Political Crossfire Forums

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

Mikhail Gorbachev Stated to the Politiburo in November of 1987

Quote: Gentlemen, Comrades, do not be concerned about all you hear about glasnost and perestroika and democracy in the coming years. These are Primarily for outward consumption. There will be no significant internal change within the Soviet Union, other than for cosmetic purposes. Our purpose is to disarm the Americans and let them fall asleep.

Quote: "We will proceed toward better socialism rather than away from it. We are saying this honestly, without trying to fool our own people or the world. Any hopes that we will begin to build a different, non-socialist society and go over to the other camp are unrealistic and futile. Those in the West who expect us to give up socialism will be disappointed."
Mikhail Gorbachev Perestroika - New Thinking for Our Country and the World 1988

Quote: "The Soviet strategy of 'perestroika' must be exposed because it is deceptive, aggressive and dangerous. Gorbachev and 'glastnost' have failed to reveal that 'perestroika' is a world-wide political assault against the Western democracies.... It must be revealed that 'perestroika' is ... not just Soviet domestic renewal but a strategy for 'restructuring' the whole world.... Gorbachev's renunciation of ideological orthodoxy is not sincere or lasting, but a tactical manoeuvre in the cause of the strategy. The Soviets are not striving for genuine, lasting accommodation with the Western democracies but for the final world victory of Communism..."
Anatoliy Golitsyn The Perestroika Deception 1990

And the Day Reagan Died, Bush Sr said Quote: "A lot of things happened under his watch that were very very positive toward a new world
order.,..." Film clip http://www.robodoon.com/VIDEO/Bush%20says%20Reagan.wmv

The Darling of the Right was bought and paid for, and Communism isn't dead, we are.

We have been tricked. The fact that America is practicing "THIRD WAY POLICY" today proves communism is alive and well in America.

TODAY Mikhail Gorbachev works with Steven Rockefeller and Maurice Strong in Crafting a NEW RELIGION FOR THE WORLD http://www.robodoon.com/earth_charter.htm via the UNITED NATIONS which is a Communist Body.

pedagogue · Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 3752 Location: Galveston, TX

What really did in the Soviet Union was the practice of our developing a new aircraft prototype, for which the Soviet Union would respond to that prototype with whole operational squadrons ... it bankrupted them. I mean evertime that the Soviet Union almost got to the point they could crow about something, we'd toss out another aircraft prototype that we had absolutely no intention of developing but that would keep the Soviet Union so tied up in knots to keep up that they couldn't do much else. What was really funny was how many times we threw the Osprey at them ... and they responded just like Pavlov's dog.

Then a funny thing happened under Bush ... Bush made the Osprey operational. I mean, geez, what a dolt! We could have used the Osprey well into the 21st century doing just exactly the same.

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

pedagogue wrote: What really did in the Soviet Union was the practice of our developing a new aircraft prototype, for which the Soviet Union would respond to that prototype with whole operational squadrons ... it bankrupted them. I mean evertime that the Soviet Union almost got to the point they could crow about something, we'd toss out another aircraft prototype that we had absolutely no intention of developing but that would keep the Soviet Union so tied up in knots to keep up that they couldn't do much else. What was really funny was how many times we threw the Osprey at them ... and they responded just like Pavlov's dog.

Then a funny thing happened under Bush ... Bush made the Osprey operational. I mean, geez, what a dolt! We could have used the Osprey well into the 21st century doing just exactly the same.

20 years ago the Soviets had a more technological advance Military then we did, and we funded it..

Dr Stan Monteith interviews General, Lewis William Walt of the USMC, this interview took place in 1980

Quote: General Walt goes over the troubles faced during war and how some of the troubles were purposely caused by power that were suppose to be working for US. Topics of the empowerment of Communism are also touched on , which are upsetting to learn
http://www.robodoon.com/VIDEO/Gen%20Walt.wmv The ONLY PLACE THIS VIDEO EXISTS for the public to viewing, but if its not for profit feel free to copy the video and post it as you like.

Russia has lots of wealth, but we keep giving them money....in short the powers that control communism, control our presidents or our government...because Communism has never really been...its always been the AAE.

stix · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 2036 Location: VA

To the topic of this thread and to the poster:

THANK YOU

Although i haven't heard many people on this forum claim otherwise.

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

stix wrote: To the topic of this thread and to the poster:

THANK YOU

Although i haven't heard many people on this forum claim otherwise.

;) thanks, this sort of post glasses the eyes of most people, glad to hear some understand ;)

HayeksRevenge · Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 1475

Well, I wouldn't say we have been tricked, but Communism is not dead in Russia. Putin is a Communist. He may pretend to not be, but it is evident to anyone who pays attention.

Reagan did defeat the Soviet empire. He had help from an inept Gorbachev, to be sure. But, had we had a President that wanted to appease the Russians rather than stand up to them, I'm sure the Soviet empire would still be in existance and not in shambles. No revisionist of history will change that fact.

buddha · Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 703

Robodoon wrote:

20 years ago the Soviets had a more technological advance Military then we did, and we funded it..

