Political Crossfire Forums

[dcoltonbrown]

has one canadian addressed the issue of Canada stomping on their personal liberties...or did they get stuck in the anti-american thread?

[Canada_Rocks]

dcoltonbrown wrote: has one canadian addressed the issue of Canada stomping on their personal liberties...or did they get stuck in the anti-american thread?

I think we got stuck in an anti-Canadian thread :lol: :wink:

[mrster]

Simple why Canadian eavsdropping is so so different from the American counterpart.

Ahem:

Federal law. In the US, the feds have their own jurisdiction. The feds can investigate, charge, prosecute and judge an individual with so overnight.

In Canada, there is no federal system. So even if the governemnt listens in, they can't prosecute charges themselves. This is democracy in truth, checks and balances, and what the american system has is outright tyrany.

Irregardless, prison terms are less than 10% of time you americans get, so there is not as much to fear... basically it comes down to this: the US government is a vindictive overzealous bastard that despises it's own citizens..... the Canadian government is a prying, annoying fellow who'd rather not hurt anyone, let alone it's own citizens, but will only do so in extreme cases when the vindictive overzealous bastard to the south demands it!

There is no logical reason for your federal system, and most federal judges will tell you (as they do in the media all the time) that the federal system is inherantly unfair, and shows little if any shadows of so called justice.

THATS why you don't hear outcry from Canadians. Similarly, you don't hear British complain about cameras on their streets... simply because bobbies don't carry guns, don't beat up people because their black, and don't find it amusing to set up cops looking like prostitutes so they can ruin families.

In other words, the cops in britain are human beings, the cops in the USA are animals on a power trip and would use those cameras in every way they could.

Finally, Canada doesn't pass s**t like "THE PATRIOT ACT", an extreme act that keep growing and being molded by your penis in chief.... it screams Nationalism. Candians are simply using methods that were already enacted long ago.

[gary the cheater]

dcoltonbrown wrote: has one canadian addressed the issue of Canada stomping on their personal liberties...or did they get stuck in the anti-american thread?


colton have you even read the canadian constitution? which liberties are you talking about and please explain who is doing the stomping.

[Thrilla]

gary the cheater wrote: dcoltonbrown wrote: has one canadian addressed the issue of Canada stomping on their personal liberties...or did they get stuck in the anti-american thread?


colton have you even read the canadian constitution? which liberties are you talking about and please explain who is doing the stomping. ive never read the Canadian Constitution... but are you saying that Canadians arent protected from spying by the government?

[gary the cheater]

Thrilla wrote: gary the cheater wrote: dcoltonbrown wrote: has one canadian addressed the issue of Canada stomping on their personal liberties...or did they get stuck in the anti-american thread?


colton have you even read the canadian constitution? which liberties are you talking about and please explain who is doing the stomping.

ive never read the Canadian Constitution... but are you saying that Canadians arent protected from spying by the government?

no i'm saying that psychos that want to blow up the metro are not protected from spying by the government.


Quote: It shall be lawful for the Queen, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate and House of Commons, to make Laws for the Peace, Order, and good Government of Canada British North America Act, 1867 (canadian constitution)

Quote: Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15 of this Charter. charter of rights and freedoms, 1982 (canadian bill of rights)

[Thrilla]

Quote: no i'm saying that psychos that want to blow up the metro are not protected from spying by the government. as it should be.. thanks for clarifying

[bassman]

all i have to say is why is canada so much better than america?

last i heard people were not rushing in overcrouded ships to get to canada people weren't sailing trechorous seas on a pool raft to breath the sweet free air of the canadian plain. and mostly i never remeber hearing a peson say how greatly they succeded in a socialist mediocer scociaty.

the must have been talking about an other country. but i don't know.

[[Bible]Monkey]

bassman wrote: all i have to say is why is canada so much better than america?

It isn't better, bassman. It is slightly different than America, that's all. The difference(s) are disappearing , though, with the major Corporations painting the landmass. The Patriot Act has a litttle brother , more innocuosly and less-enthusiastically named Bill C-36 ( hit next page , lower left ) . It's a little less invasive ( in a Country used to mildly combating Government interference) than the Patriot Act, more innocuously named so that it passed the Canadian Parliament with much less fanfare than the "Patriot Act" travelled through its cousin to the south.

