Political Crossfire Forums

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

milo1047 wrote: Yo, just read your articles here...

The first one simply says "Hey, we don't know for sure, so it COULD be possible, I mean, there's not 100% evidence against it!"

The seond one can be summed up in this quote from the article:

Quote: Attempting to settle the matter solely upon the merits of empirical data will always leave one wanting.

Science depends entirely on empirical data. To discount it is not science. That is religious bullcrap. Then it goes on at length abotu basic DNA, etc. etc. and repeats basically what the first article said.

After this, I figured the rest would be more of the same.

Cute - but couldn't you have exaggerated just a little more?

Apparently you have missed an important distinction here. I'm not claiming, and have never claimed, that DNA evidence proves the Book of Mormon true. But, as with the articles I posted, and the numerous other articles which can be accessed by the main link ( http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai195.html ) my contention is with those who say that DNA evidence has proven the Book of Mormon false, when that claim is, itself, completely false. That it is repeated over and over, doesn't change that fact.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

BOggThe1rst wrote: Mormons around the world are in an identity crisis,

We are? :shock:

Quote: Many of them have come to their senses and renounced their faiths seeing as how they were believing pure lies and fabrications.

A statement like that is not surprising since your source material comes from anti-Mormon web sites. :roll:

Quote: This religion does not even deserve any debate because it loses against itself.

I guess that's why you haven't given it any. Rather ironic too, considering that you are posting on the topic, and you have started a thread on the topic. Interesting reflection upon you.

BOggThe1rst · Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 93

MJB wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: Mormons around the world are in an identity crisis,

We are? :shock:

Quote: Many of them have come to their senses and renounced their faiths seeing as how they were believing pure lies and fabrications.

A statement like that is not surprising since your source material comes from anti-Mormon web sites. :roll:

Quote: This religion does not even deserve any debate because it loses against itself.

I guess that's why you haven't given it any. Rather ironic too, considering that you are posting on the topic, and you have started a thread on the topic. Interesting reflection upon you.

You seem to think I am biased towards the Bible but I am not,
I am a firm believer in Gilgamesh and The Code of Hammurabi.

Why you continue to bury your head in the sand is a real wonder though,
You deny the authenticity of DNA evidence, you deny the archeological and cultural inexistence of the heresy conveyed in your "Book", etc...

The very fact that your "Church" refuses to actually dig for the ruins on your beloved mountain proves how they actually know of the forgery they portray since they would find nothing as they know there is nothing.

You can continue posting the same "mormonish" links to your tired and disaproved fairy tales or actually use your own words and tackle the seriousness of the bulls**t you've fed upon for so long, your call.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

BOggThe1rst wrote: MJB wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: Mormons around the world are in an identity crisis,

We are? :shock:

Quote: Many of them have come to their senses and renounced their faiths seeing as how they were believing pure lies and fabrications.

A statement like that is not surprising since your source material comes from anti-Mormon web sites. :roll:

Quote: This religion does not even deserve any debate because it loses against itself.

I guess that's why you haven't given it any. Rather ironic too, considering that you are posting on the topic, and you have started a thread on the topic. Interesting reflection upon you.

You seem to think I am biased towards the Bible but I am not,
I am a firm believer in Gilgamesh and The Code of Hammurabi.

Why you continue to bury your head in the sand is a real wonder though,
You deny the authenticity of DNA evidence, you deny the archeological and cultural inexistence of the heresy conveyed in your "Book", etc...

The very fact that your "Church" refuses to actually dig for the ruins on your beloved mountain proves how they actually know of the forgery they portray since they would find nothing as they know there is nothing.

You can continue posting the same "mormonish" links to your tired and disaproved fairy tales or actually use your own words and tackle the seriousness of the bulls**t you've fed upon for so long, your call.

Hey Bud - if anyone is burying their head in the sand, it's you. You're the one who posted anti-Mormon "Christian" (so called) ministry web sites as your source material, as if they're reliable. At least my sources give real scientific analysis, instead of yours with their biased anti-Mormon rhetoric. :P

Nathyn · Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 7914 Location: The Great Satan

Thrilla wrote: i dont like to be "recruited" either.. in fact .. that issue played a part in me leaving the church.
lol. dude. u messed that up at least more than once.

ikari · Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 7199 Location: Colorado

I'll never stop people from practicing Mormonism, it's a free country. But others to have the right to criticize a religion, any religion, if they choose. Me personally...I like to make fun of Scientology because that one is so made up it's sad. I mean come on...it's based of a bad sci-fi book.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

ikari wrote: I'll never stop people from practicing Mormonism, it's a free country. But others to have the right to criticize a religion, any religion, if they choose. Me personally...I like to make fun of Scientology because that one is so made up it's sad. I mean come on...it's based of a bad sci-fi book.

Well - you couldn't stop people from practicing Mormonism anyway. :wink:

But, indeed, it is a free country, and as such it affords each citizen the right and freedom to worship according to the dictates of his own conscience. Freedom of religion should be respected and revered and while no one must believe or adhere to any religion not of his choosing, it is disrespectful to make fun of those things others hold sacred.

ikari · Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 7199 Location: Colorado

MJB wrote: Well - you couldn't stop people from practicing Mormonism anyway. :wink:

Nor do I seek to. People can worship whatever deity they wish, be it some form of god or the flying spaghetti monster.

