guards the middle east>the gulf of Oman>boarders 6 oil rich countries and four of them cant export oil the gulf. o-$heit, thats us!

china doesn't have any major allies in the middle east. but don't worry. we wont starve them. its just a highly strategic spot and a method of deterrence.

Yeah, I am quite certain that other nations are right there ready to aid the US. Afterall, they owe you for all those years you installed dictators and toppled popular and efficient governments.

:lol: :lol: