Political Crossfire Forums

AstroZombie · Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Posts: 283

Or neither?

I know this has been discussed before, but I've never seen a poll put forth as straightly as this.

Thoughts?

thundertaker · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject:

Ooh, as Eve said to Adam the first time she clapped eyes on him in the Garden of Eden, 'damn that's a hard one'.... Er, BAD!

The man was an hysterical modern-day witchfinder general, persecuting many innocent people for the non-crime of being a member of the communist party. How on earth could he be construed as good unless you're a complete far right-wing nutjob who believes anyone to the left of Ronald Reagan should be shot for treason?

Korimyr the Rat · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 983 Location: Wyoming

Bad. He undermined the American government with his investigations and desecrated the very principles this country was founded upon. He attacked not only Communists but his political enemies, and, not even a decade after World War II, the US Army.

DumbTeen · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject:

Quote: How on earth could he be construed as good unless you're a complete far right-wing nutjob who believes anyone to the left of Ronald Reagan should be shot for treason?
Reagan was a pinko and a coward for his numerous surrenders to Gorbachev and Iran. But that naturally comes to anyone from film-making and similar artsy-fartsy crap.

BobbyO · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Brooklyn, USA

He gave anti-communism a bad name, so in that respect he was bad. However, as we have confirmed over the past decade, his concerns were quite valid.

Axismaster · Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 36 Location: Michigan

You have to give the man credit for being concerned about the very real threat of communism, but that man was also a paranoid nutbag. When you think of how Julius and Ethel Rosenburg were executed, that just explains why McCarthyism was bad and was sinking just as low as our communist enemies. Even anti-communist Ayn Rand didn't like McCarthy.

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 23046 Location: ZzZzZzZz

DumbTeen wrote: Quote: How on earth could he be construed as good unless you're a complete far right-wing nutjob who believes anyone to the left of Ronald Reagan should be shot for treason?
Reagan was a pinko and a coward for his numerous surrenders to Gorbachev and Iran. But that naturally comes to anyone from film-making and similar artsy-fartsy crap. nice attitude man. :hip:

McCarthy was a one trick pony, no other tactics except rabid demagoguery. Wasteful and stupid.

thebreadloaf2003 · Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 213 Location: Texas

I voted neither because it was good or bad depending on what side you were on. If you were a loyal communist it was bad because you were accused tried and what not. If you were a die hard patriot, it was good because "all those damn commys will fianly be gone" (thats not my quote, just a joke).

however for a neutral person such as myself who is niether fully loyal to patriotism or communism it was negative, for it infringed the idea that america is a country of tolerence (which i have to come to realize a while ago that it is not) and that anyone is welcome. if you were a communist in lets say, greece where the Truman doctrine was active, and you for some reason were not allowed back into russia, and you came to america for the freedom to exercise your ideas freely and you are arrested for it, then that would make america no longer the country of free expression.

_reticentness · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 11

I voted bad. He was a bit too obsessed.

thebreadloaf2003 · Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 213 Location: Texas

_reticentness wrote: I voted bad. He was a bit too obsessed.

yea but if you lok at obsession through the view of completion and accuracy, obsessing over somthing can make the outcome more powerful and fulfilling than if you are attached to somthing with a normal standpoint. Throught obsession, you can find flaws and weaknesses that wouldnt be as apparent if you didn't consume yourself into it.

so if you voted that it was good, his obsession made the outcome that much more productive in your views...like i said earlier, it was neither good or bad, it just depends on your standpoint of what you think is right wrong; good bad

Nico · Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 10827 Location: Auckland

Repression among the populace, purging society of it's perceived 'enemies'. Ruining ordinary lives. Report your parents.A one trick pony riding a self-promoted fear wave to a position of eminence. bad.

thefranzkafkafront · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject:

Might as well ask, concentration camps good or bad?

davidnw23 · Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 13

thebreadloaf2003 wrote: _reticentness wrote: I voted bad. He was a bit too obsessed.

yea but if you lok at obsession through the view of completion and accuracy, obsessing over somthing can make the outcome more powerful and fulfilling than if you are attached to somthing with a normal standpoint. Throught obsession, you can find flaws and weaknesses that wouldnt be as apparent if you didn't consume yourself into it.

so if you voted that it was good, his obsession made the outcome that much more productive in your views...like i said earlier, it was neither good or bad, it just depends on your standpoint of what you think is right wrong; good bad

Sorry, but the man ruined careers and lives due to political differences. Being a communist does not mean treason, unless you were giving a foreigh country or organization secrets or you were trying to undermine the Constitution.