MJB wrote: But, indeed, it is a free country, and as such it affords each citizen the right and freedom to worship according to the dictates of his own conscience. Freedom of religion should be respected and revered and while no one must believe or adhere to any religion not of his choosing, it is disrespectful to make fun of those things others hold sacred.

Your right to freedom of religion does not usurp my right to free speech. There is no innate right against being offended, and if one wants to say something they are more than free to do so. Freedom of religion is respected by your innate right to practice whatever religion you choose. It does not mean that people can not speak out against it, or poke fun at it. You can not censor people just for saying things about a religion. As I will do nothing to stop people from practicing religion, people can not stop people from talking because they don't like what they say.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

ikari wrote: MJB wrote: Well - you couldn't stop people from practicing Mormonism anyway. :wink:

Nor do I seek to. People can worship whatever deity they wish, be it some form of god or the flying spaghetti monster.

MJB wrote: But, indeed, it is a free country, and as such it affords each citizen the right and freedom to worship according to the dictates of his own conscience. Freedom of religion should be respected and revered and while no one must believe or adhere to any religion not of his choosing, it is disrespectful to make fun of those things others hold sacred.

Your right to freedom of religion does not usurp my right to free speech. There is no innate right against being offended, and if one wants to say something they are more than free to do so. Freedom of religion is respected by your innate right to practice whatever religion you choose. It does not mean that people can not speak out against it, or poke fun at it. You can not censor people just for saying things about a religion. As I will do nothing to stop people from practicing religion, people can not stop people from talking because they don't like what they say.

Apparently you missed the point. Of course my right to religious freedom does not usurp your right to free speech. Having the freedom of speech, gives nearly any citizen the right to say nearly any mean or idiotic thing he pleases. However - just because you have that right, doesn't change the fact that it is disrespectful to make fun of those things others hold sacred.

Respect for religious freedom, does, by its nature, extend to the worshiper of other religious faiths, and his communion with deity, whatever that may be, is not made a mockery by those who do, indeed, respect that precious freedom.

You certainly are free to say whatever you please about religion. What you do say, however, shows how much respect you hold for that freedom.

ikari · Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 7199 Location: Colorado

One can respect your innate right to practice religion to its full by not doing anything to you to prevent your free practice of religion. Speaking out against a religion doesn't show that one "disrespects" the right, if one was to disrespect the right they would infringe upon your right to freely practice your religion of choice. It can be mocked by some if they so feel the need without showing disrespect for the right to freely exercise religion. They are merely exercising their own rights to say as they wish. It's the same for all those bible thumpers whom stand in middle of campus telling us we're going to hell because we are going to college, or because we are atheist, or because we aren't of their specific religion, etc. They have the right to say what they want, and I can't stop them for I have to respect their right to free speech. It doesn't mean I have to respect what they say, and if I don't respect what they are saying it doesn't mean that I have no respect for the freedom of speech. In fact it's just the opposite, I respect it so much that I shall not infringe upon your right to do so.

Whitefields · Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject:

ideal wrote: I would consider myself antimormon, but have strict rules against criticizing any religion that I don't consider to be harmful. That being said, I'll just point out that it's contradictory for a religion to use the bible in conjunction with any other holy text.

Revelation 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

That is talking exclusively about the book of Revelation, since it was written seperately and then joined with the rest of the books in the Bible.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

ikari wrote: One can respect your innate right to practice religion to its full by not doing anything to you to prevent your free practice of religion. Speaking out against a religion doesn't show that one "disrespects" the right, if one was to disrespect the right they would infringe upon your right to freely practice your religion of choice. It can be mocked by some if they so feel the need without showing disrespect for the right to freely exercise religion. They are merely exercising their own rights to say as they wish. It's the same for all those bible thumpers whom stand in middle of campus telling us we're going to hell because we are going to college, or because we are atheist, or because we aren't of their specific religion, etc. They have the right to say what they want, and I can't stop them for I have to respect their right to free speech. It doesn't mean I have to respect what they say, and if I don't respect what they are saying it doesn't mean that I have no respect for the freedom of speech. In fact it's just the opposite, I respect it so much that I shall not infringe upon your right to do so.

Apparently you are still missing the point, because it has nothing to do with you not being able to stop them because they have freedom of speech. It also has nothing to do with you respecting their freedom of speech so much that you won't infringe upon their right to it. It has nothing to do with anyone speaking out against another religion.

You seem intent on arguing freedom of speech here, when that's not, at all, what this is about, and you seem to be under the impression I'm for stifling free speech, if someone doesn't like what another says. That is totally off track, and nowhere I am, or have ever been.

I am speaking about showing disrespect for other's right to have their own beliefs, by mocking and making fun of them and their beliefs. I've seen those Bible thumper types yelling at others saying they are going to hell and making fun of them, and mocking them. They are not showing respect for the right of others to believe according to the dictates of their conscience.

