Political Crossfire Forums

Zoot · Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 2194

He's going to start talking about the development of the foetus and stuff, I think.

It still seems very obvious to me that:

a. There is no good reason to believe in any gods.
b. Absolute value and morality are contradictions in terms.
c. Religions and religious tendencies can be very simply explained in terms of evolutionary psychology.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: b. Absolute value and morality are contradictions in terms.

Can you elaborate?

Patience · Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 62

Reason wrote: Quote: why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world today?

Because Muslim majority countries tend to be poor and largely illiterate leading to higher birth rates and faster population growth?

Quote: Why are there, then, so many converts to Islam?

Aggressive marriage practices, parlty, and the authouritarian tone of it's most prominent propents captures the weak of mind.

Quote: Myth: Mohammed wrote the Quran

Well if he didn't who did?

Quote: According to the commentaries by Yusif Ali [1281], the root meaning of Jizya is compensation. The derived meaning, which became the technical meaning, was a poll-tax levied from those who did not accept Islam, but were willing to live under the protection of Islam [Protection against surrounding Christian Crusaders and Pagans] and were thus tacitly willing to submit to its ideals being enforced in the Muslim State.

You mean who lived on their land that happened to be within the borders of an area that a Muslim chief claimed?

Reason, you dont have any reason in ur words!!!!! :?

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Reason, you dont have any reason in ur words!!!!! Confused

Which part of my post lacked reason?

Because Muslim majority countries tend to be poor and largely illiterate leading to higher birth rates and faster population growth?

This is a fact, surely you won't dispute it?

Aggressive marriage practices, partly, and the authouritarian tone of it's most prominent proponents captures the weak of mind.

The Belgian women who blew herself up recently, was she attracted by a doctrine of peace and beauty or by an aggressive bastardization of your holy scriptutes. She is represenative of many of the converts, in the fact that whilst she thought (and others thought) she was converting to Islam she was actually converting to authouritarian terrorism with a superficial Islamic tint.

Aggressive marriage practises is also a fact, a video found in the UK called on Muslims to marry Hindu and Sikh women and convert them.

Well if he didn't who did?

It's a question, it certainly doesn't display a lack of reason....

You mean who lived on their land that happened to be within the borders of an area that a Muslim chief claimed?

This is simply a statement of fact, also. Or did the non-Muslims who paid the Dhimmi tax not live on land that a Muslim chief claimed?

My post was eminently reasonable, and your reply was lacking in anything but an insult. Maybe you should try to justify yourself?

Zeeman · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:02 am Post subject:

Reason, they meant people converting to Islam and not born into it when they consider that.

Also I think you mean India(not Muslim majority),Pakistan and Afghanistan(in war for more than 20 years) when you classify as poor,illiterate and high birth rates.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Also I think you mean India(not Muslim majority),Pakistan and Afghanistan(in war for more than 20 years) when you classify as poor,illiterate and high birth rates.

Outside the UAE it's not like Arab or muslim countries are exactly economic successes or oases of enlightened liberty....I mean unless you count oil.....where else in the world is a king the most liberal and tolerant leader?

Quote: Reason, they meant people converting to Islam and not born into it when they consider that.

Yes because evreybody wants to be Muslim, I mean it's got the best Public Relations - fundies in beards killing innocents...If I had a bunch of people randomnly killing others in the name of my beliefs I'd be a lot more pissed off, you should be bloody furious that these people are misrepresenting your beliefs and making them look barbaric and medieval. I know that you are for peace and tolerance and those are your beliefs, but a little less tolerance of madmen professing your faith would go a long way.

Zeeman · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:46 am Post subject:

I agree about the PR thing,which makes that statistic more astounding.Could it be maybe that people who discover the religion for what it is realize thats wrong and discover the essence of Islam as we know it..Surely you dont think every Muslim is like that.

BTW UAE isnt the only country.Bahrain doesnt even have any oil left and its surviving and turning into an open economy more and more.I am sure there are other successes in the Arab World

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: BTW UAE isnt the only country.Bahrain doesnt even have any oil left and its surviving and turning into an open economy more and more.I am sure there are other successes in the Arab World

Isn't Bahrain in the UAE?

DawoodN · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 128 Location: Boston, MA

Quote: Because Muslim majority countries tend to be poor and largely illiterate leading to higher birth rates and faster population growth?