Again you don't know what your taking about. In the 80's the USSR and it's allies had a numerical advantage over the US and it's allies. The USSR only had a technological advantage in electronic warfare in the early 80's, but by the mid to late eighties the US has surpassed the USSR their too. Some of the USSR's weapon were mechanically better (AK-47 for one), as in better reliability, but that is different then having a technological advantage.

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

HayeksRevenge wrote: Well, I wouldn't say we have been tricked, but Communism is not dead in Russia. Putin is a Communist. He may pretend to not be, but it is evident to anyone who pays attention.

Reagan did defeat the Soviet empire. He had help from an inept Gorbachev, to be sure. But, had we had a President that wanted to appease the Russians rather than stand up to them, I'm sure the Soviet empire would still be in existance and not in shambles. No revisionist of history will change that fact.

I'm not talking about Revisionism...I'm talking about what really happened.

Remember, the parties of interest got control of our controlling media in the USA in 1915

Has the Definition of Democracy been changed over the years?

- Democracy
A goverment of the masses.
Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of 'direct' expression.
Results in mobocracy.
Attitude toward property is communistic - negating property rights.
Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate,... without restraint or regard to consequences.
Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
Army Training Manual Concerning Citizenship 1928

And the Words of old wisdom
From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/federalist/

"Those who hope that we shall move away from the socialist path will be greatly disappointed. Every part of our program of perestroika...is fully based on the principle of more socialism and more democracy."
Mikhail Gorbachev Perestroika - New Thinking for Our Country and the World 1988

More socialism means more democracy, openness and collectivism in everyday life..."
Mikhail Gorbachev Perestroika - New Thinking for Our Country and the World 1988

Gorby is helping Agenda 21, he works out of a 2 billion dollar piece of US land that American citizens my find hard to visit.

"...I would like to be clearly understood...we, the Soviet people, are for socialism.... We want more socialism and, therefore, more democracy."
Mikhail Gorbachev Perestroika - New Thinking for Our Country and the World 1988

"Socialism has a bad name in America, and no amount of wishful thinking on the part of the left is going to change that.... The words Economic Democracy are an adequate and effective replacement."
Derek Shearer cited in Reason 1982

"If we do not follow the dictates of our inner moral compass and stand up for human life, then his lawlessness will threaten the peace and democracy of the emerging new world order we now see, this long dreamed-of vision we've all worked toward for so long."

President George Bush (January 1991)

The "new world order that is in the making must focus on the creation of a world of democracy, peace and prosperity for all."

Nelson Mandela, in The Philadelphia Inquirer (October 1994)

"It's my conviction that the human race has entered a stage where we are all dependent on each other. No other country or nation should be regarded in total separation from another, let alone pitted against another. That's what our communist vocabulary calls internationalism and it means promoting universal human values."
Mikhail Gorbachev Perestroika - New Thinking for Our Country and the World 1988

"... when the struggle seems to be drifting definitely towards a world social democracy, there may still be very great delays and disappointments before it becomes an efficient and beneficent world system. Countless people ... will hate the new world order ... and will die protesting against it. When we attempt to evaluate its promise, we have to bear in mind the distress of a generation or so of malcontents, many of them quite gallant and graceful-looking people."

[FABIAN SOCIALIST] H. G. Wells, in his book entitled The New World Order (1939)

Ryno · Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 72

When people are referring to communism are they speaking of Stalinism? I really hope not, because anyone who has done any research about the USSR, knows the government they had has totally against what REAL communism is, which calls for the "common ownership" of production. Stalinist communism seems more like the government United States, with the control in a few peoples hands (Corporations).

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

Ryno wrote: When people are referring to communism are they speaking of Stalinism? I really hope not, because anyone who has done any research about the USSR, knows the government they had has totally against what REAL communism is, which calls for the "common ownership" of production. Stalinist communism seems more like the government United States, with the control in a few peoples hands (Corporations).

WORLD SOCIALISTS CALL FOR WORLD GOVERNMENT
http://www.newswithviews.com/Lamb/henry8.htm

Ryno · Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 72

I don’t see how you think true democracy is a bad thing....well maybe if you work for some fortune 500 company, and don’t give a s**t about 38 million Americans that you to bed hungry every night, not to mention the rest of the worlds problems (most of them due to capitalistic exploitation.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

pedagogue wrote: What really did in the Soviet Union was the practice of our developing a new aircraft prototype, for which the Soviet Union would respond to that prototype with whole operational squadrons ... it bankrupted them. I mean evertime that the Soviet Union almost got to the point they could crow about something, we'd toss out another aircraft prototype that we had absolutely no intention of developing but that would keep the Soviet Union so tied up in knots to keep up that they couldn't do much else. What was really funny was how many times we threw the Osprey at them ... and they responded just like Pavlov's dog.

Then a funny thing happened under Bush ... Bush made the Osprey operational. I mean, geez, what a dolt! We could have used the Osprey well into the 21st century doing just exactly the same.
Where do you think the Soviets got money to produce those planes in the first place?

The money masters control everything..