I am not saying they don't have a right to say what they wish, nor am I suggesting that they should be denied the right to voice their opinion. This has absolutely nothing to do with one's right to speak openly and publicly under the Constitution.

What I am saying, is that it shows a disrespect for the religious freedom of another person to mock and make fun of what he finds to be sacred. I'm not saying making fun of another's religion is denying him his rights or freedoms. I'm saying it shows disrespect for them.

There is also a major difference between simply speaking out against something publicly, and mocking and making fun of it. Neither denies the religious freedom of another, but the latter is, indeed, disrespectful.

Simply put - only disrespectful people make fun of others and what they hold sacred. Respectful people don't, even if they speak publicly against it.

ikari · Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 7199 Location: Colorado

Apparently it is you whom is missing the fine detail. You can disrespect a religion without disrespecting someone's innate right to freedom of religion.

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

Thrilla wrote: wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon
Well, it's a nutty religion - it's hard NOT to ridicule. I don't see why they think they need Special Pleading. Other wacky belief systems are mocked, why not Mormonism?

Seriously, it is wacky. Scientology, too.

Here is a great video on Mormonism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7v_V8qSIIo

I would encourage everyone to watch it and comment,.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

mODULAR mAN wrote: Thrilla wrote: wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon
Well, it's a nutty religion - it's hard NOT to ridicule. I don't see why they think they need Special Pleading. Other wacky belief systems are mocked, why not Mormonism?

Seriously, it is wacky. Scientology, too.

Here is a great video on Mormonism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7v_V8qSIIo

I would encourage everyone to watch it and comment,.

:roll:

Oh brother! That has got to be one of the lamest things I have ever seen!

Let's see - I'd say at least 90% is utter and complete bull manure, with the remainder being distortions, at best. You'd probably be hard pressed to find a single sentence in the whole video that is entirely true.

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

MJB wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: Thrilla wrote: wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon
Well, it's a nutty religion - it's hard NOT to ridicule. I don't see why they think they need Special Pleading. Other wacky belief systems are mocked, why not Mormonism?

Seriously, it is wacky. Scientology, too.

Here is a great video on Mormonism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7v_V8qSIIo

I would encourage everyone to watch it and comment,.

:roll:

Oh brother! That has got to be one of the lamest things I have ever seen!

Let's see - I'd say at least 90% is utter and complete bull manure, with the remainder being distortions, at best. You'd probably be hard pressed to find a single sentence in the whole video that is entirely true.

Funny. Other mormons have called it basically true.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

mODULAR mAN wrote: MJB wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: Thrilla wrote: wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon
Well, it's a nutty religion - it's hard NOT to ridicule. I don't see why they think they need Special Pleading. Other wacky belief systems are mocked, why not Mormonism?

Seriously, it is wacky. Scientology, too.

Here is a great video on Mormonism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7v_V8qSIIo

I would encourage everyone to watch it and comment,.

:roll:

Oh brother! That has got to be one of the lamest things I have ever seen!

Let's see - I'd say at least 90% is utter and complete bull manure, with the remainder being distortions, at best. You'd probably be hard pressed to find a single sentence in the whole video that is entirely true.

Funny. Other mormons have called it basically true.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah - okay - well then these "other" Mormons (whoever they would be) weren't paying attention.

BOggThe1rst · Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 93

Are you going to further shove your head in the sand or actually tackle the facts laid upon the table?
Everyone here has brought up clear misrepresentations found in your "book",
Are you going to take them into account and prove us wrong or continue posting "mormon" websites?

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

BOggThe1rst wrote: Are you going to further shove your head in the sand or actually tackle the facts laid upon the table?
Everyone here has brought up clear misrepresentations found in your "book",
Are you going to take them into account and prove us wrong or continue posting "mormon" websites?

No, "facts," have been laid upon the table, just accusations which the articles in the links I posted have addressed. But if you wish to shove your head further into the sand and ignore what they have to say - that's your prerogative.

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

MJB wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: MJB wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: Thrilla wrote: wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon
Well, it's a nutty religion - it's hard NOT to ridicule. I don't see why they think they need Special Pleading. Other wacky belief systems are mocked, why not Mormonism?

Seriously, it is wacky. Scientology, too.

Here is a great video on Mormonism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7v_V8qSIIo

I would encourage everyone to watch it and comment,.

:roll:

Oh brother! That has got to be one of the lamest things I have ever seen!

Let's see - I'd say at least 90% is utter and complete bull manure, with the remainder being distortions, at best. You'd probably be hard pressed to find a single sentence in the whole video that is entirely true.

Funny. Other mormons have called it basically true.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah - okay - well then these "other" Mormons (whoever they would be) weren't paying attention.

Or, maybe you aren't paying attention or looking into your religion. Either way, what do you say about this?

Quote: In 1835, the Church issued an official statement indicating that because the United States government allowed slavery, the Church would not "interfere with bond-servants, neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters, nor meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life, thereby jeopardizing the lives of men." (LDS D&C Covenant 134:12).