I'd also add the following reasons for the illiteracy and poverty:

- colonialism and the consequent destruction of the intellectual and social capital that existed in these nations
- ignorance of their own belief
- miseducation by people who have a clear conflict of interest (and a corrupt intention).
- the ideologies of the religions/customs that preceeded Islam in that they dictated particular frames of mind and particular rituals that exist inspite of their contradiction with Islam... in fact, to many they appear to be a part of Islam.[/quote]

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: - colonialism and the consequent destruction of the intellectual and social capital that existed in these nations

Colonialism whilst wrong, can not be held as the cause of the problems. Does the US, Australia, NZ or Canada suffer from these problems? Saudi Aravia was never properly colonised, does it represent an oasis of enlightened thinking?

Quote: - ignorance of their own belief

How can one be ignorant of one's own beliefs? You are ignorant of soemthing then it probably isn't your belief....

Quote: - miseducation by people who have a clear conflict of interest (and a corrupt intention).

That would be the government, and could more easily be represented by the term 'education by the government'.

Zeeman · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:48 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: BTW UAE isnt the only country.Bahrain doesnt even have any oil left and its surviving and turning into an open economy more and more.I am sure there are other successes in the Arab World

Isn't Bahrain in the UAE?

Nope its an independent country(Island). In the 70's there was a proposal to unite Bahrain,UAE and Qatar.That would have been a fantastic achievement but none of the rulers wanted to be governed by someone else..

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote:
Nope its an independent country(Island). In the 70's there was a proposal to unite Bahrain,UAE and Qatar.That would have been a fantastic achievement but none of the rulers wanted to be governed by someone else..

THe best thing that could have happened was to stay small. Small countries generally have better, more liberal and tolerant governance. From which those countries have benefited enormously.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16432 Location: On Earth

Quote: THe best thing that could have happened was to stay small. Small countries generally have better, more liberal and tolerant governance. From which those countries have benefited enormously.

Well, why not support a union? If it was going to be economically beneficial, then by all means...

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Well, why not support a union? If it was going to be economically beneficial, then by all means...

Big countries tend to have worse governance: Bahrain - Saudi Arabia; Taiwan - China; Switzerland - Germany; Monaco - France; Eire - Britain; Singapore - Malaysia; etc. You can have free trade without union, and otherwise there's no reason why union would bring about greater economic benefits.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16432 Location: On Earth

Reason wrote: Quote: Well, why not support a union? If it was going to be economically beneficial, then by all means...

Big countries tend to have worse governance: Bahrain - Saudi Arabia; Taiwan - China; Switzerland - Germany; Monaco - France; Eire - Britain; Singapore - Malaysia; etc. You can have free trade without union, and otherwise there's no reason why union would bring about greater economic benefits.

Let's discuss this in another topic. :wink:

Patience · Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 62

Jews For Allah
Jewish Converts to Islam

Converts from around the world
Listed by country.

More Stories of Converts to Islam

Yet More Converts
Listed by gender, nationality and former religion or belief system.

Web Sites Built By Converts To Islam

ConvertsToIslam.org
A website by and for converts.

To visit these sites you can go to:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/converts.htm#Links

jeechoscopy · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:15 am Post subject:

One of my Indian relaters in Indore –India, told me that a Hindu family converted Islam. But they converted back to Hinduism, because they were warned to kill.

The day’s scenario of the world is like a warning to the people who want to hug Islam. A die-hard struggle toward prevention the conversion!! An image builder lobby is disfiguring Islam, with so-called Reasoning.

Though, Christianity has so many reasonless believe like, the Son of God, truth of bible, Angels, the life after death… etc, etc. Reason? Proof?

If believes should have to give reasons, so why the existence of believes?
Any religion is out of the reason. That makes a belief a belief.

If you believe in God, so why not in his book?

“Why” is an endless question you couldn’t persuade it.

However, I’m lovin’ to hear about a "conversion story."

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: If you believe in God, so why not in his book?

There is no God, and thus he doesn't have a book. If I'm wrong then I expect God, not humanity, to deal with my unbelief. So a fundie of any creed trying to punish me for some sin that only involves me or other consenting adults can p*ss off and I'll return the favour.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16432 Location: On Earth

Reason wrote: Quote: If you believe in God, so why not in his book?

There is no God, and thus he doesn't have a book. If I'm wrong then I expect God, not humanity, to deal with my unbelief. So a fundie of any creed trying to punish me for some sin that only involves me or other consenting adults can p*ss off and I'll return the favour.

That's what you believe, Reason. We have our own.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16432 Location: On Earth

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069&q=islam

This is interesting...