BobbyO · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Brooklyn, USA

Quote: Sorry, but the man ruined careers and lives due to political differences. Being a communist does not mean treason, unless you were giving a foreigh country or organization secrets or you were trying to undermine the Constitution. [/quote]

But we know the communists were doing just that. We also know they were in the direct pay and support of the USSR.

davidnw23 · Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 13

BobbyO wrote: Quote: Sorry, but the man ruined careers and lives due to political differences. Being a communist does not mean treason, unless you were giving a foreigh country or organization secrets or you were trying to undermine the Constitution.

But we know the communists were doing just that. We also know they were in the direct pay and support of the USSR.[/quote]

Hi Bobbi, Yes there were some traitors that were found, but far more were innocent people, who were forced out of their jobs and had their reputations besmirched. Mccarthy was like a nuclear weapon where a pistol was needed. The price was far more than it was worth.

thebreadloaf2003 · Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 213 Location: Texas

davidnw23 wrote: thebreadloaf2003 wrote: _reticentness wrote: I voted bad. He was a bit too obsessed.

yea but if you lok at obsession through the view of completion and accuracy, obsessing over somthing can make the outcome more powerful and fulfilling than if you are attached to somthing with a normal standpoint. Throught obsession, you can find flaws and weaknesses that wouldnt be as apparent if you didn't consume yourself into it.

so if you voted that it was good, his obsession made the outcome that much more productive in your views...like i said earlier, it was neither good or bad, it just depends on your standpoint of what you think is right wrong; good bad

Sorry, but the man ruined careers and lives due to political differences. Being a communist does not mean treason, unless you were giving a foreigh country or organization secrets or you were trying to undermine the Constitution.

which is your viewpoint of the subject which makes it bad in your mind, which goes back to what i said about good or bad is based on the viewpoint of the situation. to him it was good, to you its bad...its all based on a persons personal perspective

Nico · Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 10827 Location: Auckland

thebreadloaf2003 wrote: davidnw23 wrote: thebreadloaf2003 wrote: _reticentness wrote: I voted bad. He was a bit too obsessed.

yea but if you lok at obsession through the view of completion and accuracy, obsessing over somthing can make the outcome more powerful and fulfilling than if you are attached to somthing with a normal standpoint. Throught obsession, you can find flaws and weaknesses that wouldnt be as apparent if you didn't consume yourself into it.

so if you voted that it was good, his obsession made the outcome that much more productive in your views...like i said earlier, it was neither good or bad, it just depends on your standpoint of what you think is right wrong; good bad

Sorry, but the man ruined careers and lives due to political differences. Being a communist does not mean treason, unless you were giving a foreigh country or organization secrets or you were trying to undermine the Constitution.

which is your viewpoint of the subject which makes it bad in your mind, which goes back to what i said about good or bad is based on the viewpoint of the situation. to him it was good, to you its bad...its all based on a persons personal perspective

Fair enough, but it would take a special person to think that Mccarthy achieved a positive effect in the US. On the contrary he reduced the value of the way of life for ordinary people. Fear is no state to spend your waking hours in a country that prides itself of freedom of thought. he made thinking outside a narrow spectrum a potential crime and history rewarded him as he deserved.

phantom3380 · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 11

The Rosenbergs. Enough said?

BAD

FinnMacCool · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 2786

Everything said about McCarthy in terms of the negative are good but I also think that communists shouldn't have been discriminated against at all. If they wanted to join the COmmunist PArty or whatever else, they should've been free to do so.

aznninjahitman · Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 65

*note: I'm biased. :)

Same principles as the Ku Klux Klan... They seek to destroy what they fear or dislike, to make themselves feel better. They don't care about the Constitution, more about perpetuating the State that they prefer.

As others have brought up, we have freedom of speech and expression. As long as the Commies aren't working against the government in any way, no problem. Restricting them or discriminating against them is unConstitutional, inherently wrong morally, and just a blind lashing out to provide an outlet for fears.