The two near-simultaneous acts of the two countries indicate a melding in intelligence gathering , which is practicable.

The announcements , and the reactions are quite different, however. An almost unnoticed, quiet announcement in Canada, little stirring the populace-who are not neccesarily only used to usually benevelont ( and unnoticed) government intervention , and in the US-a similiar Law, drawing loud noises. Each with a similiar result, though. The Government of each nation has got their way. And that's the bottom line.

Quote: First Session, Thirty-seventh Parliament,
49-50 Elizabeth II, 2001



HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA




BILL C-36


An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Official Secrets Act, the Canada Evidence Act, the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) Act and other Acts, and to enact measures respecting the registration of charities, in order to combat terrorism....


bassman wrote: last i heard people were not rushing in overcrouded ships to get to canada people weren't sailing trechorous seas on a pool raft to breath the sweet free air of the canadian plain. and mostly i never remeber hearing a peson say how greatly they succeded in a socialist mediocer scociaty.

I think that you have heard wrong-not that it's that important. But Canadas population is growing to a far greater degree by immigration, ( as opposed to natural citizen birth ) than is the U.S. The U. S prefers to increase its' population the old-fashioned , biological way, with less "per capita " immigration than occurs in Canada.

bassman wrote: the must have been talking about an other country. but i don't know.

Tommorow, we'll talk about Bill C-234 ( as well as C-36) , and a few other bills which don't get enough voter attention in North America .

Ottawa seeks wiretap access to spy on criminals

Quote: New legislation that will enable authorities to conduct surveillance on e-mails and telephone calls won't step on civil rights, Prime Minister Paul Martin insists.

"When the government brings forth this kind of legislation obviously the question of civil rights is first and foremost in our minds and they will be protected," Martin told reporters during a visit to Toronto Tuesday.

The Lawful Access Bill, which will be introduced in the House of Commons next month, requires telecommunications companies to install high-tech equipment capable of intercepting exchanges.

The government insists their proposals will bring Canada's laws on wiretaps up to date and will mean police will be able to keep up with organized criminals who are using high-tech to get around wiretaps.

"We're not giving the police any new powers, it's just keeping up with the technology and keeping up with the criminals," Ontario Liberal MP Roy Cullen told CTV News.

Winnipeg Police Chief Jack Ewatski said it was time to "play catch-up."

"There are people in our society who are looking at Canada as an intercept-free safe haven, and we don't want that to be the case," he said.

The new technology would give police and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, Canada's spy agency, the ability to intercept the e-mail, Internet chat, telephone and cell phone conversations of thousands of people at a time.

The United States has already adopted similar legislation.

[Canada_Rocks]

mrster wrote: Simple why Canadian eavsdropping is so so different from the American counterpart.

Ahem:

Federal law. In the US, the feds have their own jurisdiction. The feds can investigate, charge, prosecute and judge an individual with so overnight.

In Canada, there is no federal system. So even if the governemnt listens in, they can't prosecute charges themselves. This is democracy in truth, checks and balances, and what the american system has is outright tyrany.

Irregardless, prison terms are less than 10% of time you americans get, so there is not as much to fear... basically it comes down to this: the US government is a vindictive overzealous bastard that despises it's own citizens..... the Canadian government is a prying, annoying fellow who'd rather not hurt anyone, let alone it's own citizens, but will only do so in extreme cases when the vindictive overzealous bastard to the south demands it!

There is no logical reason for your federal system, and most federal judges will tell you (as they do in the media all the time) that the federal system is inherantly unfair, and shows little if any shadows of so called justice.

THATS why you don't hear outcry from Canadians. Similarly, you don't hear British complain about cameras on their streets... simply because bobbies don't carry guns, don't beat up people because their black, and don't find it amusing to set up cops looking like prostitutes so they can ruin families.

In other words, the cops in britain are human beings, the cops in the USA are animals on a power trip and would use those cameras in every way they could.

Finally, Canada doesn't pass s**t like "THE PATRIOT ACT", an extreme act that keep growing and being molded by your penis in chief.... it screams Nationalism. Candians are simply using methods that were already enacted long ago.

Do you remember the FLQ and the War measures act? We we have to, we can clamp down like a steel vice on a banana.

