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naezen
Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: 1972 Munich Massacre |
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I just watched Steven Spielburg's "Munich" and I was wondering why the hostage rescuse attempt was so botched up.
The Israeli's asked to help in retrieving their comrades but the Germans refused. Why? The Germans had no army after WWII. Their police force was weak. The snipers they used were untrained. They owed the Jews for their atrocities. So why?
One, the Germans wanted to show the world that not having a strong police/military force is detrimental not only to the Germans but to those in Germany.
Two, they didn't want to appear to be too weak by accepting Israeli's offer to do what they should be doing; protecting Olympic athletes.
Three, they're just stupid.
They definitely wanted to rescue those hostages though. They offered unlimited amounts of money as well as the replacement of the Israeli athletes with high ranking German officials.
But why would they reject Israel? |
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ZionForever
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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I woudn't take that movie scene for scene. If you're really interested in it, try some of these books:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743291646/qid=1136697277/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-2745141-0181755?n=507846&s=books&v=glance
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743291646/qid=1136697277/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-2745141-0181755?n=507846&s=books&v=glance
Also, the Germans don't "owe" us anything, they should just have a recognition of their past. |
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thorn
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 2743
Location: some rainy place
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
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In the beginning (after 1945 that is) West Germany had no Army or paramilitary forces, that is correct. However, after Eastern Germany introduced something like a military, Western Germany got itself a Bundesgrenzschutz (Federal Border Guard) which is to this day the federal police. In 1955, Germany introduced the Bundeswehr (Federal Army), as the Western Allies wanted the German government to contribute to their own defense, keeping the Reds at bay as long as possible (and the Allies had to allow Germany to have an Army, because Germany was only partly sovereign until reunification 15 years ago).
By our Grundgesetz (Basic Law) the military is forbidden to be used in Germany, unless it is a state of emergency (natural disaster or war). The hostage crisis in Munich was a police matter, however, the local police as well as the Border Guards were not used to this situation, and had no capabilities wrt anti-terror or hostage cases (they now do have). So yes, they were too weak to help and I wouldn't be surprised if they refused the Israeli's help and expertise out of pride and a fear of being labelled unable to help people in danger, especially Israelis, and especially after what the Germans did 1933-45 (the German psyche is very weird sometimes). However, we Germans also have a huge problem with the forces of foreign countries acting up on our soil. Any country. Sorry for that.
As for the people in charge at the time being too stupid, I doubt that.
As for us not owing the Israelis anything: true, nowaday's Germans don't owe you anything but recognition of the mistakes of the past. |
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venator
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 853
Location: New Europe
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: |
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thorn wrote: In the beginning (after 1945 that is) West Germany had no Army or paramilitary forces, that is correct. However, after Eastern Germany introduced something like a military, Western Germany got itself a Bundesgrenzschutz (Federal Border Guard) which is to this day the federal police. In 1955, Germany introduced the Bundeswehr (Federal Army), as the Western Allies wanted the German government to contribute to their own defense, keeping the Reds at bay as long as possible (and the Allies had to allow Germany to have an Army, because Germany was only partly sovereign until reunification 15 years ago).
By our Grundgesetz (Basic Law) the military is forbidden to be used in Germany, unless it is a state of emergency (natural disaster or war). The hostage crisis in Munich was a police matter, however, the local police as well as the Border Guards were not used to this situation, and had no capabilities wrt anti-terror or hostage cases (they now do have). So yes, they were too weak to help and I wouldn't be surprised if they refused the Israeli's help and expertise out of pride and a fear of being labelled unable to help people in danger, especially Israelis, and especially after what the Germans did 1933-45 (the German psyche is very weird sometimes). However, we Germans also have a huge problem with the forces of foreign countries acting up on our soil. Any country. Sorry for that.
As for the people in charge at the time being too stupid, I doubt that.
As for us not owing the Israelis anything: true, nowaday's Germans don't owe you anything but recognition of the mistakes of the past.
Germany has literally payed its debt towards the Jewish community by giving billions of dollars worth of damages to Holocaust victims and Jewish organizations... |
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ZionForever
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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venator wrote:
Germany has literally payed its debt towards the Jewish community by giving billions of dollars worth of damages to Holocaust victims and Jewish organizations...
Absolutely false. My grandmother has received barely anything compared to what she had prior to the war. |
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venator
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 853
Location: New Europe
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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ZionForever wrote: venator wrote:
Germany has literally payed its debt towards the Jewish community by giving billions of dollars worth of damages to Holocaust victims and Jewish organizations...
Absolutely false. My grandmother has received barely anything compared to what she had prior to the war.
Agreed, - most of the money went to Jewish organizations - not the actual victims. In fact one of my best friends - of Polish-Jewish descent said sth similiar. His grandmother (a survivor of Auschwitz) also received only symbolic compensation... :-|
Thus it is I believe rather a problem of distributing money, than a problem of whether Germany has paid or not... |
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