Political Crossfire Forums

[JimT]

Hi,

Sura 4.157 says: "And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure."

My first question: why is Jesus called "the Messiah"? I've heard that it had something to do with the verb "to rub". Some say it has something to do with "touching". Others say it has something to do with his feet. Can you explain?

My second question: what does "messiah" mean in Arabic? I'm very curious.

Thanks in advance!

[pharaoh]

click me

[JimT]

Hi Pharao,
pharaoh wrote: click me

Thank you for your quick reply. It is very interesting! But seems also a little bit contradictory, because on the one hand, Islam accepts the Jewish belief that there were prophecies about the coming of the Messiah, but says that Christians gave a new meaning to the title "The Messiah". On the other hand, Islam accepts the Christian claim that Jesus was the expected Messiah, though Judaism rejects this because Jesus did not fulfill these prophecies.

Does this mean that Islam believes that Jesus DID fulfill the Messianic prophecies? If not, how come that Islam accepts both: 1) the Jewish belief that there were prophecies about the coming Messiah (which Jesus did not fulfill) and 2) That Jesus was the expected Messiah?

Thanks,
Jim

[pharaoh]

JimT wrote: Hi Pharao,
pharaoh wrote: click me

Thank you for your quick reply. It is very interesting! But seems also a little bit contradictory, because on the one hand, Islam accepts the Jewish belief that there were prophecies about the coming of the Messiah, but says that Christians gave a new meaning to the title "The Messiah". On the other hand, Islam accepts the Christian claim that Jesus was the expected Messiah, though Judaism rejects this because Jesus did not fulfill these prophecies.

Does this mean that Islam believes that Jesus DID fulfill the Messianic prophecies? If not, how come that Islam accepts both: 1) the Jewish belief that there were prophecies about the coming Messiah (which Jesus did not fulfill) and 2) That Jesus was the expected Messiah?

Thanks,
Jim

There are no contradictions really, maybe the author made it sound a little confusing. Yes there were prophecies about Jesus, nevertheless, alof of Jews didnt follow him, but alot others believed in the prophecies and did follow him.
Now Im not sure what are all the prophecies that Jesus had to fulfill, especially if your talking about building the temple or others things like that. However, put in mind that the Jews modified alot of passages from their holy book, just like the Christians, so alot of the things that the Jews say that Jesus did not fulfil were actually fabricated by them.
I hope that helped you a bit.

[Glorfindel]

Jesus in Islam has not yet fullfilled his mission... we believe that in the end of days, Jesus come back to earth and will fight the antichrist and kill him and then will lead muslims in another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..

[JimT]

Glorfindel wrote: Jesus in Islam has not yet fullfilled his mission... we believe that in the end of days, Jesus come back to earth and will fight the antichrist and kill him and then will lead muslims in another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..

Hi Glorfindel,
Very intersting. Do you know in which surah I can find what you wrote?

[Glorfindel]

you will find more historical information about Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajooj in surat alkahf

you will have to refer to the prophet's Hadiths to get the source of the information i wrote in my first post

I hope I was helpful

good luck

[JimT]

Glorfindel wrote: you will find more historical information about Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajooj in surat alkahf

you will have to refer to the prophet's Hadiths to get the source of the information i wrote in my first post

I hope I was helpful

good luck
Hi Glorfindel,
Thank you again. You were very helpful. I find this interesting because three religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) have different views about the Messiah/Moshiach/Masih. However, when Jesus (pbuh) returns and fulfilles all the prophecies as you mentioned, then our religions will agree.

Glorfindel wrote: (...) another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..
This sounds like the Moshiach ben David (pbuh). Does the Quran also mention the Temple of the end time?

I have an additional question. The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prophesied about Imam Mahdi (pbuh) -- the most important person in the End-times. Is Imam Mahdi the same person as Isa, the messiah (pbuh)?

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: when Jesus (pbuh) returns and fulfilles all the prophecies as you mentioned, then our religions will agree.

I think you are correct, JimT.

[cap'n queasy]

Glorfindel wrote: Jesus in Islam has not yet fullfilled his mission... we believe that in the end of days, Jesus come back to earth and will fight the antichrist and kill him and then will lead muslims in another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..

Glorfindel, who or what do most Islamics think Gog and Magog is?

[pharaoh]

cap'n queasy wrote: Glorfindel wrote: Jesus in Islam has not yet fullfilled his mission... we believe that in the end of days, Jesus come back to earth and will fight the antichrist and kill him and then will lead muslims in another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..

Glorfindel, who or what do most Islamics think Gog and Magog is?

I can tell you what I know if you want. (until Glorfindel comes back and answer your question).