[DavidXV]

Happy New Year!

[CanaGirl]

"all i have to say is why is canada so much better than america?

last i heard people were not rushing in overcrouded ships to get to canada people weren't sailing trechorous seas on a pool raft to breath the sweet free air of the canadian plain. and mostly i never remeber hearing a peson say how greatly they succeded in a socialist mediocer scociaty.

the must have been talking about an other country. but i don't know."

Perhaps it's our superior spelling? I see that there is a handy-dandy little SpelChek button right here next to the submit button.... what could that do? Prevent you from looking ignorant perhaps? I hear we have great schools here on the Canadian Plains, as well as sweet free air.

[Canada_Rocks]

Oh crap dcoltonbrown,

It's another Canadian and it's a female to boot.

Colton, Your 2 worst enemies combined into one arch-nemesis.

A Canadian Woman

Welcome to the forum CanaGirl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Canada_Rocks]

Thrilla wrote: gary the cheater wrote: dcoltonbrown wrote: has one canadian addressed the issue of Canada stomping on their personal liberties...or did they get stuck in the anti-american thread?


colton have you even read the canadian constitution? which liberties are you talking about and please explain who is doing the stomping. ive never read the Canadian Constitution... but are you saying that Canadians arent protected from spying by the government?

Any law passed by our house and senate is considered "constitutional"

We do have a constitution, spread out within dozons of documents. One of the most well known is section 91 and 92 which lay out the responsibilities of the provinces and the federal government. Another important part is called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (part of the Constitutional Act of 1982) which is similar to your Bill of rights. Even though those are considered the blood and guts of our constitution, other laws which are passed are still just as valid. Any laws that are passed cannot clash or contradict previous law. An example would be our gay marriage law. In order to remove that law from our constitution the government would have to enact the Notwithstanding Clause (the last article in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms) which indefinately overturns a Right. This is accomplished by a House and Senate "free vote". A vote of non-convidence may ensue if the notwithsatnding vote fails which may result in the government colapsing. Also if the decision to revoke the Right is unpopular amongst voters, the party that initiated and voted for the Notwithstanding vote would not be re-elected. Another way is to hold a national plebicite amongst all the constituancies in the country and a 60 percent "yes" must be reached for the law to be revoked.

I think the Notwithsatnding Clause ws only used once or twic over the history of Canada due to it's unpopularity and the difficulty in getting it passed in the house of commons and the senate.

Even though we don't quote or parade around our constitution as much as Americans, we take our rights and freedoms very seriously. At least, I do.

So basicaly no, we are not protected, but any law passed for or against spying would be considered constitutional.

Quote:
Under the Charter all individuals also enjoy the following rights:

democratic rights: the right to participate in political activities, to vote and to be elected to political office and similar rights:
Section 3: right to vote and serve as member of a legislature
Section 4: maximum duration of legislature
Section 5: annual sitting required
mobility rights (section 6): the right to enter and leave Canada, and to move to and take up residence in any province or to reside outside Canada
legal rights: the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, the right to retain a lawyer and to be informed of that right, and the right to an interpreter in a court proceeding are examples. In full, they are:
Section 7: life, liberty, and security of the person
Section 8: unreasonable search and seizure prohibited
Section 9: arbitrary detention prohibited
Section 10: rights on arrest or detention
Section 11: rights in criminal and penal matters
Section 12: cruel and unusual punishment prohibited
Section 13: right not to incriminate oneself
Section 14: right to an interpreter
equality rights (section 15): equal treatment before and under the law, and equal protection and benefit of the law without discrimination
language rights: generally, the right to use either the English or French languages in communications with Canada's federal government and certain provincial governments. Specifically, these rights include:
Section 16: English and French as official languages of Canada and New Brunswick
Section 16.1: English New Brunswick and French New Brunswick are equal
Section 17: right to use either official language in Parliament and the New Brunswick legislature
Section 18: statutes and proceedings of Parliament and the New Brunswick legislature to be printed in both official languages
Section 19: both official languages may be used in federal and New Brunswick courts
Section 20: right to communicate with and be served by the federal and New Brunswick governments in either official language
Section 21: existing constitutional provisions continued
Section 22: existing rights to use other languages not affected
minority language education rights (Section 23): generally, French and English-speaking minorities in every province and territory have the right to be educated in their own language
notwithstanding clause (section 33): [i]33. (1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15.
(2) An Act or a provision of an Act in respect of which a declaration made under this section is in effect shall have such operation as it would have but for the provision of this Charter referred to in the declaration.
(3) A declaration made under subsection (1) shall cease to have effect five years after it comes into force or on such earlier date as may be specified in the declaration.
(4) Parliament or the legislature of a province may re-enact a declaration made under subsection (1).
(5) Subsection (3) applies in respect of a re-enactment made under subsection (4). [/1]