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Ryno wrote: I don’t see how you think true democracy is a bad thing....well maybe if you work for some fortune 500 company, and don’t give a s**t about 38 million Americans that you to bed hungry every night, not to mention the rest of the worlds problems (most of them due to capitalistic exploitation.
True democracy is a terrible thing, b/c there are no checks and balances on power..

To a greater or lesser extent, we kinda have true democracy in the U.S.. Fortune 500 companies can only thrive and flourish in a true democracy, b/c in a democracy, the "needs" of masses take precedence over everything else, and here in this country the masses have proved that they only things they need to stay happy are football games on Sunday, lots of beer, lots of TV, spending more than they can afford, etc, etc. No matter how many Third World nations the military must destroy, so long as the military is "working" to sustain the gluttonous American (read, "democratic") lifestyle, then it's the *patriotic* thing to do!

w/o such an ignorant consumer base off which to build, the Fortune 500 would be toast.. They thrive on the greed and gluttony of the American masses, and they thrive on the fact that the American masses are too lazy to go out and build a better mousetrap themselves, and offer up some competition for these mega-corporations. Democracy breeds both of these decadent character traits.. These mega-corporations THRIVE on democracy.. they'd be dead w/o democracy..

danyabrat_ru · Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Ufa, Bashkiria

as far as I know, Reagan made prices for oil drop which bankrupted soviet oil-dependent economy...
It wasn't reagan's big achievement. What kind of a "superpower" USSR was if it collapsed together with prices for raw materials?...

thefranzkafkafront · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:54 am Post subject:

You really need to stop quoting and citeing your own site, or something so bias it acucutally admits it such as 'newswithviews.com' if your ever going to be taken seriously.

Kindred · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:34 am Post subject:

psholtz wrote: Ryno wrote: I don’t see how you think true democracy is a bad thing....well maybe if you work for some fortune 500 company, and don’t give a s**t about 38 million Americans that you to bed hungry every night, not to mention the rest of the worlds problems (most of them due to capitalistic exploitation.
True democracy is a terrible thing, b/c there are no checks and balances on power..

To a greater or lesser extent, we kinda have true democracy in the U.S.. Fortune 500 companies can only thrive and flourish in a true democracy, b/c in a democracy, the "needs" of masses take precedence over everything else, and here in this country the masses have proved that they only things they need to stay happy are football games on Sunday, lots of beer, lots of TV, spending more than they can afford, etc, etc. No matter how many Third World nations the military must destroy, so long as the military is "working" to sustain the gluttonous American (read, "democratic") lifestyle, then it's the *patriotic* thing to do!
..

You’re not talking about democracy as a political system here Paul, what you’re referring to is market transaction (i.e. the expression of gluttony through crass consumerism-a market transaction): consumer democracy at best, but probably better termed simply a relatively ‘free market’. In order to alter peoples purchasing habits, you have to regulate the economic system, it has very little to do with the political system (except in the sense that political powers refrain from telling people what to purchase).

I too feel that crass consumerism is a massive problem, for the earth, as well as for the human mind, but I seriously do not link crass consumerism (which is the expression of habitualised growth fetishism), with the electoral process of voting in leaders (though I also agree that un-checked democracy would be a unwise)

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

buddha wrote: Robodoon wrote:

20 years ago the Soviets had a more technological advance Military then we did, and we funded it..

Again you don't know what your taking about. In the 80's the USSR and it's allies had a numerical advantage over the US and it's allies. The USSR only had a technological advantage in electronic warfare in the early 80's, but by the mid to late eighties the US has surpassed the USSR their too. Some of the USSR's weapon were mechanically better (AK-47 for one), as in better reliability, but that is different then having a technological advantage.

During Clintongs reign who was making our Cruise Missiles? Russia. We have continued to give them tech

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

Ryno wrote: I don’t see how you think true democracy is a bad thing....well maybe if you work for some fortune 500 company, and don’t give a s**t about 38 million Americans that you to bed hungry every night, not to mention the rest of the worlds problems (most of them due to capitalistic exploitation.

The Great Capitalists are the ones removing capitalism from the rust of us today. Democracy is MOB RULE, its 3 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. The Best system was the USA Constitutional Republic, with is now dying...being traded for something Communist love, not free people.

Quote: "More socialism means more democracy, openness and collectivism in everyday life..."
Mikhail Gorbachev Perestroika - New Thinking for Our Country and the World 1988

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

danyabrat_ru wrote: as far as I know, Reagan made prices for oil drop which bankrupted soviet oil-dependent economy...
It wasn't reagan's big achievement. What kind of a "superpower" USSR was if it collapsed together with prices for raw materials?...

its all a game.

Robodoon · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5027 Location: Lakeport

thefranzkafkafront wrote: You really need to stop quoting and citeing your own site, or something so bias it acucutally admits it such as 'newswithviews.com' if your ever going to be taken seriously.

What you don't think the MSM is biased?

Personally I'm completely Biased, I don't find anything wrong with that at all. The truth is not fair and balenced, but half truths and lies are much of the time. The truth is intolerent ;)