[cap'n queasy]

pharaoh wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Glorfindel wrote: Jesus in Islam has not yet fullfilled his mission... we believe that in the end of days, Jesus come back to earth and will fight the antichrist and kill him and then will lead muslims in another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..

Glorfindel, who or what do most Islamics think Gog and Magog is?

I can tell you what I know if you want. (until Glorfindel comes back and answer your question).

Sure. That would be fine.

[Glorfindel]

JimT wrote: Glorfindel wrote: you will find more historical information about Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajooj in surat alkahf

you will have to refer to the prophet's Hadiths to get the source of the information i wrote in my first post

I hope I was helpful

good luck
Hi Glorfindel,
Thank you again. You were very helpful. I find this interesting because three religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) have different views about the Messiah/Moshiach/Masih. However, when Jesus (pbuh) returns and fulfilles all the prophecies as you mentioned, then our religions will agree.

Glorfindel wrote: (...) another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..
This sounds like the Moshiach ben David (pbuh). Does the Quran also mention the Temple of the end time?

I have an additional question. The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prophesied about Imam Mahdi (pbuh) -- the most important person in the End-times. Is Imam Mahdi the same person as Isa, the messiah (pbuh)?

i dont know who mashiach ben david is or the temple of end time ... you are gonna have to give me more information because they might be mentioned in other names , in their arabic-derived names

AlMahdi is not Isa (Jesus) ..he is a different person .. he is the one who will lead muslims into many wars.. he will fight other rulers and will face alot of hardship in his time..

he also will be the leader of the defending muslim army against the antichrist and his army ( AlMasihk Aldajjal) .. he will defend Damascus until Isa descends from the sky

Isa will descend from the sky when muslims are about to pray and when AlMahdi sees him he will step back leaving the place of Imam for Jesus to lead the muslims in their prayers but Isa will ask him to lead and he will pray shoulder by shoulder with other muslims

after that when the antichrist sees Isa, he will flee and starts to melt like salt until Isa kills him with a spear

after that, Ya'ajooj and Ma'jooj will appear and muslims will have to run away with Isa and Almahdi to a fortified place and be sieged by the amries of Ya'joo and Ma'jooj ..

ya'jooj nd Ma'jooj are described as two tribes of tremendous numbers and strenght who will eat and drink everything and anything

their number are so huge that when the last of their army reaches the lake of Tabaria , they will say " there used to be a lake here" because the lake will be drain before the last part of the army gets a chance to drink from it

after a while , they they start to think they have killed and beaten everybody on earth , they will say " we have killed all who live on earth, lets kill those who live in the sky" and they will start tothrowing they spears to the sky and their spears on fall down drenched with blood

then Allah will kill them with tiny creatures that kill them all off like a plague

i think i went a bit far.. lol .. hope it answered questions that were going to be asked eventually

if you got anyother questions... i'd be glad to answer them

Salam

[Glorfindel]

cap'n queasy wrote: Glorfindel wrote: Jesus in Islam has not yet fullfilled his mission... we believe that in the end of days, Jesus come back to earth and will fight the antichrist and kill him and then will lead muslims in another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..

Glorfindel, who or what do most Islamics think Gog and Magog is?

I think I answered your question in my reply to JimT's post

I'd recommend to check this threat later to see what Pharoah might have to add

[eynon]

Glorfindel wrote: Jesus in Islam has not yet fullfilled his mission... we believe that in the end of days, Jesus come back to earth and will fight the antichrist and kill him and then will lead muslims in another war against Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog ( some believe that Ya'ajooj and Ma'ajoog are mentioned in the bible as Gog and Magog in the bible) and beat them then rule for a while..then he will die.. as all humans do..

:shock: wow! I didn't know that.....that's facinating, great thread btw, I'm learning a lot :-D

[cap'n queasy]

Very interesting.

[Glorfindel]

yeah you would be surprised of how Islam pictures Jesus and how his story is told in the holy Quran and the Hadiths of Prophet Mohammed

if you got any questions, I'd be glad to answer

[GrowHydro]

Its also important to understand that prior to Jesus, there had been previous failed "messiahs". However most had prefered a military route, and were armed resistance movements. Jesus did many of the things in the way he did, for example riding in on a donkey from the East, and There are also questions regarding some of the contradicting/missing details of his birth(this is not a unique occurence among the books making up the modern Christian Bible) like traveling to Bethlehem, perhaps being told in its way to fit known prophecies, and so garnering support for his mission. He had meditated upon his game plan, and had all of his actions planned ahead of time to garner the most attention as he possibly could, as others have before him.