Other sections that help understand how the Charter works in practice include:

Section 24: enforcement of Charter rights
Section 25: the Charter does not derogate existing Aboriginal rights and freedoms
Section 26: other rights and freedoms in Canada not affected
Section 27: Charter to be interpreted in a multicultural context
Section 28: all Charter rights guaranteed equally to men and women
Section 29: rights of religious schools preserved
Section 30: references to provinces include territories
Section 31: The Charter does not extend the rights of legislatures
Section 32: application of the Charter
Section 34: citation (ie., this section states that the first 34 sections of the Constitution Act, 1982 may be collectively referred to as the "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms").

[Boondoggle]

bassman wrote: all i have to say is why is canada so much better than america?

last i heard people were not rushing in overcrouded ships to get to canada people weren't sailing trechorous seas on a pool raft to breath the sweet free air of the canadian plain. and mostly i never remeber hearing a peson say how greatly they succeded in a socialist mediocer scociaty.

the must have been talking about an other country. but i don't know.

Perhaps you're just running into Canadians that have as much pride in their country as you have in yours?

It's funny how Canada is criticized for being too lax on immigration, yet it's apparently a place that nobody wants to move to. Which is it? I'll clear that one up for you with a couple quick examples:

Quote: The Russian family hoping to make Lunenburg their home has been granted temporary resident status.

Vitaly Bondarenko, wife Marina and their two boys have been living aboard their sailboat in Bermuda while the paperwork required for them to live in Canada is processed.

Now, immigration officials have granted the Bondarenkos temporary resident status, which means they can sail to Lunenburg and work as their citizenship applications are handled.

http://www.cbc.ca/ns/story/ns-bondarenkos20051014.html

Quote: 150,000 people become citizens every year.

Immigrants account for 17 per cent of Canada's population.

Only Australia surpasses Canada in terms of the immigrant percentage: 21.1 per cent.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/becomingcanadian/overview.html

Keep in mind that's LEGAL immigration before you consider comparing it to something like your situation with Mexico.

As for success, immigrants do have problems with getting credentials recognized, which is an election issue by the way, but that has nothing to do with what you call "socialist mediocer scociaty".

Here's an example of success from an Iranian refugee that became one of the youngest professors at the University of Toronto.

http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~parham/
http://www.apl.utoronto.ca/news/news.html

He also won an award from MIT, and could have had his pick of several American universities to work for, but he chose to stay in Canada.

The current and previous governor generals for Canada have been refugees too.

There are challenges, but the same can be said for people born here, and if you work hard at it, you can achieve success in Canada just as you can in the US, but it depends on what you want out of life.

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about which country is better, but I'm glad to call Canada home, and I will correct your false statements.

[The Perplexed One]

watch some reruns of Rick Mercer's trip to America and you'll see why, LOL!

[gary the cheater]

rick mercer!!! prime minister jean poutine endorses geogre "dubya" bush

http://www.funnyhub.com/videos/video.cgi/poutine-endorses-bush

[Trajan]

Canada_rocks wrote: gary the cheater wrote: dcoltonbrown wrote: Americans...this should outrage you!

:gmo: :gmo: :gmo: :gmo:

The funny thing, nobody but colton cares,

COLTON, stop creating Candian threads and pretending you are lookign for a serious discusion. We all know you are full of it. You can't expect us to take you seriously.

What did you Canadians do to this guy? This is as bad as Sublime's Clinton kick.

[The Perplexed One]

I think Colt is harbouring a deep desire to move to our side of the continent.

[Thrilla]

The Perplexed One wrote: I think Colt is harbouring a deep desire to move to our side of the continent. of course he is.... but i think he want to show up in a tank rather than a moving van :lol: